This caught me off guard. I never see headlines that are from Nebraska. Being from Nebraska, nothing happens here and no one does anything here. If some guy invented warp capability in his garage in Omaha my head would probably explode from disbelief.
If it works, we can use it as a way to transport corn.
[QUOTE=Number-41;46822645]Publish or perish.
[/QUOTE]
Not what that phrase means
Im pretty sure that the alcubierre-type warp drive depends on something having negative mass or energy, and we dont really know if thats actually possible.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46824882]Not what that phrase means[/QUOTE]
You're right, should've said "Publish or be ignored".
[QUOTE=NuclearJesus;46822850][IMG]http://www.angelfire.com/trek/tom_paris_lover/images/TomParisIsCute22.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
shit he's going to break the warp barrier of warp 10 and turn into a space lizard isn't he
I'm sure this'll be as much as of a success as the "groundbreaking" inventions made by teenagers are.
Man when i was a kid I wanted to build a spaceship in my bedroom
we're stuck in this existence.
[QUOTE=SFC003;46825098]shit he's going to break the warp barrier of warp 10 and turn into a space lizard isn't he[/QUOTE]
And then have sex with Kate Mulgrew
[QUOTE=mecaguy03;46824923]Im pretty sure that the alcubierre-type warp drive depends on something having negative mass or energy, and we dont really know if thats actually possible.[/QUOTE]
The analogy that I like to use is 'a spacecraft surfboard riding the space-time wave', you compress space-time in front (With normal matter), and expand space-time in back (with negative matter).
Something along the lines of that.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;46824149]A guy with a laser in a garage does not a convincing experiment make. He hasn't shown that whatever result he gets is because of space warping, he hasn't shown that the warped space is due to whatever he thinks it is, he hasn't even shown that he really knows what's going on with the Alcubierre metric or general relativity in general. His website is very damning. It reads like every other collection of crackpot nonsense: no technical details, non-standard terminology, insistence that his "experiments" have already proven him right despite no one taking him seriously, atrocious formatting.
There are huge problems even with the idea that the Alcubierre drive could [I]ever[/I] exist, let alone with current technology. Anyone claiming to have built on in his garage should be met with the utmost skepticism. Here's something you may not have caught: David Pares has [I]no[/I] physics credentials. His highest degree is a Master's in Geography. It's no wonder his website gives no indication that he has any idea what he's saying. He probably doesn't.
So basically, nearly 100% crackpot likelihood.[/QUOTE]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently given the massive amount of energy needed for an Alcubierre drive, it would destroy a large section of the solar system it arrived in if something went wrong wouldn't it?
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;46827502]Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently given the massive amount of energy needed for an Alcubierre drive, it would destroy a large section of the solar system it arrived in if something went wrong wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]
Isn't it something to do with all the radiation built up on the front of your ship from travelling that fast?
Stop and it blasts off the front of your ship all at once at the speed of light
The whole idea is that the skin of the warp bubble catches space dust and shit as you travel and when you arrive at the destination and stop all that dust and shit doesn't I think, so it basically just disintegrates anything in front of you.
Which will be useful when we discover the evil alien slave drivers and need to go to space war.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;46827502]Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently given the massive amount of energy needed for an Alcubierre drive, it would destroy a large section of the solar system it arrived in if something went wrong wouldn't it?[/QUOTE]
The formerly massive energy requirements have since been cut down, but the real problem is that it relies on negative mass-energy, and we have no reason to believe that even exists. People talk about the Casimir effect, but the "negative energy" in the Casimir effect is an illusion. It can't be harnessed, it's not really there, and the more modern viewpoint on the Casimir effect is that it can be derived completely from relativistic Van der Waals forces between the plates (instead of the more common virtual particle explanation), so we can reformulate in such a way that there's [I]obviously[/I] no negative energy going on.
So basically the Alcubierre drive depends on a form of matter that we don't know, and don't believe, exists.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;46827606]Isn't it something to do with all the radiation built up on the front of your ship from travelling that fast?
Stop and it blasts off the front of your ship all at once at the speed of light[/QUOTE]
That is also a problem. Also the people in the ship may be killed by all the particles they're running into without some kind of crazy radiation shielding.
Also the Alcubierre metric has closed timelike curves, which allow backwards time travel, and almost every physicist thinks will be ruled out as unphysical at some point in the future by some theorem we don't understand yet.
Also it might violate good old special relativity. See [B][url=http://motls.blogspot.com/2013/07/relativity-bans-faster-than-light-warp.html]this[/url][/B] for an explanation. CAUTION: Lubos Motl is a nutcase who happens to be really good at theoretical physics. He's such a lunatic conservative asshole that he was fired... from his Harvard physics professorship. So take him with a confusing grain of salt.
