• Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly
    413 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068448]Okay, 1.8 seconds in the tip of the golf club comes down side of your neck, effectively stunning you. 3 whacks to the face later and you are in a vegetative state and won't wake up for lord knows how long. Yes, your cop buddies will likely take him down before he kills you, but you are looking at large amounts of muscular and neurological damage and years of recovery.[/QUOTE] You know he had other people with him and with 1.8 seconds you can tell if the man is charging to you or not.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068456]You know he had other people with him and with 1.8 seconds you can tell if the man is charging to you or not.[/QUOTE] When's the last time you were attacked by a person with a bat or other blunt instrument? I've been mugged a few times and believe me those few seconds go by much faster than you think. It's more like: Oh, you want my wallet -OHGODISTHATABAT *WHAM* *lay on the ground wheezing for air as they empty your pockets and flip you over, adding insult to injury as they leave you with bruised ribs and no wallet/cellphone*
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;27068181]Because SWAT training takes a human and turns him into a [B][I]superhuman[/I][/B] You heard it here first guys.[/QUOTE] nice strawman I expect SWAT to be able to tell the difference between [img]http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/3733/5032golf_club.jpg[/img] and [img]http://www.yeboafrica.com/africa/images/lg-spear-01.jpg[/img] The guy was obviously holding it with 2 hands. So what are the options? It sure as hell wasn't a gun because that's not how you hold one. You don't hold a machete/sword with 2 hands, at least not in that position. So all you're down to is a spear. Do you really expect to find a spear in some meth dealer's house in the middle of the united states?
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068456]You know he had other people with him and with 1.8 seconds you can tell if the man is charging to you or not.[/QUOTE] Read what I said before. [B]1.5 seconds to cover 6 meters.[/B] Take a rough guess at the distance between the officers and the man when he appeared. Hint: it's not 6 meters. So if we want to get technical. That officer has less than 1.5 seconds to judge whether a guy wielding an object in an aggressive pose is going to charge him or not.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068488]When's the last time you were attacked by a person with a bat or other blunt instrument? I've been mugged a few times and believe me those few seconds go by much faster than you think. It's more like: Oh, you want my wallet -OHGODISTHATABAT *WHAM* *lay on the ground wheezing for air as they empty your pockets and flip you over, adding insult to injury as they leave you with bruised ribs and no wallet/cellphone*[/QUOTE] you are able to tell if someone has a gun or not in that time and if they are charging. this should be so especially if you are a cop.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068489]nice strawman I expect SWAT to be able to tell the difference between [img_thumb]http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/3733/5032golf_club.jpg[/img_thumb] and [img_thumb]http://www.yeboafrica.com/africa/images/lg-spear-01.jpg[/img_thumb] The guy was obviously holding it with 2 hands. So what are the options? It sure as hell wasn't a gun because that's not how you hold one. You don't hold a machete/sword with 2 hands, at least not in that position. So all you're down to is a spear. Do you really expect to find a spear in some meth dealer's house in the middle of the united states?[/QUOTE] Fireplace poker. Bat. Lead pipe. Machetes can and are commonly wielded with two hands by inexperienced people. Which would you rather take a whack to the neck from, completely incapacitating you and putting you and your colleagues at risk as he dives back into the hall to find his pistol. You go be a police officer and tell me about all the times you put faith in the goodness of drug dealers and criminals.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;27068517]Read what I said before. [B]1.5 seconds to cover 6 meters.[/B] Take a rough guess at the distance between the officers and the man when he appeared. Hint: it's not 6 meters. So if we want to get technical. That officer has less than 1.5 seconds to judge whether a guy wielding an object in an aggressive pose is going to charge him or not.[/QUOTE] yes but since there was a turn he had to do it gives the cop some time.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068489]nice strawman I expect SWAT to be able to tell the difference between The guy was obviously holding it with 2 hands. So what are the options? It sure as hell wasn't a gun because that's not how you hold one. You don't hold a machete/sword with 2 hands, at least not in that position. So all you're down to is a spear. Do you really expect to find a spear in some meth dealer's house in the middle of the united states?[/QUOTE] My comment was in regard you to saying the SWAT officers had ample time to react and judge the situation. Furthermore, what the fuck did you bring up a spear for? That's totally irrelevant. A golf club is a weapon capable of inflicting serious physical trauma. I never said they mistook it for a gun. I'm saying it doesn't matter [B]even if they didn't mistake it for a gun[/B]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068520]you are able to tell if someone has a gun or not in that time and if they are charging. this should be so especially if you are a cop.[/QUOTE] what are you going to do anyway when you realize it's a blunt object? You'd be hardpressed to beat them in hand to hand because...they have a hard blunt object, and you could be killed by trying. Your only option is to TASER them (which, since the cop had his gun out would have taken too long to take out of its holster) or just shoot them.
