Man who feared mass shootings brings gun to movie theater, accidentally shoots woman

[EdvardSchnitz]

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49617283]No you fucking don't lol, stop that shit[/QUOTE]

Of course, he carries a gun just to carry a gun and shoot random people.

Do you honestly ever hear yourself?

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;49616989]I'm not fear it's just common sense as far as I see it. If there is a danger of something happening, no matter how remote, than figure out how to save yourself.

I don't go to Home Depot, buy a fire extinguisher and have the cashier say "It must be hard living in fear all the time."

And go figure I've used a fire extinguisher before to stop a fire that could potentially kill someone or destroy property. It wasn't specifically fear or paranoia, it was common sense to have a fire extinguisher incase you needed one.[/QUOTE]

the difference is that a fire is something caused by negligence or a malfunction, whereas bringing a firearm into a cinema is fear of another citizen attacking you

you're not buying a fire extinguisher out of fear of arson, that'd be paranoia

arming yourself to fight off other citizens is completely incomparable to a fire extinguisher - it's a pretty big joke that anyone could think that it is

[Paul-Simon]

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;49616716]Mass shootings have happened in theaters more than once around here. I, for one, want a fighting chance to get myself or my family out of there.[/QUOTE]

It's kind of sad that this shit is a real concern in parts of America.

[Timebomb575]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617317]the difference is that a fire is something caused by negligence or a malfunction, whereas bringing a firearm into a cinema is fear of another citizen attacking you

you're not buying a fire extinguisher out of fear of arson, that'd be paranoia[/QUOTE]

would having a burglar alarm be paranoia then, in that case?

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49617323]would having a burglar alarm be paranoia then, in that case?[/QUOTE]

property crime is far more prevalent than assault or homicide in a public place in the UK

also, once again, installing a burglar alarm in your property is not a comparable measure to carrying a firearm.

[Timebomb575]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617340]property crime is far more prevalent than assault or homicide in a public place in the UK

also, once again, installing a burglar alarm in your property is not a comparable measure to carrying a firearm.[/QUOTE]

Just based on the wording of your previous post, you seemed to imply that it was the fear of "other citizens" that made concealed carry a paranoid thing to do. Im just pointing out the fact that people do lots of stuff out of fear of what other people might do (locking doors, carrying rape alarms, taking self defense classes, etc.) and I certianly wouldnt call that paranoid.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49617368]Just based on the wording of your previous post, you seemed to imply that it was the fear of "other citizens" that made concealed carry a paranoid thing to do. Im just pointing out the fact that people do lots of stuff out of fear of what other people might do (locking doors, carrying rape alarms, taking self defense classes, etc.) and I certianly wouldnt call that paranoid.[/QUOTE]

right, but the original argument here is that it's indicative of a problem in America that people consider carrying firearms as a 'common sense' activity for defence

i suppose you're right really, it's not paranoia if you believe that shootings are prevalent enough that you an justify having a firearm - but then you're admitting the point of people saying that america has a serious problem

the fact that there's a comparison being made here between firearms and common safety items such as fire alarms, fire extinguishers and burglar alarms is basically admitting that, when people say the american situation is a sad case of affairs as you have to arm yourselves out of fear, they're pretty much right.

[Geel]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617386]right, but the original argument here is that it's indicative of a problem in America that people consider carrying firearms as a 'common sense' activity for defence

i suppose you're right really, it's not paranoia if you believe that shootings are prevalent enough that you an justify having a firearm - but then you're admitting the point of people saying that america has a serious problem

the fact that there's a comparison being made here between firearms and common safety items such as fire alarms, fire extinguishers and burglar alarms is basically admitting that, when people say the american situation is a sad case of affairs as you have to arm yourselves out of fear, they're pretty much right.[/QUOTE]

one can agree that america has a "mass shooting" problem (even though really it doesn't) without agreeing that the solution is stricter gun control.

[Cloak_Raider]

so either you either have the situation where carrying a firearm is paranoia because america's gun issue isn't severe, or it isn't because it's justified - as the situation in america justifies carrying a firearm to defend yourself.