So the Alcubierre metric is fine mathematically with our theories, but anyone who claims it's probably physical is pretty out there. Anyone who claims to have built one is a crackpot, or after your money, or both.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;46828429]The formerly massive energy requirements have since been cut down, but the real problem is that it relies on negative mass-energy, and we have no reason to believe that even exists. People talk about the Casimir effect, but the "negative energy" in the Casimir effect is an illusion. It can't be harnessed, it's not really there, and the more modern viewpoint on the Casimir effect is that it can be derived completely from relativistic Van der Waals forces between the plates (instead of the more common virtual particle explanation), so we can reformulate in such a way that there's [I]obviously[/I] no negative energy going on.
So basically the Alcubierre drive depends on a form of matter that we don't know, and don't believe, exists.
That is also a problem. Also the people in the ship may be killed by all the particles they're running into without some kind of crazy radiation shielding.
Also the Alcubierre metric has closed timelike curves, which allow backwards time travel, and almost every physicist thinks will be ruled out as unphysical at some point in the future by some theorem we don't understand yet.
Also it might violate good old special relativity. See [B][url=http://motls.blogspot.com/2013/07/relativity-bans-faster-than-light-warp.html]this[/url][/B] for an explanation. CAUTION: Lubos Motl is a nutcase who happens to be really good at theoretical physics. He's such a lunatic conservative asshole that he was fired... from his Harvard physics professorship. So take him with a confusing grain of salt.
So the Alcubierre metric is fine mathematically with our theories, but anyone who claims it's probably physical is pretty out there. Anyone who claims to have built one is a crackpot, or after your money, or both.[/QUOTE]
AFAIK Alcubierre created the thereom to see what would have to be done to make a warp drive and found what he expected: a mathematical possibility coupled with a physical impossibility. I don't think he has ever advertised this as a valid method of space travel instead intending it more as a fascinating thought experiment. Doesn't make it any less brilliant, worthy, or neat to learn about though.
Please, don't consider the Alcubierre drive a valid concept. I wouldn't entirely dismiss it since that would be just as foolish as taking it verbatim. There are quite a few other Interstellar travel concepts that all deserve their own attention and research as well, but right now let's worry about interplanetary travel before we look beyond our rational capabilities.
I have always wondered however if the field geometry couldn't be modified to vent the Interstellar matter slowly, or maybe stops could be made in Interstellar space outside of a solar system. Then you could cruise in using regular ol fusion rockets or whatever and hope the shockwave dissipates on the bow shock maybe. I dunno, those are just fun thoughts too
[QUOTE=eomsten;46824777]This caught me off guard. I never see headlines that are from Nebraska. Being from Nebraska, nothing happens here and no one does anything here. If some guy invented warp capability in his garage in Omaha my head would probably explode from disbelief.
If it works, we can use it as a way to transport corn.[/QUOTE]
Transporting corn...faster than the speed of corn
I want to believe.
I find the EmDrive ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive[/url]) to be way more promising and interesting personally.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;46830015]I find the EmDrive ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive[/url]) to be way more promising and interesting personally.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but they're definitely not the same thing in any way, shape or form.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;46830015]I find the EmDrive ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive[/url]) to be way more promising and interesting personally.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much equally as unlikely to work as advertised. Conservation of momentum can be derived in just about every context in physics: classical mechanics, relativity, quantum field theory... All the attempts to convince us that this device can work and to explain the theory so far have not claimed to be using new physics, so they are all doomed to be flawed. Current physics does not support the device. I love John Baez's criticism to Sonny White claiming the device pushes against the ~quantum vacuum virtual plasma~:
"'Quantum vacuum virtual plasma' is something you'd say if you failed a course in quantum field theory and then smoked too much weed."
And he's right. That phrase is complete gibberish. The people involved are largely non-experts in physics who clearly don't know what they're talking about. When articles about the thing were going around a few months ago, they liked to point out that the control device that they developed also experienced an unaccounted for thrust, and they acted like this is incredible evidence that they're onto something. Getting similar results in your experiment and your control is incredible evidence that you have fucked up your experiment.
One thing that I never understand about warp interferometer is how do they expect a simple ring capacitor to bend space. Like how? EM magics like in most of syfy movies?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;46832373]Pretty much equally as unlikely to work as advertised. Conservation of momentum can be derived in just about every context in physics: classical mechanics, relativity, quantum field theory... All the attempts to convince us that this device can work and to explain the theory so far have not claimed to be using new physics, so they are all doomed to be flawed. Current physics does not support the device. I love John Baez's criticism to Sonny White claiming the device pushes against the ~quantum vacuum virtual plasma~:
"'Quantum vacuum virtual plasma' is something you'd say if you failed a course in quantum field theory and then smoked too much weed."
