Im fortunate to have a free education from the government, so i don't have to fear for my whole future based on the career of my choosing.
[QUOTE=sami-pso;36052503]Wow! are you kidding me? Who has that kind of money other than rich people!?[/QUOTE]
That's why you're in debt. If you had that kind of money, you wouldn't be in debt.
[QUOTE=download;36047996]University should be like every other education, paid by the government[/QUOTE]
Sadly this will never happen in the US until the education "system" literally crashes, the government crashes, we get invaded, or etc.
Just like how there are too many highly paid doctors in place who love being figureheads to allow national healthcare to take place in the US (because there is no way any feasable country would ever be able to pay for the extremely inflated doctor bills we currently have), there's way too much money going into these universities, both private and public, to ever "allow" affordable education to happen. The more they can get people in debt, the better - and the larger the debt the better. They make much more money that way.
For education to be free, it would need to seriously be cheaper. For it to seriously be cheaper, there'd have to be a A LOT of people let go, a lot of things downsized, and a lot of the expected-income for a university to simply be cut in half. None of that will happen as long as the people who lead such "industries" remain in power, and continue to have incentive to simply have as much money as possible.
Then there is the issue of everyone and their mother wanting to get one, now that it would be free. Even if it's totallly inappropreate. There would need to be an extreme overhaul of standards to make it so it can be semi-hard to even get into a local state-owned college, in order to prevent massive academic degradation, and overpopulation of universities. People in US have in engrained into their brains that they need to spend a shit ton of cash at university to get anywhere - and the extensive advertising for private colleges reinforce this notion. If college was suddenly free for the US, you'd suddenly find everyone going to college just because it's been percieved as this allmighty thing to get a high paying job (when in reality, for 90% of degrees out there, it's simply a tool and a way to become more educated). I don't know it's just... I feel like nationalized education works very well in scandinavian countries because they are small, and generally the mindset is different there when it comes to education. Even if education wasn't a massive profitable industry in the US, I'd just find it hard to see anything come out of it other than 90% of those who hold a degree, now hold a worthless degree.
There's also the issue of what do the people who are in $50k worht of debt already, do? They surely would get angry at the thought of the education THEY paid for and suffered for, suddenly being free for everyone else. I mean, it's pretty short sighted and selfish, but there's a huge amount of the population who would feel like they got the short end of the stick compaired to the students who are about to go into a 100% free university education.
But either way, it's all fucked up, and it will never happen. College education in the US is a massive industry where the predominant mindset is that you spend more money than anything else in your life, so you can "invest" into your future. Even if it means paying extortionist prices. The govt will never be able to afford putting everyone in college, the established system will never be able to support that, and employers probably wouldn't either (we already kind of have academic inflation already - where more and more people are getting degrees, so a Bachellors is becoming more and more worthless).
The best we can hope for is a new type of college that opens its doors, deals with a smaller budget, and is really cheap in order to compete with expensive universities. Like a community college, but offering the full college experience. Or what would need to happen is everyone literally not buying into education anymore, to the point that colleges simply aren't getting people to go to them after they realize their degrees are over-vauled, which will cause successful colleges to lower their tuition considerably.
Adding in the fact that most fields are now worthless due to the high supply of people looking for those jobs and the low demand of people needing someone for it. College in the US at least will need a reform in the coming years, or I expect it to collapse entirely when the rest of the country realizes how utterly worthless it is becoming, due in no small part to rising prices outweighing the benefits.
[editline]22nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=KorJax;36053668](we already kind of have academic inflation already - where more and more people are getting degrees, so a Bachellors is becoming more and more worthless).
[/QUOTE]
"College degrees are becoming the equivalent of high school degrees." Is something I've been saying for years. The market is truly saturated right now.
[QUOTE=Axznma;36053686]Adding in the fact that most fields are now worthless due to the high supply of people looking for those jobs and the low demand of people needing someone for it. College in the US at least will need a reform in the coming years, or I expect it to collapse entirely when the rest of the country realizes how utterly worthless it is becoming, due in no small part to rising prices outweighing the benefits.[/QUOTE]
There's no real reform to do - everything is so set in stone it would literally take decades worth of changing mindsets and policy making to get even a basic stepping stone to a better idea in place. The only way I could ever see the current college situation changing in the US, is if it crashes and burns forcing a reform.