[img]http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/253286_front500.jpg[/img] This is a fireplace poker. It weighs roughly 4 pounds and is 30 inches long, extending your reach by roughly 2 and a half feet. At the end of that 2 and a half feet is a curved spike, which is now traveling faster [and with more inertia] than the wielder could ever swing his fist. It will break jaws, puncture thick clothing and flesh, fracture ribs and arms, and shatter hands/shins. Have fun with that. [editline]30th December 2010[/editline] I think it is funny that kids believe that guns are the only thing that kill people. Edit: By the way, the curved bit at the end? Hook your fingers through that and it is almost impossible to remove from your grip, ensuring you will be dangerous the entire way to the floor.
What JaegerMonster didn't say was in that 1.5 seconds, the person would be so hyped up on adrenaline(Or drugs for that matter) that any shot that's not to the heart or head won't put him down in time for him not to get a shot on the police officer.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;27068545]My comment was in regard you to saying the SWAT officers had ample time to react and judge the situation. Furthermore, what the fuck did you bring up a spear for? That's totally irrelevant. A golf club is a weapon capable of inflicting serious physical trauma. I never said they mistook it for a gun. I'm saying it doesn't matter [B]even if they didn't mistake it for a gun[/B][/QUOTE] Swat wear helmets and padding to deflect physical trauma
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;27068561]what are you going to do anyway when you realize it's a blunt object? You'd be hardpressed to beat them in hand to hand because...they have a hard blunt object, and you could be killed by trying. Your only option is to TASER them (which, since the cop had his gun out would have taken too long to take out of its holster) or just shoot them.[/QUOTE] well then if he was charging then yes shoot him. also why dont cops have there tasers out?
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068653]Swat wear helmets and padding to deflect physical trauma[/QUOTE] Which protects from all physical trauma, allowing them to handle riots and beatings without injury, right? FunnyBunny's impression of a swat officer: [img]http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/AR006_H031_Option.JPG[/img]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068663]well then if he was charging then yes shoot him. also why dont cops have there tasers out?[/QUOTE] depends on the situation, this situation definitely warranted a gun
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;27068561]what are you going to do anyway when you realize it's a blunt object? You'd be hardpressed to beat them in hand to hand because...they have a hard blunt object, and you could be killed by trying. Your only option is to TASER them (which, since the cop had his gun out would have taken too long to take out of its holster) or just shoot them.[/QUOTE] Could have like, you know, given him a chance to drop it before shooting him 3 times. Face it, the guy didn't make any aggressive movements at the cop. He didn't lunge at him. He didn't swing. He was just standing there looking scary. Cops bust in, and without finishing their sentence of 'DROP THE WE-" shoot him.
The sides of the neck, the forearms, the face, the sides of the torso, the thighs, and the back of the neck are woefully vulnerable to knives/bludgeoning.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068667]Which protects from all physical trauma, allowing them to handle riots and beatings without injury, right? FunnyBunny's impression of a swat officer: [img_thumb]http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/AR006_H031_Option.JPG[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] No one's saying you have to withstand a beating. It's enough for at least one blow, the deciding blow that gives you complete right to shoot him. And why do you act like you're totally fucked if you get hit. He had like 10 guys behind him. If the guy would have so much as layed a hand on the first one he would be riddled with bullet holes by all his SWAT buddies.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068687]Could have like, you know, given him a chance to drop it before shooting him 3 times. Face it, the guy didn't make any aggressive movements at the cop. He didn't lunge at him. He didn't swing. He was just standing there looking scary. Cops bust in, and without finishing their sentence of 'DROP THE WE-" shoot him.[/QUOTE] Seriously, use your brain. What if he is only using a golf club because it is the first thing he grabbed? There could be a gun ANYWHERE. If he incapacitates you, he know has the chance to run for a knife or a gun. [editline]30th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068715]No one's saying you have to withstand a beating. It's enough for at least one blow, the deciding blow that gives you complete right to shoot him. And why do you act like you're totally fucked if you get hit. He had like 10 guys behind him. If the guy would have so much as layed a hand on the first one he would be riddled with bullet holes by all his SWAT buddies.[/QUOTE] Putting him in the line of fire and putting everyone at risk by causing a shootout rather than a controlled few shots to dispatch a threat. That makes sense.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068716]Seriously, use your brain. What if he is only using a golf club because it is the first thing he grabbed? There could be a gun ANYWHERE. If he incapacitates you, he know has the chance to run for a knife or a gun. [/QUOTE] nope he would get shot if he did that.