And he's right. That phrase is complete gibberish. The people involved are largely non-experts in physics who clearly don't know what they're talking about. When articles about the thing were going around a few months ago, they liked to point out that the control device that they developed also experienced an unaccounted for thrust, and they acted like this is incredible evidence that they're onto something. Getting similar results in your experiment and your control is incredible evidence that you have fucked up your experiment.[/QUOTE]
So what faster-than-light propulsion systems even look remotely possible or within the realm of possibility?
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;46832444]So what faster-than-light propulsion systems even look remotely possible or within the realm of possibility?[/QUOTE]
None, lol.
[editline]31st December 2014[/editline]
Any speed-of-light limit violation is a violation of causality in some reference frame. If you like your events to proceed logically from cause to effect, pray that we never discover FTL travel!
So if FTL violates causality and would basically cause weird time travel shit, am I right in thinking wormholes would be the only usable and safe method of interstellar transport (not taking the possibility of them actually existing into account)?
[editline]1st January 2015[/editline]
Also "jump" drives and hyperdrives, neither directly have anything to do with the passage of time in our space, it's essentially just teleportation without the issue of killing the person traveling and then making a copy of them at the destination
It is a shame that we'll most likely never get any sort of FTL-shittery thanks to ( our understanding of ) physics, but just having excellent propulsion systems would bring us far. Reaching high % of c would make trip shorter to traveler in way, although not for outside observer.
But stepping out of our solar system is not necessary in short term future, as we can survive rather long with resources of our system. At least I hope we can do that.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;46832525]None, lol.
[editline]31st December 2014[/editline]
Any speed-of-light limit violation is a violation of causality in some reference frame. If you like your events to proceed logically from cause to effect, pray that we never discover FTL travel![/QUOTE]
I didn't do so well in physics so correct me if I'm wrong, which I most probably am, but wouldn't a closed timelike curve going through an event horizon prevent causality breaches as described by the chronological censorship theory allow for faster than light travel? or if the Novikov self-consistency principle was proven, wouldn't that also allow for something like this?
[QUOTE=James xX;46835127]I didn't do so well in physics so correct me if I'm wrong, which I most probably am, but wouldn't a closed timelike curve going through an event horizon [/QUOTE]
A closed timelike can't go through an event horizon. The event horizon is defined as the boundary past which light can no longer escape to infinity. If a timelike curve can reach a point outside the horizon, there must be a causal curve connecting points within the event horizon to future timelike infinity, a contradiction.
All these miricle drives remind me of flying machines from before a working mathematical theory of flight was devised, people thought any shape of wing and all sorts of other little subtle changes would surely make it worm, when people finally modeled it however it allowed the wright brothers and several others to converge on relatively similar designs in a very short span of time
[editline]1st January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sasupoika;46834897]It is a shame that we'll most likely never get any sort of FTL-shittery thanks to ( our understanding of ) physics, but just having excellent propulsion systems would bring us far. Reaching high % of c would make trip shorter to traveler in way, although not for outside observer.
But stepping out of our solar system is not necessary in short term future, as we can survive rather long with resources of our system. At least I hope we can do that.[/QUOTE]
Really though, humanity needs to fundimentally change rather than the laws of physics. If we lived a few centuries at a time for example, a few years at high c and time dilation wouldn't matter too much, additionally the social structures of our current societies are just not capable of making any long term journey like this but I am confident we can do it with the right ideology and physiology
[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;46834384]So if FTL violates causality and would basically cause weird time travel shit, am I right in thinking wormholes would be the only usable and safe method of interstellar transport (not taking the possibility of them actually existing into account)?
[editline]1st January 2015[/editline]
Also "jump" drives and hyperdrives, neither directly have anything to do with the passage of time in our space, it's essentially just teleportation without the issue of killing the person traveling and then making a copy of them at the destination[/QUOTE]
Nah, just go inside a rocket powerful enough to leave the solar system and you'll get there eventually.
[editline]1st January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sableye;46835470]Really though, humanity needs to fundimentally change rather than the laws of physics. If we lived a few centuries at a time for example, a few years at high c and time dilation wouldn't matter too much, additionally the social structures of our current societies are just not capable of making any long term journey like this but I am confident we can do it with the right ideology and physiology[/QUOTE]
This, the only reason people are so eager to discover FTL travel is because we can't do a whole trip in a lifetime for the time being. There's no known physical impossibility to life extension technology as of yet, whereas it's extremely unlikely we ever invent a working warp drive.
[QUOTE=_Axel;46835737]Nah, just go inside a rocket powerful enough to leave the solar system and you'll get there eventually.[/QUOTE]
WELL YEAH but I meant something that could get you to another star system in a reasonable amount of time
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