• WikiLeaks and Hacktivist Culture
    48 replies, posted
I didn't argue any of those things though. It doesn't matter anyways, this isn't about the U.S military....
[QUOTE=looneyxl;24957216]I didn't argue any of those things though.[/QUOTE] Yes you did. You did it right here: [QUOTE=looneyxl;24956853]My point is that that is to be expected in war. So pointing fingers at the military for being bad guys is pointless.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=looneyxl;24957216]It doesn't matter anyways, this isn't about the U.S military....[/QUOTE] Yes it is. Did you read the article in the OP?
[QUOTE=TH89;24957121] [b]since we are in a war, we should not expect the military to enforce [i]its own standards of behavior[/i].[/b] [b]you are arguing that the military should [i]stop following its own rules[/i].[/b] [/QUOTE] But, I didn't say either of those things. The only point I was trying to make (which I guess I didn't make very well, my apologies), is that we need to have a realistic idea of war and the battlefield. I didn't say anything about condoning what goes on that shouldn't. You just have to put yourself in the shoes of a soldier, which none of us can do because we don't know what it's like (except for veterans obviously). No, it's not OK, and it's not right, but it is war. [editline]06:31PM[/editline] [QUOTE=TH89;24957232] Yes it is. Did you read the article in the OP?[/QUOTE] And no it's not. War and the military are mentioned, but the point of the article doesn't truly concern either.
[QUOTE=looneyxl;24957277]No, it's not OK, and it's not right, but it is war.[/QUOTE] Okay. I know there is a war happening right now. That's fucking obvious. Saying "it's war" doesn't [i]mean anything[/i]. So, please explain what it is you think we should DO about these offenses, and the efforts made by the military to hide them from the public. Have the balls to say what you think, instead of waffling and pussyfooting around with crap like "well I'm just saying..." and "that's how it goes" and "I didn't say that." State your damn position. Let's talk [b]policy[/b].
I don't have any ideas concerning what we should do. Why does that even matter? I don't understand why you're so worked up. I think you're just trying to play Devil's Advocate.
[QUOTE=looneyxl;24957318]I don't have any ideas concerning what we should do. Why does that even matter? I don't understand why you're so worked up. I think you're just trying to play Devil's Advocate.[/QUOTE] I am going to strangle you to death over the internet
[QUOTE=looneyxl;24957318]I don't have any ideas concerning what we should do. Why does that even matter? I don't understand why you're so worked up. I think you're just trying to play Devil's Advocate.[/QUOTE] Isn't doing that textbook trolling?
The internet should run for president.
[quote] former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen, who added that "taking [Assange] off the streets is not enough; we must also recover the documents he [B][I]unlawfully possesses[/I][/B] and disable the system he has built to [B][I]illegally[/I][/B] disseminate classified information."[/quote] They must be getting desperate if they're resorting to this kind of talk to win people over.
[QUOTE=TH89;24956721] I totally support the idea of transparency in military operations and whatnot but the incompetence and rashness with which Wikileaks treated the initial batches makes me think they're not up to the challenge of handling this kind of information. They're doing an important job but I wish someone else were doing it, in other words. I'm not big on the livelihoods of people in 3rd world countries being in the hands of arrogant libertarian nerds.[/QUOTE] I think it's less that they're arrogant nerds, and more that their organization is used to releasing things like the occasional CRO report, not massive tomes of potentially risky text. They have put out calls to allow Human rights orgs and the government to assist with combing through the documents for harmful information, but as far as I've heard none have responded. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
[QUOTE=TH89;24956721]Then they didn't do a very good job when they released all those uncensored documents, did they? It's pretty sad to see the internets (and liberals in general) tripping over themselves to praise Assange for sticking it to the man at the expense of afghani civilians, conveniently forgetting all that rhetoric about how brown people's lives are worth just as much as ours etc etc. I guess the human rights organizations were an alliance of convenience.[/QUOTE] But no one has died yet because of them. It might happen in the future, but it hasn't yet.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24957868]They must be getting desperate if they're resorting to this kind of talk to win people over.[/QUOTE] I also have no idea at all how he thinks any of that is possible. (Except maybe arresting Assange).
[QUOTE=TH89;24956721]Then they didn't do a very good job when they released all those uncensored documents, did they? It's pretty sad to see the internets (and liberals in general) tripping over themselves to praise Assange for sticking it to the man at the expense of afghani civilians, conveniently forgetting all that rhetoric about how brown people's lives are worth just as much as ours etc etc. I guess the human rights organizations were an alliance of convenience. I totally support the idea of transparency in military operations and whatnot but the incompetence and rashness with which Wikileaks treated the initial batches makes me think they're not up to the challenge of handling this kind of information. They're doing an important job but I wish someone else were doing it, in other words. I'm not big on the livelihoods of people in 3rd world countries being in the hands of arrogant libertarian nerds.[/QUOTE] Our government didn't give a shit when they were the ones carpet bombing cities in order to get at one or two moderately high level Al Qaeda members, but suddenly Assange putting people at risk is the most terrible thing to ever happen in the history of ever. Assange is just a distraction, don't look at what the right hand is doing, look at the left. If Bush were still in power, Assange would have probably been illegally picked up and flown straight to Guantanamo, where he would "confess" after a few weeks of "enhanced interrogation" that he's actually working with Al Qaeda and trained in a terrorist camp and wants to destroy America and apple pie and freedom and democracy :patriot:
[QUOTE=TH89;24957342]I am going to strangle you to death over the internet[/QUOTE] Alrighty... *Is strangled. Feel better?
[QUOTE=looneyxl;24957318]I don't have any ideas concerning what we should do. Why does that even matter? I don't understand why you're so worked up. I think you're just trying to play Devil's Advocate.[/QUOTE]If you're not up to the task of debating in, at the very least, a semi-intelligent manner, don't bother.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;24957938]I think it's less that they're arrogant nerds, and more that their organization is used to releasing things like the occasional CRO report, not massive tomes of potentially risky text.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's probably true. But isn't there a degree of arrogance in the fact that they DID release the first batch of documents before they really understood what they had? [QUOTE=Omali;24958118]Our government didn't give a shit when they were the ones carpet bombing cities in order to get at one or two moderately high level Al Qaeda members, but suddenly Assange putting people at risk is the most terrible thing to ever happen in the history of ever.[/QUOTE] See, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off so much. All of a sudden left-wingers could give a damn about the afghanis who have been endangered by the release of these documents. Any criticism is just deflected with "well the military killed people so they're hypocrites if they complain about it!" These are [i]people[/i]. If you only care about them as a political football, you're no better than the hawks.
[QUOTE=Phoenix Ashes;24956645]I fucked your mom.[/QUOTE] And now that I know this, I can purchase a black trenchcoat and burglar mask to exact vigilante justice! The point is, more public info should not do the public any harm.
[QUOTE=Oneperson;24952051]Anyone who's opposed to the idea of transparency and wikileaks in general, ask yourself this - Is there any information you'd be [I]worse[/I] off knowing?[/QUOTE] Uh yeah there could potentially
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;24959311]If you're not up to the task of debating in, at the very least, a semi-intelligent manner, don't bother.[/QUOTE] Because your post here had something to do with the topic at hand, right? I didn't come to the thread to discuss my plans on fixing the U.S Army's problems...So don't expect me to.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.