Swedish Cinemas Launch New Film Rating for Female Representation - Polidicks

I wonder if certain movies will begin to include token Bechdel scenes just so they pass the test.

This is stupid. Movie ratings are not segregated to one gender; they're for everyone.

[QUOTE=agentgamma;42783269]I wonder if certain movies will begin to include token Bechdel scenes just so they pass the test.[/QUOTE] Well, if they start doing that, it would at least mean that they care. Maybe screenwriters in writing those scenes would want to develop those characters more, which would be great.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;42781852]Wait, is this that uncommon?[/QUOTE] it's growing more and more uncommon. more films are able to pass this year than previous years i think. the percentage of movies that pass changes depending on genre, though. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42781818]Pulp fiction has 1 named female character (Uma Thurman), The fellowship of the ring has none, 2nd trilogy in the star wars movies only has Leah, etc. I realize what it's trying to do, but a lot of these movies lack in female leads. Is that sexism? Maybe. Maybe it's just how the movie was made. Of all the thousands of famous movies, a few are going to fail various tests like these.[/QUOTE] yea so maybe write in more female leads? women make up 51% of the population; they are WAY under-represented in film. [QUOTE=Bradyns;42781827]I'm sure most 'chick-flicks' would fail to meet this criteria.[/QUOTE] a lot of 'chick-flicks' sell patriarchal gender roles to women. just because something is intended for a female audience doesn't mean that it is empowering or progressive. a brief glance at the magazine rack at any grocery store proves this. [QUOTE=thisispain;42782141]like anita whatsherface said; "The Bechdel test is not a test for sexism and a movie can pass it and still be horribly sexist".[/QUOTE] true, but if your movie cannot even pass the bechdel test, an incredibly simple and easy test for any competent writer to pass, it does not bode well for the writing at all. it's sorta like a very basic minimum that most movies should pass.

[QUOTE=agentgamma;42783269]I wonder if certain movies will begin to include token Bechdel scenes just so they pass the test.[/QUOTE] I highly doubt anyone would go through the trouble of doing that considering how few people seem to care. [quote]Bio Rio is one of [B]four[/B] Swedish cinemas that launched the new rating last month to draw attention to how few movies pass the Bechdel test.[/quote] :v:

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;42783282]This is stupid. Movie ratings are not segregated to one gender; they're for everyone.[/QUOTE] I can't tell for sure from the article, but I think this is a separate rating from the regular one. Like movies have a violence/sex/profanity rating, and then a bechdel rating. It would be pretty weird if they didn't do that though.

[QUOTE=Aman;42783263]Why the fuck does this even exist. Since when was movies is anyway about being equal? It is meant to be someones vision, art. I know it isn't law or anything still just stupid to have it as a necessary criteria. Meh nevermind isn't that big of a deal, a movie analysis experiment of sorts I guess.[/QUOTE] the art that someone creates, their vision, is a reflection of their culture. their art also influences culture as well. it isn't necessarily the fault of any one writer if they write themes that may reflect inequality in society, but it can highlight problems with our culture. if artists take more conscious effort to create pieces that reflect equality, it can have an effect on the culture at large over time and contribute to a better outlook. basically, artist reflects cultural misogyny in art, that art helps perpetuate a culture of misogyny. the artist consciously adapting his or her work to glorify equality breaks this cycle.

im sure a lot of people would consider saints row 3 and 4 as sexist and both of those pass the test easily

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42781717]Also, most of these movies are based on scripts that are old as hell. Crying about sexism in a script thats 50 years old is obviously a little silly.[/QUOTE] How are Star Wars', Social Networks' and Harry Potter's scrips more than 50 years old?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42783303] true, but if your movie cannot even pass the bechdel test, an incredibly simple and easy test for any competent writer to pass, it does not bode well for the writing at all. it's sorta like a very basic minimum that most movies should pass.[/QUOTE] Luckily these ratings don't have any power over which films are allowed to be shown. The Bechdels test isn't exactly a good indicator of how well women are represented , Lord of the Rings has a few influential females, like Éowyn and those elves but since its basically a medieval war setting it makes complete sense for women to not be equally represented.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42783379]im sure a lot of people would consider saints row 3 and 4 as sexist and both of those pass the test easily[/QUOTE] How in the hell are Saints Row games sexist? Your male or female protagonist can fuck all the male, female and robot crew in Saints Row 4, for crying out loud. There's a mission where your protagonist gets infected by a virus that makes him or her wear strippers clothes and makes him or her do stripdancing. BOTH FOR MALE AND FEMALE PROTAGONIST! That's as far from sexist as you can get.

[QUOTE=Jack Trades;42783432] That's as far from sexist as you can get.[/QUOTE] It objectifies strippers and the world treats them like a commodity? Sexism in a game like Saints Row shouldn't even be something people care about.