I've read all 9 pages and now my brain hurts. [editline]30th December 2010[/editline] I think I lost some brain cells.
Officers entered a home, guns drawn on what they suspected would be a dangerous arrest warrant. A man charges into the hall wielding a shiny weapon in a dimly lit room, causing the first officer in line to dispatch the threat which allowed him to safely proceed into the home and continue serving the warrant. This is all about speed. Yes, the officer could have held up the raid to argue with the guy, but consider this: The man was suspected of housing other druggies/dealers, meaning there could be multiple armed people in the house. By stopping in the living room, you have now allowed several crucial seconds to pass for the criminals to prepare for siege or flight. That is why the officer said "Keep going" to the one that wanted to check his vitals, as they needed to clear the entire house before stopping anywhere.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068740]nope he would get shot if he did that.[/QUOTE] And then you're down an officer, and you can't shoot if he's ON the officer. Good work you know got an assailant beating the shit out of your friend, you can't shoot for fear of shooting your friend, you have to drag the assailant off and possibly expose yourself to other corridors of fire from any accomplices.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068740]nope he would get shot if he did that.[/QUOTE] Putting the officer in the line of fire and putting everyone at risk by causing a shootout rather than a controlled few shots to dispatch a threat. That makes sense.
Fuck broke my auto.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068716] If he incapacitates you, he know has the chance to run for a knife or a gun. [/QUOTE] How long would that take, exactly? If we just spent a whole page talking about how many seconds it takes to do a certain action, how long would it take to smack an officer to the ground, then turn around, run a shelf, open it, grab the gun, and aim it at the officer? At LEAST 3 seconds. Now how many seconds would it take for the officer behind him to aim and shoot the dealer? About .5
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068783]How long would that take, exactly? If we just spent a whole page talking about how many seconds it takes to do a certain action, how long would it take to smack an officer to the ground, then turn around, run a shelf, open it, grab the gun, and aim it at the officer? At LEAST 3 seconds. Now how many seconds would it take for the officer behind him to aim and shoot the dealer? About .5[/QUOTE] What about the other potentially armed people in the house? Are you incapable of reading the article and realizing that the officers believed they were entering a drug DEN? The suspect was believed to be housing other dealer/addicts. You stop for 4 seconds to take the guy down, cuffing him. The raid is held back by 6-18 seconds, and now the other occupants are armed and in corners waiting to see the first sign of a badge. 3 officers die because you held back the raid because of an inability to dispatch a threat.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068653]Swat wear helmets and padding to deflect physical trauma[/QUOTE] Hi, I'll give you a kevlar helmet and a ballistic vest and you let me whack you with a golf club, ok? [editline]30th December 2010[/editline] I said it before, and I'll say it again, before you try and theorize on how SWAT should've/could've/would've handled the situation, read The Art of High Risk Entry and/or FBI documentation deaths of officers enacting search warrants or responding to callouts, in particular, deaths and injuries caused by [B]BLUNT TRAUMA[/B]
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;27068808]Hi, I'll give you a kevlar helmet and a ballistic vest and you let me whack you with a golf club, ok? [editline]30th December 2010[/editline] I said it before, and I'll say it again, before you try and theorize on how SWAT should've/could've/would've handled the situation, read The Art of High Risk Entry and/or FBI documentation deaths of officers enacting search warrants or responding to callouts, in particular, deaths and injuries caused by [B]BLUNT TRAUMA[/B][/QUOTE] Read the former, link[s] to the latter? [editline]30th December 2010[/editline] Anywho, getting stoned. I make a point of not posting in the main sections when high and there is really nothing left to argue here.
[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;27068775]And then you're down an officer, and you can't shoot if he's ON the officer. Good work you know got an assailant beating the shit out of your friend, you can't shoot for fear of shooting your friend, you have to drag the assailant off and possibly expose yourself to other corridors of fire from any accomplices.[/QUOTE] he said if he hit him and ran to get another weapon
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