[QUOTE=geel9;49617390]one can agree that america has a "mass shooting" problem (even though really it doesn't) without agreeing that the solution is stricter gun control.[/QUOTE]

nobody even mentioned gun control in this thread (other than CodeMonkey, the person who is concealed carrying)

[27X]

[QUOTE=Killuah;49617313]I also don't get how that makes people feel safer.
I mean, just seeing my own idiocy with things sometimes and then seeing how I am probably still less idiotic than a good portion of the general public.

How does your own gun make you feel any safer when you know that every idot can get a gun permit too.[/QUOTE]

Why would you ever assume everyone on planet earth thinks and feels and acts like you, that's some milkandcooki level cognitive dissonance right there.

Can you build a car from memory?

Design a bridge?

Dunk on a standard height basketball goal?

[catbarf]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617386]but then you're admitting the point of people saying that america has a serious problem[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617394]so either you either have the situation where carrying a firearm is paranoia because america's gun issue isn't severe, or it isn't because it's justified - as the situation in america justifies carrying a firearm to defend yourself.[/QUOTE]

Find me Facepunchers who think America doesn't have a problem with violence and homicide. I'll wait.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617394]nobody even mentioned gun control in this thread (other than CodeMonkey, the person who is concealed carrying)[/QUOTE]

He probably brought up gun control because the only people to imply that Americans don't recognize our social problems are gun control advocates trying to idiotically state that if you're against feel-good gun control measures you're for the status quo.

Of course America has a problem, that's why some people choose to arm themselves for self-defense. Do you seriously think you're going to get disagreement there? Have you ever seen Detroit? The nuance is that [i]mass shootings[/i] are statistically extremely unlikely compared to mugging, burglary, and homicide. It is not hard to say that America has a huge problem with violence, but mass shootings are a sensational but ultimately extremely minor and statistically insignificant part of that problem.

[editline]27th January 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=AngryChairR;49617238]As someone with a conceal carry permit, why do you have a conceal carry permit if you don't fear being involved in a shooting?[/QUOTE]

I have locks on my doors, it doesn't mean I [i]quake in fear[/i] at the thought of being burglarized.

Shit happens. People prepare for it.

[QUOTE=AngryChairR;49617238]America is pretty much a war zone[/QUOTE]

No it's fucking not. If you're not an inner-city gang member you are [i]far[/i] more likely to grow old and die of a heart attack than you are to be shot. You are [i]far[/i] more likely to die in a car crash than you are to be shot. Nobody likens America to Mad Max because of our vehicular deaths (which outnumber homicide deaths!), but calling America a warzone because of our homicide is par for the course from condescendingly shitposting Europeans in these threads.

I am statistically extremely unlikely to be killed in a car crash but I wear my always seatbelt and drive a car well-rated for safety. If an event is [i]unlikely[/i] but that event could result in my death it makes sense to be prepared for it. It is possible to simultaneously recognize an event as extremely unlikely and also take measures to prepare for it.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=catbarf;49617483]Find me Facepunchers who think America doesn't have a problem with violence and homicide. I'll wait.

He probably brought up gun control because the only people to imply that Americans don't recognize our social problems are gun control advocates trying to idiotically state that if you're against feel-good gun control measures you're for the status quo.

Of course America has a problem, that's why some people choose to arm themselves for self-defense. Do you seriously think you're going to get disagreement there? Have you ever seen Detroit? The nuance is that [I]mass shootings[/I] are statistically extremely unlikely compared to mugging, burglary, and homicide. It is not hard to say that America has a huge problem with violence, but mass shootings are a sensational but ultimately extremely minor and statistically insignificant part of that problem.
[/QUOTE]

right
so you think that bringing a gun to a cinema for a mass shooting is paranoia then?

as for facepunchers who don't consider it a problem, read this thread

you have people who consider self defence with a firearm in the same vain as a fire extinguisher - that's not seeing carrying a firearm as a product of a poor situation, but rather a sensible inevitability

you don't have a fire extinguisher in your house because of a 'fire problem' - the comparison is ridiculous

[GarrettFox]

[QUOTE=AngryChairR;49617238]As someone with a conceal carry permit, why do you have a conceal carry permit if you don't fear being involved in a shooting?

