• French Legislative elections & results
    48 replies, posted
[QUOTE=pierre0158;52346736]spotted the leftie[/QUOTE] Spotted the rightie then, I suppose.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52346818]Spotted the rightie then, I suppose.[/QUOTE] I think we are really good at guessing eachother political convictions; maybe we should work in the police
[QUOTE=pierre0158;52346826]I think we are really good at guessing eachother political convictions; maybe we should work in the police[/QUOTE] Shouldn't be too hard to find work there considering the state of emergency is going to be incorporated into common law.
Dunno if i'll be able to do another year where i work, thanks Macron.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52346496]Seeing as the current government wants to keep going in the direction the previous one took concerning labour, I doubt it's going to lead to constructive reforms. [editline]12th June 2017[/editline] Current regulations aren't anywhere close to killing companies' profit margins. They do make them less competitive than abroad where worker's rights are weaker, but that doesn't mean we should take part in a race to the bottom to compete with neoliberal countries.[/QUOTE] 1. Competing with neoliberal countries =/ a race to the bottom. Unless you consider german and british labour laws as the bottom of the barrel. 2. Let's just assume exactly that the cause of the massive youth unemployment is that France is not a country companies are as interested in doing business in as others. What do you tell them? "Sorry guys. I can't handle 40 hour work weeks?"* or "Nah. I have to keep being invulnerable to layoffs." * The funny thing about France is that despite it having a 35 hour maximum work week legally. The workers on average still work more hours than British workers. There's other potential ideas such as improving education, as low-skill workers in france are absolutely fucked, but there is such a thing as overeducation and honestly France might already be there. So that probably won't work either.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52347592]1. Competing with neoliberal countries =/ a race to the bottom. Unless you consider german and british labour laws as the bottom of the barrel.[/QUOTE] They're certainly not at the top of it. Just because they aren't China tier shit doesn't mean we should lower our standards to their level. Why should we give up the rights we acquired through sweat and blood over centuries of social struggle? Streamlining labour rights is one thing, gutting them is another. [QUOTE]2. Let's just assume exactly that the cause of the massive youth unemployment is that France is not a country companies are as interested in doing business in as others. What do you tell them? "Sorry guys. I can't handle 40 hour work weeks?"* or "Nah. I have to keep being invulnerable to layoffs."[/QUOTE] Massive youth unemployment? [t]http://i.imgur.com/HnAexki.png[/t] Not sure what you're getting at here. We're certainly not the best but quite a few EU countries have it as bad or worse than us. As usual, unemployment figures also don't quite show the differences in standard of living so I don't see the point of flatly comparing France with the UK for instance where zero hour contracts reduce unemployment but increase precarity. There are also other ways to entice companies to do business in your country, like subsidizing innovation or providing a skilled workforce. Gutting workers' rights is not an absolute necessity.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52347666]They're certainly not at the top of it. Just because they aren't China tier shit doesn't mean we should lower our standards to their level. Why should we give up the rights we acquired through sweat and blood over centuries of social struggle? Streamlining labour rights is one thing, gutting them is another. Massive youth unemployment? [t]http://i.imgur.com/HnAexki.png[/t] Not sure what you're getting at here. We're certainly not the best but quite a few EU countries have it as bad or worse than us. There are also other ways to entice companies to do business in your country, like subsidizing innovation or providing a skilled workforce.