With the way this test works fucking 127 Hours and a lot of other movies with only one or a few characters would fail. I am Legend (at least the non-extended version as far as I know) would fail, too. If the Metro book series were ever made into films, they'd fail. Maybe writers should decide which characters work best for their script rather than write or edit entire stories and characters around something completely irrelevant to the story itself. Like hell this quota is a competency test for writers.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42783408]Luckily these ratings don't have any power over which films are allowed to be shown. The Bechdels test isn't exactly a good indicator of how well women are represented , Lord of the Rings has a few influential females, like Éowyn and those elves but since its basically a medieval war setting it makes complete sense for women to not be equally represented.[/QUOTE] well yea i wouldn't want a creative work to be censored even if it could be argued to perpetuate inequality. but i think the bechdel test still provides a very simple way to look at trends in film writing and give a very simple indication of the writing quality of the movie. it isn't always correct, but it's a simple tool, and if you don't expect too much of it, it does what it's supposed to do adequately.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42783471]It objectifies strippers and the world treats them like a commodity? Sexism in a game like Saints Row shouldn't even be something people care about.[/QUOTE] "Stripper" isn't a sex. EDIT: I also thing that people SHOULD care about sexism in Saints Row, or to be more exact, the complete lack of sexism in it. It's one of the few modern games where sexism is near completely absent.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42783471]It objectifies strippers and the world treats them like a commodity? Sexism in a game like Saints Row shouldn't even be something people care about.[/QUOTE] idk the theme i got from saints row is that is a caricature of the culture we live in. the violence, sexism, drugs, etc., are all exaggerated to the point of sheer ridiculousness which makes it more of a parody of culture rather than glorifying sexism, drugs, or violence. i have no idea if that's what the people who created saints row intended but that's my interpretation of the world and writing style.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42783374]the art that someone creates, their vision, is a reflection of their culture. their art also influences culture as well. it isn't necessarily the fault of any one writer if they write themes that may reflect inequality in society, but it can highlight problems with our culture. if artists take more conscious effort to create pieces that reflect equality, it can have an effect on the culture at large over time and contribute to a better outlook. basically, artist reflects cultural misogyny in art, that art helps perpetuate a culture of misogyny. the artist consciously adapting his or her work to glorify equality breaks this cycle.[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you talking about. If someone wants to make a movie with all men and only men in it (or visa versa) why the hell does that matter. It's a movie.

[QUOTE=Jack Trades;42783432]How in the hell are Saints Row games sexist? Your male or female protagonist can fuck all the male, female and robot crew in Saints Row 4, for crying out loud. There's a mission where your protagonist gets infected by a virus that makes him or her wear strippers clothes and makes him or her do stripdancing. BOTH FOR MALE AND FEMALE PROTAGONIST! That's as far from sexist as you can get.[/QUOTE] To be fair, half of the gang's lieutenants are women and are portrayed as being very smart, savvy, and powerful. When they're portrayed as helpless, so are the men.

[QUOTE=Jack Trades;42783533]"Stripper" isn't a sex. [/QUOTE] They are all women. [editline]6th November 2013[/editline] yeah you have a point, I was mistaken.

Bechdel tests say very, very little about the actual content of a film, especially when the sex of the majority of the characters isn't taken into account. For example, Sucker Punch passed the Bechdel tests. It's a glorified steampunk softcore porn mag chock-full of sexual objectification with an incredibly weak plot that the all-female main cast discuss a couple times. On the flip side, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind didn't pass all 3 criteria of the Bechdel test. Forrest Gump entirely fails the Bechdel test. You'd be incredibly hard-pressed to claim that either of these films were sexist, and claiming that Forrest Gump supports the objectification of women is stupidly misguided and misses the purpose of the film. It's a neat little test, but it means about as much as sexism in film as the Turing test does about intelligence in automated-response AI.

