[QUOTE=phaedon;51160472]Better identification of it also makes it impossible to track epidemiological data over time, since different standards are used.
As far as I can see, we can't be certain that there's been a significant increase, decrease in mental illness, or if it's just been fluctuating around a mean in the past couple of centuries. It just seems counter-intuitive to me, that one in four people have been self-harming over such a long period of modern history without it having obvious and apparent effects to us, even endangering our survival as a species.
Regardless of that, obviously there must have been [i]some[/i] changes to the prevalence of mental illness, positive and negative, as socioeconomic and cultural conditions change over time. Different countries, with different cultures and different conditions have very different suicide rates, for example. And these kinds of conditions can change very rapidly, even in just a few years time.[/QUOTE]
It is a nuisance we don't have much historical data for mental welfare about. What we do have from the last few centuries isn't exactly accurate, or in some cases doesn't even resemble what we understand as mental welfare today.
I'd be inclined to lean towards it being a fluctuating value, no massive spikes or valleys. As mental illness has been something we've written about for centuries now, we just attributed it to demons or some shit. We have records of royalty who were clearly mentally ill in some way, but as we didn't have an actual inkling of what that shit is back then, we couldn't even begin to study or treat it appropriately. There is almost certainly some tie between socio-economic factors and mental welfare from what I've looked over however. But what I've looked over isn't exactly exhaustive.
Though a 1 in 4 possibility of having some kind of mental health issue isn't exactly an extinction level event for us. That's still 3/4ths of a population who are fine. In a population of 1m, it's only 250k that are likely to harm themselves (and even then, it may not prove fatal). It's certainly something that needs resolving, but it's not going to be enough to stop the species from reproducing and growing.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51160772]So exposure to the knowledge we now have on symptoms is bettering our recognition of mental illness?
Awesome, glad we agree then!
(if you were intending for that post to be some "FUCKING SJWS!!!" style thing, you may want to slow down a bit. "The Internet" is used by many millions of people, only a minuscule fraction of which are even exposed to this particular area of it. It's not going to be enough to inflate numbers to a 1 in 4 ratio. Besides, this study is reporting of symptoms, not self diagnosis as self diagnosing is prone to false positives)[/QUOTE]
neither of those were my point. my point was that our brains have not evolved to have as much information stuffed into them as the internet has allowed for us to stuff into it. i don't think it is a coincidence that the majority of people i see who post on internet forums or twitter seem to self-report signs of depression. i think that we're all addicted to the internet and having supremely easy access to any kind of joy we want has burnt many of us out. for those who don't spend a lot of time on the internet, it adds yet another social avenue that needs attention and care, attention and care that i don't think we're actually capable of giving without harming ourselves. why is it that i have heard almost universally from people that quitting social media or the internet has made them feel so much better?
this isn't something we should just ignore or pretend is fine. we haven't had the internet around long enough to really understand its psychological effects on us but, anecdotally, it seems like it is negstively effecting many people's mental health.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51160702]I have my doubts about 26% being a new thing. I'd imagine plenty of people in old ages suffered from anxiety, depressing and similar.[/QUOTE]
There's plenty, and then there's 26% of young women having suicidal tendencies at a time and a country that is generally doing pretty well. I don't mean to belittle the hardships that individuals face, but living in the [del]United States[/del]United Kingdom in 2016 isn't as bad as it could be.
Imagine how that statistic would rise in countries experiencing total war or famine. The sheer attrition would be enough to bring down entire countries.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51160818]It's UK isn't it?[/QUOTE]
Apologies, I am dumb.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51160814]There's plenty, and then there's 26% of young women having suicidal tendencies at a time and a country that is generally doing pretty well. I don't mean to belittle the hardships that individuals face, but living in the United States in 2016 isn't as bad as it could be.
Imagine how that statistic would rise in countries experiencing total war or famine. The sheer attrition would be enough to bring down entire countries.[/QUOTE]
It's UK isn't it?
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51160800]neither of those were my point. my point was that our brains have not evolved to have as much information stuffed into them as the internet has allowed for us to stuff into it. i don't think it is a coincidence that the majority of people i see who post on internet forums or twitter seem to self-report signs of depression. i think that we're all addicted to the internet and having supremely easy access to any kind of joy we want has burnt many of us out. for those who don't spend a lot of time on the internet, it adds yet another social avenue that needs attention and care, attention and care that i don't think we're actually capable of giving without harming ourselves. why is it that i have heard almost universally from people that quitting social media or the internet has made them feel so much better?
this isn't something we should just ignore or pretend is fine. we haven't had the internet around long enough to really understand its psychological effects on us but, anecdotally, it seems like it is negstively effecting many people's mental health.[/QUOTE]
Ah, fair point in that case (the sheer number of /pol/ rejects around here makes me kinda wary of posts that vaguely attribute "the internet" to bad things as of recent, sorry about that).
