Let people make their own decisions. People have the opportunity to make poor decisions everyday, and can fuck themselves up way worse than cigarettes could ever do. Don't force your own decisions on other people. People are smart, let them choose for themselves.
[QUOTE=Cone;42705602]old enough to join the army, but not to smoke. priorities[/QUOTE]
You say it like New York is actually able to control the age of enlistment. New York is state, enlistment is federal.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;42706394]you should probably avoid using terms that upset a large amount of people when trying to curry favor with voters is what i'm saying[/QUOTE]
Really, if you're going to make suggestions for his image he might as well stop posting on Facepunch. Having rivals smear him with being affiliated to this place alone is enough to ruin him.
I am very glad I do not live in New York. It seems like they try to enact a lot of nanny-like laws that try to regulate everything from the size of drink cups, to very restrictive firearms ownership, to fatty food availability. Now there is this.
I can buy cigs, but I rarely get carded if I do, and I don't look like I'm that much older than 18. This is just going to piss people off who have been smoking for two years that now can't buy their cigs.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;42706331]I don't give two shits about smoking but for the love of all that is American, lower the drinking age to fucking 18[/QUOTE]
That doesn't sound like a bad idea, especially when coupled with increased education on responsible substance use.
Some people even suggest licensing people for substance use.
[QUOTE=valkery;42706589]I can buy cigs, but I rarely get carded if I do, and I don't look like I'm that much older than 18. This is just going to piss people off who have been smoking for two years that now can't buy their cigs.[/QUOTE]
And smokers are already generous about giving people cigarettes. So if you want to smoke, especially in college, then this law won't change a thing.
Except maybe put more people in jail.
I never plan to smoke, so this doesn't affect me. Cigarettes are pretty harmful anyway.
Lower the goddamned drinking age tho, holy fuck.
[QUOTE=PieClock;42706249]Oh sure lets protect your principal instead of people harming themselves and others around them.[/QUOTE]
Who the hell cares if people harm themselves by smoking or drinking? It's their body, they can do whatever they want with it as long as they don't hurt anyone else.
[QUOTE=Suttles;42706781]I never plan to smoke, so this doesn't affect me. Cigarettes are pretty harmful anyway.
Lower the goddamned drinking age tho, holy fuck.[/QUOTE]
if you're worried about harm then alcohol is not much better!
[QUOTE=SKEEA;42706550]I am very glad I do not live in New York. It seems like they try to enact a lot of nanny-like laws that try to regulate everything from the size of drink cups, to very restrictive firearms ownership, to fatty food availability. Now there is this.[/QUOTE]
The 'regulation of drink cups' thing was hugely over-exaggerated, and anyone who cared was perfectly capable of buying two drinks anyway. I think it makes sense to have cigarettes and alcohol be available at the same age, but why they would raise cigarettes to 21 and not lower alcohol to 18 instead is beyond me.
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42705634]Banning things that people want usually doesnt stop them from getting those things according to history.
I believe that 18 year olds are old enough to do whatever they want with THEIR bodies, even if it slightly harms them. It's not like they are mindless babies that need a nanny to make choices for them.[/QUOTE]
Death and/or destroying your ability to breathe (and therefore function as a human) is slightly damaging.
lel
That's a nice loss in tax revenue. What a stupid idea.
Anecdotal comments are anecdotal, but everyone I know who lives in New York says that there is already a massive black market for cigarettes because the taxes are so insanely high.
I seriously doubt that this will accomplish anything besides helping organized crime.
I doubt this will change much. Black markets and friends buying for eachother will always get around these limits.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42707864]I doubt this will change much. Black markets and friends buying for eachother will always get around these limits.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but now 18 years olds cant buy for younger kids. Even though they can get an older person to buy them its now a lesser percent of that happening. This is a good thing. My mom has to look at peoples lungs and hearts every single day and its disgusting what that shit does to you.
This is stupid. Just because you don't like cigarettes doesn't make it right.
I just went in for military physical, they breathalyze us and literally said they do not care and aren't going to make a big deal if we blow slightly high. Most bars will serve an under 21 year old soldier anyways as long as they have a military ID too.