America is pretty much a war zone, from a selfish point of view it's actually very understandable that people carry guns for protection.[/QUOTE]

Two reasons:

1.) Camping. I carry while camping and that frequently means out of state as well. Most of the states legally don't care how you carry when outside of city limits, but vary pretty heavily inside. A CC permit makes it all much easier. I carry while camping because there is all manner of shit here that will eat you. I also carry bear spray. I don't generally imagine that I need to carry for protection against people when I'm camping deep in the woods, but it is nice to have all the same.

2.) My job. Without going into detail, I put about three to four people in jail a month. I then run into them later as part of my job or months later on the street. Mostly they have all been super cool about it, but a few have had me worried in the past. Taking precautions here seems generally like an okay idea.

I don't fear a mass shooting. I don't really even fear a regular shooting. I just like having an option in the event I'm faced with any sort of serious assault .

[Bruhmis]

every time one of these threads pop up, all I can think is "thank god english people have no say in american politics."

if you're comfortable with having a gun on you and you don't suffer from any kind of mental illness then there is not a single good reason why you shouldn't carry a gun unless you just don't feel like it that day.

Cons:
You have a 2-4 pounds of extra weight on you

Pros:
it can save your fucking life

[Fulcrum]

[QUOTE=GunFox;49617549]Two reasons:

1.) Camping. I carry while camping and that frequently means out of state as well. Most of the states legally don't care how you carry when outside of city limits, but vary pretty heavily inside. A CC permit makes it all much easier. I carry while camping because there is all manner of shit here that will eat you. I also carry bear spray. I don't generally imagine that I need to carry for protection against people when I'm camping deep in the woods, but it is nice to have all the same.

2.) My job. Without going into detail, I put about three to four people in jail a month. I then run into them later as part of my job or months later on the street. Mostly they have all been super cool about it, but a few have had me worried in the past. Taking precautions here seems generally like an okay idea.

I don't fear a mass shooting. I don't really even fear a regular shooting. I just like having an option in the event I'm faced with any sort of serious assault .[/QUOTE]

Not sure if I missed something but carrying a gun in the woods/as a police guy, with a genuine and rational fear for your safety, is different from someone carrying a gun "coz muh defence". Far more likely to be killed by someone you have previously met or a bear than by a random stranger.

At work you keep scum off of the street, at home you keep the scum off of the site.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49617704]every time one of these threads pop up, all I can think is "thank god english people have no say in american politics."

if you're comfortable with having a gun on you and you don't suffer from any kind of mental illness then there is not a single good reason why you shouldn't carry a gun unless you just don't feel like it that day.

Cons:
You have a 2-4 pounds of extra weight on you

Pros:
it can save your fucking life[/QUOTE]

ok

i think the sentiment from most english people whenever yet another thread about a shooting in america occurs is "thank god i don't live in america"

[J.C.DentonUNATCO]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617790]ok

i think the sentiment from most english people whenever yet another thread about a shooting in america occurs is "thank god i don't live in america"[/QUOTE]

And the sentiment of most american people whenever yet another thread about a mass terrorist shooting in Europe occurs is "thank god I don't live in Europe"

Oh wait that's retarded, and so is anyone that thinks what you stated.

[Fulcrum]

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49617704]every time one of these threads pop up, all I can think is "thank god english people have no say in american politics."

if you're comfortable with having a gun on you and you don't suffer from any kind of mental illness then there is not a single good reason why you shouldn't carry a gun unless you just don't feel like it that day.

Cons:
You have a 2-4 pounds of extra weight on you

Pros:
it can save your fucking life[/QUOTE]

Cons: accidentally shoot innocents/yourself, means police are more likely to shoot first and ask questions later, market is saturated with cheap, highquality firearms making them more available to criminals, small [URL="http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/tragic-misunderstanding-leads-shooting-death-through-door"]misunderstandings[/URL] or [URL="http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/shooting-erupts-tukwila-bar/nF9cz/"]fights[/URL] can escalate to become deadly. Weapon effect leads to changes in behaviour and an increase in aggression or violence. 1-2 kilos of extra weight.