It sucks because 99% of the time, its a waste to pay such large amounts of money for some universities. My community college is dirt cheap (about $900 a semester full time), and really affordable. It's one of the top community colleges in the nation, and I've honestly had a better, more eye-opening and solidified education there than I currently have had in my past year at the local state university, even though it costs 6X more. But people here in the US seem to only care about getting X degree from Y school, etc. It's not about how good the actual institution is with their education, policies, etc... it's all about what their graduation numbers are, how much they are (because high cost = high value in peoples minds), how many people get X in honors, etc. Education is all about the numbers and how good you can get those numbers, not really about the education itself. There's a false idea that in order to be well taught you have to spend money twoards the best of the best schools. When in reality, colleges like my local community college prove otherwise. Hell our design department had a full design studio with a brand new professional printing press proofer for printing out professional-looking designs onto various substrates. And yet it was cheap to go there. But because it's a "community college", and people think you need to spend loads of money to get anywhere, other colleges don't follow suit (plus.. they'd make less overall profit!)
everyone knows that the more money u have the more intelligent you are
this is the perfect way to separate the weak from the strong
Why don't you americans do what us british do and simply have people pay back the loan over a very long time with small payments each month, which they only pay back if they're earning over a certain amount?
[QUOTE=KorJax;36053797]There's no real reform to do - everything is so set in stone it would literally take decades worth of changing mindsets and policy making to get even a basic stepping stone to a better idea in place. The only way I could ever see the current college situation changing in the US, is if it crashes and burns forcing a reform.
It sucks because 99% of the time, its a waste to pay such large amounts of money for some universities. My community college is dirt cheap (about $900 a semester full time), and really affordable. It's one of the top community colleges in the nation, and I've honestly had a better, more eye-opening and solidified education there than I currently have had in my past year at the local state university, even though it costs 6X more. But people here in the US seem to only care about getting X degree from Y school, etc. It's not about how good the actual institution is with their education, policies, etc... it's all about what their graduation numbers are, how much they are (because high cost = high value in peoples minds), how many people get X in honors, etc. Education is all about the numbers and how good you can get those numbers, not really about the education itself. There's a false idea that in order to be well taught you have to spend money twoards the best of the best schools. When in reality, colleges like my local community college prove otherwise. Hell our design department had a full design studio with a brand new professional printing press proofer for printing out professional-looking designs onto various substrates. And yet it was cheap to go there. But because it's a "community college", and people think you need to spend loads of money to get anywhere, other colleges don't follow suit (plus.. they'd make less overall profit!)[/QUOTE]
It's true that education quality itself isn't necessarily dependent on the school you go to, however getting a degree from a place like Harvard will get you further in your field if you're in something high tier. As unfortunate as it is to admit, a Harvard or Stanford degree carries prestige whereas a degree from some local college carries little to none in comparison, and in many top tier fields that prestige matters almost as much as the education. You're also more likely to make friends in high places at a college with deep pockets. And anyone that's been around the career block a few times knows the golden rule: It's not what you know but who you know -- The Good Boys Club.
Of course that's more a problem with the people employing others than anything else. It's rather depressing to consider the sheer number of problems the US has with the education system and its impact on society here. I tarry the thought of thinking about the global educational issues.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36053966]Why don't you americans do what us british do and simply have people pay back the loan over a very long time with small payments each month, which they only pay back if they're earning over a certain amount?[/QUOTE]
It's still absolutely retarded that tuitions are 9k pounds a year for [I]any[/I] University basically.
Its even more horrendous in the States.
[QUOTE=Axznma;36057714]It's true that education quality itself isn't necessarily dependent on the school you go to, however getting a degree from a place like Harvard will get you further in your field if you're in something high tier. As unfortunate as it is to admit, a Harvard or Stanford degree carries prestige whereas a degree from some local college carries little to none in comparison, and in many top tier fields that prestige matters almost as much as the education. You're also more likely to make friends in high places at a college with deep pockets. And anyone that's been around the career block a few times knows the golden rule: It's not what you know but who you know -- The Good Boys Club.
Of course that's more a problem with the people employing others than anything else. It's rather depressing to consider the sheer number of problems the US has with the education system and its impact on society here. I tarry the thought of thinking about the global educational issues.[/QUOTE]
While true, this only really applies to a select few "highest payout" degrees (like law), and only applies to "top tier" employers who will only hire either:
1. Someone who graduated from Harvard or
2. Somone who has a lot of known experience in their field
You can be a successful lawyer easily if you've never been to harvard but studied at a local university. You just probably won't be able to land jobs at top tier law positions I.E. personal laywer for a major corporation, someone famous, for a very prestigious firm, etc. If that's your goal, then you probably want harvard.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