[/QUOTE] That's a pretty meh map as it does not provide enough demarcation. Germany is at 7%, which is radically different from France's 22%. UK 12%. Ireland 12%. Not being a disaster like the Mediterranean countries isn't much of an accomplishment. Comparisons to Eastern Europe and Greece probably aren't a good idea. We can throw in some more things relevant to that demographic too such as the amount who have given up looking for work but want a job (1.5 mio total all ages,) there's also a lot of temporary and part time work people are having to take. The overall unemployment rate is 9.6% atm but one has to also take into account that the natural rate of unemployment for France is going to be higher than normal. Along with that, people aged 25-54 (prime age) are more employed at a pretty decent rate compared to [URL="https://data.oecd.org/emp/employment-rate-by-age-group.htm"]other countries [/URL]. So that is how I get to youth unemployment being quite the nasty issue in the French economy. Along with that what I've been told is that it is that demographic who had high turnout for populists like Melenchon and Le Pen, which is a large sign of, at the very least, anxiety. I fail to see the difference between "streamlining" and "gutting," aside from the diction used to imply something is bad. Those can help but: The solution of delivering a skilled workforce is a bit dubious, and this relates to the overeducation issue. You can't just stick everyone into university and expect them to get jobs from it because those fields have limited demand as well. (e.g. in the US scientists are above capacity.) There'd be a big case for it if France had an issue regarding education but according to tertiary education stats France is doing just fine. [thumb]https://i.imgur.com/t2YLjw3.png[/thumb] Of course there might be more to it than just the rate of which people have post-secondary education. French workers are among the most productive in the world though so I don't know what it would be. Subsidies can help but they aren't some great long-term antidote to lethargy, they're best for social causes (e.g. clean energy) and to dig a country out of a recession (which already happened.) There's also a lot of subsidies in place though I can't find specific numbers as whatever I can find is in French. France also has a relatively high amount of debt so it's risky as well to go for the "throw more money at it" option.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52348006]That's a pretty meh map as it does not provide enough demarcation. Germany is at 7%, which is radically different from France's 22%. UK 12%. Ireland 12%. Not being a disaster like the Mediterranean countries isn't much of an accomplishment. Comparisons to Eastern Europe and Greece probably aren't a good idea. We can throw in some more things relevant to that demographic too such as the amount who have given up looking for work but want a job (1.5 mio total all ages,) there's also a lot of temporary and part time work people are having to take. The overall unemployment rate is 9.6% atm but one has to also take into account that the natural rate of unemployment for France is going to be higher than normal. Along with that, people aged 25-54 (prime age) are more employed at a pretty decent rate compared to [URL="https://data.oecd.org/emp/employment-rate-by-age-group.htm"]other countries [/URL]. So that is how I get to youth unemployment being quite the nasty issue in the French economy. Along with that what I've been told is that it is that demographic who had high turnout for populists like Melenchon and Le Pen, which is a large sign of, at the very least, anxiety.[/QUOTE] Again, that does indicate there is a problem to an extent, but if you want to actually show it's much worse than the rest of the EU you have to compare more than simple unemployment rates. Also I don't think Sweden and Finland are part of Eastern Europe. [QUOTE]I fail to see the difference between "streamlining" and "gutting," aside from the diction used to imply something is bad.[/QUOTE] Streamlining means removing unnecessary redundancies, gutting means outright removing or lowering standards. [QUOTE]Those can help but: The solution of delivering a skilled workforce is a bit dubious, and this relates to the overeducation issue. You can't just stick everyone into university and expect them to get jobs from it because those fields have limited demand as well. (e.g. in the US scientists are above capacity.) There'd be a big case for it if France had an issue regarding education but according to tertiary education stats France is doing just fine. [thumb]https://i.imgur.com/t2YLjw3.png[/thumb] Of course there might be more to it than just the rate of which people have post-secondary education. French workers are among the most productive in the world though so I don't know what it would be.[/QUOTE] I wasn't referring to tertiary education, access to higher education isn't really an issue in France, the problem is rather that fields with high demand like trades get disregarded because of the associated stigma in favor of less marketable degrees, or marketable but highly competitive fields like medical school which leaves a large amount of students behind. It's funny that you mention productivity, perhaps the French are too productive? I mean, if we were lazier, companies would have to hire more of us to achieve the same tasks. I'm saying this as a joke but if we were to do the opposite by lengthening working hours like you're suggesting, wouldn't that actually increase unemployment?