Pros: fun hobby, fun to play with, looks cool, gives confidence, could use useful to kill a bear, could be a nifty hammer or in some cases a bottle opener, could be used to kill armed criminals while they raid your wifes business HQ during a christmas party to steal $640 million in negotiable bearer bonds. Extra weight could help tone leg muscles.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;49617815]And the sentiment of most american people whenever yet another thread about a mass terrorist shooting in Europe occurs is "thank god I don't live in Europe"

Oh wait that's retarded, and so is anyone that thinks what you stated.[/QUOTE]

are you implying that there's as many terrorist mass shootings in Europe as there are shootings in america

because when you say mass terrorist shooting in Europe i probably know which one you're talking about, but if you said shooting in america i'd probably ask "which one?"

no, it's actually pretty reasonable not to want to live somewhere because of violent crime - it's not reasonable to bring up nationality in an attempt to stifle argument - which is exactly what the post above was doing

[Timebomb575]

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49617819]Cons: accidentally shoot innocents/yourself, means police are more likely to shoot first and ask questions later, market is saturated with cheap, highquality firearms making them more available to criminals, small [URL="http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/tragic-misunderstanding-leads-shooting-death-through-door"]misunderstandings[/URL] or [URL="http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/shooting-erupts-tukwila-bar/nF9cz/"]fights[/URL] can escalate to become deadly. Weapon effect leads to changes in behaviour and an increase in aggression or violence. 1-2 kilos of extra weight.

Pros: fun hobby, fun to play with, looks cool, gives confidence, could use useful to kill a bear, could be a nifty hammer or in some cases a bottle opener, [B]could be used to kill armed criminals while they raid your wifes business HQ during a christmas party to steal $640 million in negotiable bearer bonds. Extra weight could help tone leg muscles.[/B][/QUOTE]

cant say I agree with your position, but you fuckin' got me good there :v:

[catbarf]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617543]right
so you think that bringing a gun to a cinema for a mass shooting is paranoia then?[/QUOTE]

If someone carries a concealed gun only to the cinema for the express purpose of evading a mass shooting then yes, that's paranoia.

If someone carries a concealed gun when they're in public for the purpose of evading a mugging or other crime and the movie theater happens to be in public, then no, that's not paranoia. They're already carrying, there's no reason to disarm. The possibility of being able to stop a mass shooting is extraordinarily remote but there's little reason [I]not[/I] to keep carrying like they always do.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617543]as for facepunchers who don't consider it a problem, read this thread[/QUOTE]

I read it. I'm not seeing anyone who considers violence in America to not be a problem.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617543]you have people who consider self defence with a firearm in the same vain as a fire extinguisher - that's not seeing carrying a firearm as a product of a poor situation, but rather a sensible inevitability

you don't have a fire extinguisher in your house because of a 'fire problem' - the comparison is ridiculous[/QUOTE]

And I don't understand your objection to the comparison at all. Both are objects people purchase and keep available to prevent possible harm. An ounce of prevention better than a pound of cure.

Are you trying to imply that taking steps to protect yourself means accepting violence as an inevitability and not wanting to reduce it? Because that doesn't follow. I wear a seatbelt because people in my area routinely violate traffic laws, does that mean I see dying in a car crash as a 'sensible inevitability' and not a 'poor situation' that I'd like to see improved? I keep a fire extinguisher because my house is old and made of flammable material, does that mean I see my whole house burning down a 'sensible inevitability' and not a 'poor situation' that I'm looking to solve by moving elsewhere?

I don't keep a fire extinguisher in my house because of a 'fire problem'. I don't keep a gun in my house because of a 'gun problem'. I keep a fire extinguisher in my house because fire is a risk that I cannot prevent but can try to mitigate. I keep a gun in my house because home invasion is a risk that I cannot prevent but can try to mitigate. I don't see any significant distinction between the two coming from you.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49617819]while they raid your wifes business HQ during a christmas party to steal $640 million in negotiable bearer bonds. Extra weight could help tone leg muscles.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49617965]cant say I agree with your position, but you fuckin' got me good there :v:[/QUOTE]

the way that alan rickman says "FBI" in that film in the power cut scene is literally nothing short of art

[quote=CatBarf]Are you trying to imply that taking steps to protect yourself means accepting violence as an inevitability and not wanting to reduce it? Because that doesn't follow. I wear a seatbelt because people in my area routinely violate traffic laws, does that mean I see dying in a car crash as a 'sensible inevitability' and not a 'poor situation' that I'd like to see improved? I keep a fire extinguisher because my house is old and made of flammable material, does that mean I see my whole house burning down a 'sensible inevitability' and not a 'poor situation' that I'm looking to solve by moving elsewhere?