There's a large field of study into the impacts of this much information being thrown around and straight at us actually. Some of it's pretty neat. We've pretty much concreted the idea of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) to the rise of social media, where everybody is sharing whatever they are doing all the time. People start to genuinely feel like if they aren't absorbing that information 24/7 they might miss something important. I've definitely fallen prey to it once or twice.
Social Media in particular has generated a lot of research into this kind of stuff. Even Facebook themselves get up to it by manipulating News Feeds from time to time to see what kind of emotional changes it may introduce to participants (last time they did this without warning people, the shitstorm was off the scale when they announced the results, ethical problems all over the place).
[QUOTE=phaedon;51160814]There's plenty, and then there's 26% of young women having suicidal tendencies at a time and a country that is generally doing pretty well. I don't mean to belittle the hardships that individuals face, but living in the United States in 2016 isn't as bad as it could be.
Imagine how that statistic would rise in countries experiencing total war or famine. The sheer attrition would be enough to bring down entire countries.[/QUOTE]
That really depends. Being lower class in UK/US can be really shitty and cause a lot of mental problems for example.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51160796]Though a 1 in 4 possibility of having some kind of mental health issue isn't exactly an extinction level event for us. That's still 3/4ths of a population who are fine. In a population of 1m, it's only 250k that are likely to harm themselves (and even then, it may not prove fatal). It's certainly something that needs resolving, but it's not going to be enough to stop the species from reproducing and growing.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I would argue that even if 1/4th of the population/workforce were disadvantaged in such a massive way, we'd all be in trouble, but I don't have anything to back this up with.
Nevertheless, it's important to consider that suicide rates [i]are[/i] significantly affected by outside factors (just compare SE Europe with NE Europe, despite the fact that both areas have more or less western quality of life), and as such could fluctuate considerably with different generations. Not necessarily massive spikes, yes, but still considerable.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51160836]That really depends. Being lower class anywhere can be really shitty and cause a lot of mental problems for example.[/QUOTE]
FTFY. Dunno why you kept UK/US as the only examples. It's like saying only those 2 countries matter, while forgetting the rest of the world.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;51160844]FTFY. Dunno why you kept UK/US as the only examples. It's like saying only those 2 countries matter, while forgetting the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
The article is about Uk and he mentioned Us, sorry if I offended you
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51160853]The article is about Uk and he mentioned Us, sorry if I offended you[/QUOTE]
Aaaah, figures as much. My bad :v:.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;51160844]FTFY. Dunno why you kept UK/US as the only examples. It's like saying only those 2 countries matter, while forgetting the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
The study is British (and he quoted a post of mine where I confused the US with the UK).
Plus, being lower class sucks universally, sure, but location matters. Lots of variables change from country to country. I'd much rather be lower class in Canada than in Somalia.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51160826]Ah, fair point in that case (the sheer number of /pol/ rejects around here makes me kinda wary of posts that vaguely attribute "the internet" to bad things as of recent, sorry about that).
There's a large field of study into the impacts of this much information being thrown around and straight at us actually. Some of it's pretty neat. We've pretty much concreted the idea of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) to the rise of social media, where everybody is sharing whatever they are doing all the time. People start to genuinely feel like if they aren't absorbing that information 24/7 they might miss something important. I've definitely fallen prey to it once or twice.
Social Media in particular has generated a lot of research into this kind of stuff. Even Facebook themselves get up to it by manipulating News Feeds from time to time to see what kind of emotional changes it may introduce to participants (last time they did this without warning people, the shitstorm was off the scale when they announced the results, ethical problems all over the place).[/QUOTE]
it will be interesting to see the data in 30, 40 years, after we've had several generations grow up directly immersed in the internet.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51160840]Fair enough. I would argue that even if 1/4th of the population/workforce were disadvantaged in such a massive way, we'd all be in trouble, but I don't have anything to back this up with.
Nevertheless, it's important to consider that suicide rates [i]are[/i] significantly affected by outside factors (just compare SE Europe with NE Europe, despite the fact that both areas have more or less have western quality of life), and as such could fluctuate considerably with different generations. Not necessarily massive spikes, yes, but still considerable).[/QUOTE]
Well with things like depression it doesn't stop you actually functioning most of the time. You'll have your days/ weeks where it gets you bad and you just fucking cannot deal with life. But, outside of those times you can still be a functional and productive person. Capable of having relationships and so forth. You just also have a chance of falling into a depressed state sometimes.