[QUOTE=_Axel;52348223]Again, that does indicate there is a problem to an extent, but if you want to actually show it's much worse than the rest of the EU you have to compare more than simple unemployment rates. Also I don't think Sweden and Finland are part of Eastern Europe. Streamlining means removing unnecessary redundancies, gutting means outright removing or lowering standards. I wasn't referring to tertiary education, access to higher education isn't really an issue in France, the problem is rather that fields with high demand like trades get disregarded because of the associated stigma in favor of less marketable degrees, or marketable but highly competitive fields like medical school which leaves a large amount of students behind. It's funny that you mention productivity, perhaps the French are too productive? I mean, if we were lazier, companies would have to hire more of us to achieve the same tasks. I'm saying this as a joke but if we were to do the opposite by lengthening working hours like you're suggesting, wouldn't that actually increase unemployment?[/QUOTE] I left them out because the only Scandinavian country I know much about is Norway, and that Finland is a bit lethargic as well. What redundancies are you talking about? If the code is very burdensome then of course I'd be favor of the government trying to remedy that before having to reduce worker's protections. That would increase employment actually. I could use a bulldozer to demolish a house. Or I could hire a bunch of guys with hammers to go at it until it's demolished. The first one is much more productive but only employs me. What's lost is living standards as the productivity is one of the most important aspects of raising quality of life, so that's not really a good idea. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the 35 hours as it's actually probably pretty irrelevant. The thing is, on average French people still work very similar amounts of hours to Germans and Brits. Labor flexibility is what will most likely need to be tackled regarding worker's protections. Broadly hours are a part of that, but comparing to other EU countries it doesn't seem that 35 hours alone is causing the issue. If what you say is true about trades and whatnot then yeah, that would be a promising approach to education reform. We could actually use some of that in the US too.
Well the labour code is pretty huge, although I'm not lawyer so I can't exactly say whether all of it is necessary.
17.75% turnout at noon, probably going to be the lowest turnout rate in the history of the fifth republic. Real shit, how about we hold the legislatives before the presidential election next time? They should be the most important elections yet no one ever bothers to show up after electing the executive. The only people who've shown up came to push through a bunch of En Marche! yes-men. This smells very bad
[QUOTE=Scarabix;52374149]17.75% turnout at noon, probably going to be the lowest turnout rate in the history of the fifth republic. Real shit, how about we hold the legislatives before the presidential election next time? They should be the most important elections yet no one ever bothers to show up after electing the executive. The only people who've shown up came to push through a bunch of En Marche! yes-men. This smells very bad[/QUOTE] Holy shit that's really low. Tbf I think we should hold them mid term, not right before/after
[QUOTE=Scarabix;52374149]17.75% turnout at noon, probably going to be the lowest turnout rate in the history of the fifth republic. Real shit, how about we hold the legislatives before the presidential election next time? They should be the most important elections yet no one ever bothers to show up after electing the executive. The only people who've shown up came to push through a bunch of En Marche! yes-men. This smells very bad[/QUOTE] And thelurker1234 is going be only ones appeared in their polling station.
I didn't go to vote because I legitimately was not aware it was voting day until it happened and by then I had other plans and could not change them.
En Marche wins a majority [media]https://twitter.com/France24_en/status/876502197802065920[/media]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52374762]I didn't go to vote because I legitimately was not aware it was voting day until it happened and by then I had other plans and could not change them.[/QUOTE] Sounds like our mid-terms. No one bothers with those and republicans tend to gain in them because of the demographics that do actually turnout. [QUOTE=ChadMcGoatMan;52374200]And thelurker1234 is going be only ones appeared in their polling station.[/QUOTE] Hey, at least my plan of cloning myself 20 million times and enlisting them all in the foreign legion 5 years beforehand to get french citizenship to vote macron worked.
Only 42% turnout? What a joke.
As an Australian, it baffles my why mandatory voting isn't a more widespread thing.
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