I don't keep a fire extinguisher in my house because of a 'fire problem'. I don't keep a gun in my house because of a 'gun problem'. I keep a fire extinguisher in my house because fire is a risk that I cannot prevent but can try to mitigate. I keep a gun in my house because home invasion is a risk that I cannot prevent but can try to mitigate. I don't see any significant distinction between the two coming from you.[/quote]

because a fire extinguisher and a seatbelt both serve a singular safety purpose, explicitly applicable in the instances where they are required and not dangerous otherwise. (sure you could make an argument that someone could use a pressurised fire extinguisher as a bomb if heated or something, but this is unrealistic)

in the case of the thread, the man brought a gun because he was attempting to mitigate the danger of being attacked by a man with a gun

if you're coming at it from the perspective that i'm coming from, that the prevalence of guns is at least partially responsible for the amount of violent gun crime, then you'd see the insanity of people justifying the use of items in their country to defend themselves against a threat which that item is partially responsible for - that increasingly relying on firearms for defence is exacerbating the problem of firearms in the first place

i don't expect you to agree, but i really don't think fire extinguishers are comparable to guns in any way - because my point of view, the distinction is as simple as this. if you had everyone buy a fire extinguisher, you'd probably see the threat caused by fires drop significantly, if you had everyone buy a gun, would you see the same drop?

[Protocol7]

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49617283]No you fucking don't lol, stop that shit[/QUOTE]

Wow yep you reached deep into the psyche of every gun owner, all we want to do is gun down random people because of our inane power fantasies, yep mhmm.

[Araknid]

Imagine living in fear of getting shot when going to a movie.

[Timebomb575]

[QUOTE=Araknid;49618013]Imagine living in fear of getting shot when going to a movie.[/QUOTE]

so did you deliberately ignore all the responses after someone said this exact thing on the first page, or are you just trolling?

[Bruhmis]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49617790]ok

i think the sentiment from most english people whenever yet another thread about a shooting in america occurs is "thank god i don't live in america"[/QUOTE]

the sentiment is basically "I am completely uninformed about this situation but this is a great opportunity for me to feel superior so let me just make a quick copy+paste [B]AMERICA xD LMAO[/B] post".

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49618037]the sentiment is basically "I am completely uninformed about this situation but this is a great opportunity for me to feel superior so let me just make a quick copy+paste [B]AMERICA xD LMAO[/B] post".[/QUOTE]

weren't you arguing previously that a guy with a knife was just as dangerous as a guy with a gun

[Jawyen]

I don't want to argue for any side, but on one hand things would likely be a lot safer in the US if the gun control was different. On the other, it's already gone too far to likely make a change and get it off the streets.

But for people who argue that its very existence and distribution is a positive thing, I do not understand the reasoning.
People everywhere seem perfectly fine in pointing out the flaws and stupidity in countless things we as human beings do all over the world, messed up standards, political views, life choices etc etc.
Most Americans do also seem to agree how extremely flawed so many of your educational and economical systems at their very core are and how that obviously can breed unawareness and other various flawed morals.

So since we are so aware that people are people and people make mistakes, people make bad judgement calls, or people are just generally bad, why do we all of a sudden believe that the world can be responsible and rational in every regard and situation with guns if given?

[dai]

The OP case is an ironic outlier and shows paranoia makes people awful with common sense and safety. Cod3 seems pretty cool about how and why he needs to carry and that's a totally different story- it's always funny seeing people argue with himg on whether he needs a gun or not when he's a security guard that works in a tough area where other people who held the same position in recent memory have been stabbed or shot at over trivial garbage

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=dai;49618079]The OP case is an ironic outlier and shows paranoia makes people awful with common sense and safety. Cod3 seems pretty cool about how and why he needs to carry and that's a totally different story- it's always funny seeing people argue with himg on whether he needs a gun or not when he's a security guard that works in a tough area where other people who held the same position in recent memory have been stabbed or shot at over trivial garbage[/QUOTE]

i don't think a single post in this thread has actually said that americans shouldn't have guns

what has been posted is that people think it's incredibly sad that americans feel they NEED to have guns as a common sense safety measure in line with fire extinguishers

the closest that has been posted to this, is the post that i just made above