Anxiety is a bit of a problem for social interaction and actually holding down jobs though, as it will impact how you interact with people all the time.
It's not like every single mentally ill person is actively trying to take their lives either. I'm not sure if we even have stats for suicide attempts split into mental illness categories or not. But combining that with this study could indicate exactly how much of a population could potentially vanish thanks to these bastard illnesses.
[QUOTE=phaedon;51160814]Imagine how that statistic would rise in countries experiencing total war or famine. The sheer attrition would be enough to bring down entire countries.[/QUOTE]
When you're in the middle of a war zone or have to spend your whole day scrounging for food you don't have the time to be depressed.
Most mental illnesses, while dormant, are emphasized by idleness because comfort brings self-introspection which makes people depressed as fuck.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51160875]Well with things like depression it doesn't stop you actually functioning most of the time. You'll have your days/ weeks where it gets you bad and you just fucking cannot deal with life. But, outside of those times you can still be a functional and productive person. Capable of having relationships and so forth. You just also have a chance of falling into a depressed state sometimes.
Anxiety is a bit of a problem for social interaction and actually holding down jobs though, as it will impact how you interact with people all the time.
It's not like every single mentally ill person is actively trying to take their lives either. I'm not sure if we even have stats for suicide attempts split into mental illness categories or not. But combining that with this study could indicate exactly how much of a population could potentially vanish thanks to these bastard illnesses.[/QUOTE]
It varies immensely aswell. There are people who are so depressed they literally spend all their time both awake and asleep in bed and have to be encouraged and cared for like children to do simple things like taking a walk. There are those who are so depressed that they end up committing suicide, despite being able to function perfectly in society.
I currently suffer from major depression. I really hope these studies cause more action towards these types of depression and suicidal thoughts, it's like living in a hellish world where your only motive to get up every day is to sleep again several hours later
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51160024]If everyone has anxiety then no one has anxiety[/QUOTE]
if everyone is number x then no one is number x
this is like paradox man
Yes, but, as each new edition of the DSM comes out, more and more behavior which most wouldnt consider mental illness becomes classified as such. As psychology becomes more and more focused on correcting behavior rather than improving feelings of happiness, behaviors which we find difficult to control are attributed to compulsion instead of a simple lack of discipline. Of course, things like hoarding and compulsive eating and OCD are genuine disorders, but a general laziness and unwillingness to improve ones life now often becomes conflated with a compulsive need to do things which are unhealthy or bad for us.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;51161453]Yes, but, as each new edition of the DSM comes out, more and more behavior which most wouldnt consider mental illness becomes classified as such. As psychology becomes more and more focused on correcting behavior rather than improving feelings of happiness, behaviors which we find difficult to control are attributed to compulsion instead of a simple lack of discipline. Of course, things like hoarding and compulsive eating and OCD are genuine disorders, but a general laziness and unwillingness to improve ones life now often becomes conflated with a compulsive need to do things which are unhealthy or bad for us.[/QUOTE] It's not really correcting behavior, it's more giving you the tools to do it on your own. Which when you have the tools to change the behavior you see in yourself and don't like, you end up improving your overall happiness and overall life. General laziness and unwillingness generally isn't the the problem it's your behavior and thoughts that lead to that. Which then self reinforces itself as that becomes your thought process. Could you be more specific on what most wouldn't consider mental illness is?
[QUOTE=proboardslol;51161453]Yes, but, as each new edition of the DSM comes out, more and more behavior which most wouldnt consider mental illness becomes classified as such. As psychology becomes more and more focused on correcting behavior rather than improving feelings of happiness, behaviors which we find difficult to control are attributed to compulsion instead of a simple lack of discipline. Of course, things like hoarding and compulsive eating and OCD are genuine disorders, but a general laziness and unwillingness to improve ones life now often becomes conflated with a compulsive need to do things which are unhealthy or bad for us.[/QUOTE]
According to a professor and psychologist I had, insurance will only pay for one's treatments when there's an actual diagnosis. This has caused an increase in both diagnoses themselves and what qualifies as an illness to be diagnosed.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51160174]This kind of shit is the reason people feel stigmatised over mental health issues and are less likely to seek help.
Hey these people might be having some pretty serious problems but at least you managed to make some epic zingers about your favourite internet memes at their expense.
Bring back the dumb rating for sensationalist headlines.[/QUOTE]Well it certainly would fucking help if more people slapped the shit (literally, figuratively, I don't care) out of anyone who actually does that.
