Palestine wins United Nations statehood bid in landslide - Polidicks

I don't know how this will turn out.

Should have abstained or voted yes US, I will not shed a tear for the country itself if terrorism is brought on because of this. What were you thinking Obama?

Good for them, but this wont change a lot in the near future. "But they can go to the international court!" Yeah, bollocks. The international court, as always, will take years to handle any claim they have, and in the end, produce an outcome that is unsatisfactory to neither of the sides involved. You can't make peace via proxy. As long as they're going to ignore each other, and base their actions on internal politics and votes, the PA and Israel will still remain at a stalemate. [editline]29th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Eudoxia;38643437]Just waiting for someone to veto this or pull some nonsense out of their ass. This is too good to happen.[/QUOTE] You can't veto a general assembly decision.

Does this mean Isael can't bully around palestine anymore?

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;38643535]Does this mean Isael can't bully around palestine anymore?[/QUOTE] I don't think it will change much.

[QUOTE=smurfy;38643139][img]http://imgkk.com/i/sns3.png[/img][/QUOTE]I see your bet and raise you Russia!

A two-state solution is the best thing for Israels safety and security. You can't be pro-Israel and oppose it.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;38643535]Does this mean Isael can't bully around palestine anymore?[/QUOTE] I have a feeling they wouldn't care even if it does.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;38643585]A two-state solution is the best thing for Israels safety and security. You can't be pro-Israel and oppose it.[/QUOTE] Terrorists will have less reason to strike Israel once Palestine is formed. And hostile armies would have to be bottlenecked unless passing through Palestine.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38643630]Terrorists will have less reason to strike Israel once Palestine is formed. And hostile armies would have to be bottlenecked unless passing through Palestine.[/QUOTE] The whole Idea of someone attacking a nuclear-capable nation is ridiculous in the first place

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38643630]Terrorists will have less reason to strike Israel once Palestine is formed. And hostile armies would have to be bottlenecked unless passing through Palestine.[/QUOTE] A good part of terrorism is irrationality, I don't think losing a reason will account for much or decrease the amount of terrorism in the future.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;38643470]Good for them, but this wont change a lot in the near future. "But they can go to the international court!" Yeah, bollocks. The international court, as always, will take years to handle any claim they have, and in the end, produce an outcome that is unsatisfactory to neither of the sides involved. You can't make peace via proxy. As long as they're going to ignore each other, and base their actions on internal politics and votes, the PA and Israel will still remain at a stalemate.[/QUOTE] Well I'm interested to know: What *could* Abbas even do with regard to these negotiations? What could he concede or give up that is not already basically conceded or given up for him? By which I mean, occupied by Israeli settlements or something that would be egregious as is.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;38643657]The whole Idea of someone attacking a nuclear-capable nation is ridiculous in the first place[/QUOTE] Nuke's are only used for bragging nowadays. [I]"I bet my dad can beat up YOUR dad"[/I] [editline]30th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafan;38643690]Well I'm interested to know: What *could* Abbas even do with regard to these negotiations? What could he concede or give up that is not already basically conceded or given up for him? By which I mean, occupied by Israeli settlements or something that would be egregious as is.[/QUOTE] Nothing to give, nothing to lose.

[QUOTE=Megafan;38643690]Well I'm interested to know: What *could* Abbas even do with regard to these negotiations? What could he concede or give up that is not already basically conceded or given up for him?[/QUOTE] Nothing. Is going to the UN him exhausting his options? Yes. Will this particular option succeed in advancing relations between the PA and the Israeli government, or making the Israeli government back off of the west bank? No. Right now, I don't see [b]any[/b] way for the west bank to get out of this mess, besides some form of negotiations with Israel. Now, this move might advance that option by forcing Israel's hand, but I'm very pessimistic about it. All it's going to do, in the best case scenario, is get some papers signed with several agreements that will be broken by both sides in a year, tops. Which will happen because any agreement on the basis of this UN decision will be forced.

[QUOTE=Van-man;38643713]Nuke's are only used for bragging nowadays. [I]"I bet my dad can beat up YOUR dad"[/I] [/QUOTE] Israel came frighteningly close to launching nukes when they were at war with Egypt.