This is ridiculous but not as ridiculous and the prices of cigarettes in NYC
[QUOTE=mark6789;42707940]Yeah but now 18 years olds cant buy for younger kids. Even though they can get an older person to buy them its now a lesser percent of that happening. This is a good thing. My mom has to look at peoples lungs and hearts every single day and its disgusting what that shit does to you.[/QUOTE]
sorry that it grosses you out but that doesn't give you the right to limit other people's personal freedoms
Freedoms? Addiction is freedom now?
[QUOTE=qwerty000;42708486]Freedoms? Addiction is freedom now?[/QUOTE]
Freedom isn't only doing things that are good for you, it's doing things and taking the consequences for which ever way it goes.
As a citizen of New york, I am actually shocked they did this rather than just slapping even more taxes on the damn things.
[QUOTE=mokkan;42707363]Death and/or destroying your ability to breathe (and therefore function as a human) is slightly damaging.
lel[/QUOTE]
is your only experience of cigarettes metal gear solid or something
i mean fuck me they're not healthy but they aren't going to infect you with a smoke demon that rips out your lungs and ties your esophagus into a monkey's fist
[QUOTE=mark6789;42707940]Yeah but now 18 years olds cant buy for younger kids. Even though they can get an older person to buy them its now a lesser percent of that happening. This is a good thing. My mom has to look at peoples lungs and hearts every single day and its disgusting what that shit does to you.[/QUOTE]
Stripping the rights of many for a small percentage of criminals is not the proper reaction.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;42708498]Freedom isn't only doing things that are good for you, it's doing things and taking the consequences for which ever way it goes.[/QUOTE]
You know, everyone here smokes (except for one nerdy guy I know and my parents, who quit 8 or so years ago) And everyone started smoking not because it's good for them or they enjoyed it, but because everyone else and their friend did. I talk to smokers every day, they want to quit but hardly anyone actually does. They complain about how much money they waste on cigs, how much it probably hurts them, and yet they can't quit. So don't tell me they were free to choose.
[editline]31st October 2013[/editline]
Too bad no one can do anything to stop it, involving laws would just create illegal market of badly made cigarettes, just like with drugs
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42705634]I believe that 18 year olds are old enough to do whatever they want with THEIR bodies, even if it slightly harms them. It's not like they are mindless babies that need a nanny to make choices for them.[/QUOTE]
This to me is such a strange sentiment. It is about risk mitigation. In many countries it is done to reduce the potential health, social and economic burden that cancers bring in the future.
Sure, it's their own bodies, but in many modern countries, the tax payer is the way that pays for your habit - so the Government attempts to regulate or stop unhealthy habits.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;42708588]This to me is such a strange sentiment. It is about risk mitigation. In many countries it is done to reduce the potential health, social and economic burden that cancers bring in the future.
Sure, it's their own bodies, but in many modern countries, the tax payer is the way that pays for your habit - so the Government attempts to regulate or stop unhealthy habits.[/QUOTE]
How many things done for recreation have negative economic impacts due to the associated health risks? How many things that most people in this thread do could be legislated away by the same logic?
It isn't the government's place to control individual action, it's to provide a stable framework for people to act in freely.
I don't smoke and I think this is fucking stupid. I can join the military and kill people but I can't smoke a fucking cigarette? Get the fuck out of here. It's not like these laws matter, though. Almost everyone I know under 18 from high school smoked on a daily basis.
But at least they can still fight wars for the Government.
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
eh
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
I smoked for about a year, and then I got laid off. I quit and haven't smoked(well, I did when I was drunk for a while, but I don't smoke when I'm drinking anymore either) since.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;42708631]How many things done for recreation have negative economic impacts due to the associated health risks? How many things that most people in this thread do could be legislated away by the same logic?[/QUOTE]
Sure - you could look at it that way, but unlike things which are also known carcinogens, such as car pollution, there is no advantage in smoking cigarettes.
There is obviously a limit to what should be regulated - but all this is doing is raising the age limit on purchasing cigarettes. It's not as if it is outlawing it for all, nor anything else.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;42708631]It isn't the government's place to control individual action, it's to provide a stable framework for people to act in freely.[/QUOTE]
It's not limiting what a person can do with their bodies - it is limiting the capacity for businesses to sell something to certain groups.
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