[QUOTE=Aman;42783566]What the fuck are you talking about. If someone wants to make a movie with all men and only men in it (or visa versa) why the hell does that matter. It's a movie.[/QUOTE] media has a profound influence on our culture. writing in a way that leaves women under-represented or in the shadow or men not only reflects a culture of misogyny, it helps perpetuate it. we gain a lot of our conception of gender roles through movies, tv, music, video games, and books. artists should be aware of their collective influence on culture and work towards perpetuating a culture that they want to live in.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42783657]media has a profound influence on our culture. writing in a way that leaves women under-represented or in the shadow or men not only reflects a culture of misogyny, it helps perpetuate it. we gain a lot of our conception of gender roles through movies, tv, music, video games, and books. artists should be aware of their collective influence on culture and work towards perpetuating a culture that they want to live in.[/QUOTE] Who cares. Someone making a movie has no bullshit societal duty. I can make a movie about beheading women for an hour and a half and the only time they talk they talk about men. It's just creeping down some stupid implied censorship road.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;42783651]Bechdel tests say very, very little about the actual content of a film, especially when the sex of the majority of the characters isn't taken into account. For example, Sucker Punch passed the Bechdel tests. It's a glorified steampunk softcore porn mag chock-full of sexual objectification with an incredibly weak plot that the all-female main cast discuss a couple times. On the flip side, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind didn't pass all 3 criteria of the Bechdel test. Forrest Gump entirely fails the Bechdel test. You'd be incredibly hard-pressed to claim that either of these films were sexist, and claiming that Forrest Gump supports the objectification of women is stupidly misguided and misses the purpose of the film. It's a neat little test, but it means about as much as sexism in film as the Turing test does about intelligence in automated-response AI.[/QUOTE] it can help identify trends in writing in a similar way to the way bmi can identify trends regarding the health of a population. someone can be labeled "obese" on the bmi scale and really be a bodybuilder. however, if the population has an increasing number of people who are "obese" according to bmi, it probably means more fatties, not more bodybuilders. likewise, the bechdel test might give a very simple indication of writing quality with shaky accuracy. as you said, a movie might fail the bechdel test but really be a "forrest gump". however, if most movies suddenly started failing the bechdel test it probably means lower quality writing regarding women's representation in film, not more "forrest gumps". again, you gotta be realistic with whatever tools you are using. you can't expect an in depth accurate analysis of a movie's writing with a simple test that has 3 criteria that all have to be passed. you don't try to cut a board with a hammer.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;42783657]media has a profound influence on our culture. writing in a way that leaves women under-represented or in the shadow or men not only reflects a culture of misogyny, it helps perpetuate it. we gain a lot of our conception of gender roles through movies, tv, music, video games, and books. artists should be aware of their collective influence on culture and work towards perpetuating a culture that they want to live in.[/QUOTE] It's hardly the individual artisan's responsibility to manage cultural misogyny. Sure, they can, by writing strong female characters (Whedon could serve as an example), but saying that every individual who makes a piece of art should be expected to go beyond cultural norms in order to push past sexism is an unrealistic and over-idealistic concept. If I write a poem about sexual abuse which is incredibly graphic in nature, am I being sexist, or am I commenting on cultural acceptance of sexual abuse? Is Grand Theft Auto sexist, or is it commenting on the faults of American culture on topics like sex and drugs and crime? Also, it's incredibly biased to think that all artists want a world of gender equality. There's plenty who don't. They're cunts, sure, but saying that they should work towards perpetuating a culture that they want to live in is saying that misogynist artists should work together to promote abuse against women. It goes both ways. Collective responsibility for artistic works is silly - media changes as culture changes, not the other way.

[QUOTE=Aman;42783697]Who cares. Someone making a movie has no bullshit societal duty. I can make a movie about beheading women for an hour and a half and the only time they talk they talk about men. It's just creeping down some stupid implied censorship road.[/QUOTE] everyone who has an influence on society has a societal duty to perpetuate the society that they want to live in. it doesn't mean you have to write a certain way, it just means be more aware of the influence your writing has and making sure the ideas your writing puts forth are the ones you want it to put forth. i never implied censorship and my avatar should make it obvious that i don't support censorship.

totally not surprise this is in Sweden, this test literally does nothing but give feminists the chance to call sexism

[QUOTE=.Isak.;42783719]It's hardly the individual artisan's responsibility to manage cultural misogyny. Sure, they can, by writing strong female characters (Whedon could serve as an example), but saying that every individual who makes a piece of art should be expected to go beyond cultural norms in order to push past sexism is an unrealistic and over-idealistic concept. If I write a poem about sexual abuse which is incredibly graphic in nature, am I being sexist, or am I commenting on cultural acceptance of sexual abuse? Is Grand Theft Auto sexist, or is it commenting on the faults of American culture on topics like sex and drugs and crime?[/quote] that's actually sort of what i'm trying to say. your art is a reflection of the culture you are part of, but it also has an influence. when you realize this and analyze your own work you can begin to do stuff like "commenting on the faults of american culture". it's about artists being in control of their work and actually realizing that they have influence in society. so in that sense you could write a very progressive movie that won't pass the bechdel test because you purposely made it a commentary of societal attitudes. when you do this, you are no longer perpetuating a culture of misogyny, you are highlighting it or denouncing it. [quote]Also, it's incredibly biased to think that all artists want a world of gender equality. There's plenty who don't. They're cunts, sure, but saying that they should work towards perpetuating a culture that they want to live in is saying that misogynist artists should work together to promote abuse against women. It goes both ways. Collective responsibility for artistic works is silly - media changes as culture changes, not the other way.[/QUOTE] i would feel like a pompous prick if i said that "only artists who agree with what i believe makes a good society should be aware of their art and message". yea, some people will want to perpetuate attitudes i think are harmful, but human beings have a right to create works that push their own ideas and beliefs. really i think most artists don't feel to strongly either way because their work is probably meant to put forward a different message entirely. they should still be aware of the way their writing might inadvertently perpetuate societal attitudes so there are less unintended messages in the movie. at the very least, it makes the movie more "neutral".

[QUOTE=Aman;42783263]Why the fuck does this even exist. Since when was movies is anyway about being equal? It is meant to be someones vision, art. [/QUOTE] are you asking why critique exists

[QUOTE=thisispain;42783970]are you asking why critique exists[/QUOTE] criticism for the sake of criticism is about as useful and relevant as a decomposing bird

[QUOTE=Pelican;42783986]criticism for the sake of criticism is about as useful and relevant as a decomposing bird[/QUOTE] i dont know what that means