Oh and if you think this is just confined to "internet memes" then you're either too young or too naive to realize [B]that reaction has been the de facto attitude toward mental illness for most of human fucking history.[/B] Only until very, very, [I]very[/I] recently have people looked at somebody gibbering nonsense and wasn't inclined to beat him over the head with a rock to stop him from cursing the tribe. Fucking JFK's sister had a lobotomy (Pssst! 20th century was a mere seventeen years ago!) because that's how they handled unruly, mouthy girls. Not a lot of people know that because back then and right up until the self-help wave nobody fucking talked about crazy people and they were shunned as defective freaks that your drunk uncle brought up on Thanksgiving.
Besides the history frankly I don't blame anyone who looks at this shit with at least some degree of skepticism, people who self-diagnose are a dime a dozen and reporting symptoms is not an indication of an actual illness. "Having" some "symptoms" of anxiety or depression could mean literally anything, unless you have some obvious issue like you're missing an arm self-diagnosis of anything is likely going to be complete bullshit. Actually it runs contrary to all established common sense, debriefs, incident summaries, after action reports, and a slew of other "senseless" bureaucratic motions all serve a purpose to overcome personal deficiencies in troubleshooting things experienced through a first-person perspective. Asking somebody, "do you have symptoms of a mental illness?" could yield all sorts of shit, some lady is just sad because her car got dinged or because she failed X class and oh no life is hard she absolutely have a [I]disorder![/I]
Or maybe she's just fucking normal and is experiencing normal human emotions because those things suck and only a loony fruitloop is going to react positively in a world of shit.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51160236]I disagree, The fact that people come out to ridicule some dumb storm-in-a-tea-cup internet trend [i] whenever mental health is brought up [/i] shows that it's doing far more harm than good.
This article didn't mention tumblr or the dreaded SJWs at all, but for some reason that's the first thing that comes to mind for some posters the moment the subject of mental health comes up.
I don't see how applying a negative stereotype to people with mental illness is going to help them.[/QUOTE]Well for one that negative stereotype exists because people with [I]actual issues[/I] suffer from it and visibly so, it's not at all inappropriate to see somebody talking about their goddamn headmates and experience unbridled rage.
Most people aren't familiar with schizophrenia up close and in all it's ugly glory, same thing with Dissociative Identity Disorder so granted the rage might not have much context. Even so, do you really need to fucking experience somebody try to explain something to you and just keep going off in random tangents because their brain is switching channels to know how awful it is? These people actively end their shit because it's hell on everyone around them and it's a nightmare they can't escape from. Some fat cunt online going on about her otherkin squirrel Japanese samurai friends locked up in her brain does not equal to a girl who can't leave her house because she's literally insane, I really shouldn't need to explain why. Even without knowing them it's hard to look them in the eye and just see this hollow husk of somebody who's barely making by on meds, oh and their parents (who are elderly) collecting them look even worse because they had the misfortune to bring that child into the world. My first face to face encounter with DID is not easily forgotten, and I am [U]disgusted[/U] by people who play pretend at it.
You can disagree all you want but it's a natural and reasonable response to know the above shit exists in some form and then realize that [I]people fake things for attention[/I] and find that disturbing and sick.
That's not necessarily what's happening here though, and I'm not going to fault somebody for going "oh no I have thought cancer and AIDS also melanoma please send help!" because I'm convinced the majority of this high figure is a result of two things: a comfy lifestyle that allows and affords the luxury to sit and freak out and secondly, an overabundance of information. That second point is critical, just because you happen to own a medical textbook and a stethoscope does not make you a doctor despite having the appropriate tools and [I]technically[/I] the source of appropriate knowledge. From a first-person perspective everything is magnified, what you normally wouldn't think about when explaining something to a professional you focus on and inflate and [I]that[/I] becomes a new symptom. Have anxiety? Well shit, you're basically neurotic and are you hearing things? Well you thought you heard something once but nothing was there so naturally buying some bootleg Thorazine from a crack dealer is the logical next step.
Dumb. Dangerous and dumb. Professionals exist for a reason, if you think it is truly that bad go see them and if you're leery of that then use the time tested method: talk to friends and family because that's exactly what you're going to do anyway.
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
By the way I'm not shitting on you specifically, I'm just addressing points you made that others made so consider it a general post.
These numbers are unfortunately not surprising when birth control pills have been linked to depression :(
[QUOTE=mlebled;51171810]These numbers are unfortunately not surprising when birth control pills have been linked to depression :([/QUOTE]
Isn't that a symptom of the particular pill not being adequate to the individual?
IIRC women often have to try different dosages to find one that suits them.
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