[QUOTE=Glorbo;38643739]Nothing. Is going to the UN him exhausting his options? Yes. Will this particular option succeed in advancing relations between the PA and the Israeli government, or making the Israeli government back off of the west bank? No. Right now, I don't see [b]any[/b] way for the west bank to get out of this mess, besides some form of negotiations with Israel. Now, this move might advance that option by forcing Israel's hand, but I'm very pessimistic about it. All it's going to do, in the best case scenario, is get some papers signed with several agreements that will be broken by both sides in a year, tops. Which will happen because any agreement on the basis of this UN decision will be forced.[/QUOTE] Don't worry, the UN will start sending Israel angry letters soon.

Now give palestine its land back, deport all zionist Israelis to a lonely island, somewhere faaar away from the rest of humanity. All friendly jews can stay. Peace at last!

[QUOTE=BloodYScar;38644106]Now give palestine its land back, deport all zionist Israelis to a lonely island, somewhere faaar away from the rest of humanity. All friendly jews can stay. Peace at last![/QUOTE] You do realize all this vote means is that Palestine is a non-member observer state right?

I'm rather ashamed to be an American today, I wish we had at least abstained from voting.

Voting map is done [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/UN_Resolution_of_Palestine_as_Observer_State.svg/2000px-UN_Resolution_of_Palestine_as_Observer_State.svg.png[/t] Green = yes, Red = no, Yellow = abstain, Blue = did not vote

Ugh fuck you Harper

I looked around to find a list of the full vote tally, it took a long time to find one because the UN site was down. When I finally found it I though I'd make a map. One hour later it was finished, I uploaded it to Wikipedia, went to put it in the article and bam there's a map already there

[QUOTE=smurfy;38644817]Voting map is done [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/UN_Resolution_of_Palestine_as_Observer_State.svg/2000px-UN_Resolution_of_Palestine_as_Observer_State.svg.png[/t] Green = yes, Red = no, Blue = abstain, Grey = did not vote[/QUOTE] I love how it's possible to draw a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle]great circle[/url] around the earth and have it only intersect with green countries you can draw several in fact ..

[QUOTE=MBB;38644341]You do realize all this vote means is that Palestine is a non-member observer state right?[/QUOTE] UN recognizes non-member observers as sovereign states.

[QUOTE=MBB;38644341]You do realize all this vote means is that Palestine is a non-member observer state right?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MBB;38644341]You do realize all this vote means is that Palestine is a non-member observer [U][B]state[/B][/U] right?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MBB;38644341]this vote means ... that Palestine is a ... state[/QUOTE]

Why the fuck didn't Canada vote for this? I'm greatly disappointed, although not surprisingly, in my government.

[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;38645112]Why the fuck didn't Canada vote for this? I'm greatly disappointed, although not surprisingly, in my government.[/QUOTE] Because Harper spends his day under the desks of the USA or Israel. Unfortunately, with the way our government is set up, Harper's majority and his iron grip on his cabinet means he can do practically ANYTHING he wants.

Gotta love the Harper gov't policy. Demand both sides negotiate on a two-state solution, but the moment the Palestinians seek recognition as a state, we deny it. Fucking bullshit.

[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;38645112]Why the fuck didn't Canada vote for this? I'm greatly disappointed, although not surprisingly, in my government.[/QUOTE] Our foreign minister actually flew to new york to personally vote against it.

This might sound like a horrible thing to say, but Israel will continue to use Palestine and the Palestinians because it's convenient to their national interests. A UN vote, while significant and a step in the right direction, will not shield Palestine from Israeli bombs, or Israel from Hamas rockets. The situation is extremely complex and it will take years, perhaps decades to get these people to agree amongst themselves. What most people don't realize, though, is that it's much more preferrable for Israel to keep Palestine and the Gaza strip in limbo because with less international recognition, the more wiggle room they have militarily and politically to deal with militant groups that keep popping up in prominently Palestinian areas, a side effect of lawlessness and little government due to limitations. But Israel is unwilling to realize the only way to peace in Palestine and Gaza in particular is recognition, international assistance and a strong neighbor to neighbor relationship with Israel that doesn't involve gratuitous amounts of high explosive, but co-operation and mutual understanding. Israel can have a great ally in Palestine and vice versa, but only if the two states work together to stamp out militants that cause suffering to both. Then we have a real platform for development. Just my 2cents.