[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068740]nope he would get shot if he did that.[/QUOTE]
You remind me of the kid in the war video thread who called the soldiers pussies for hiding in a ditch and said that they should have sneaked around and stabbed them to death.
Almost nothing in the world deals in absolutes [aside from death], and you should know that by now.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068829]Read the former, link[s] to the latter?
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
Anywho, getting stoned. I make a point of not posting in the main sections when high and there is really nothing left to argue here.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, Freaky. We're all here arguing valid points and the only people trying to argue otherwise are 'lolnope ur wrong'
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27068842]he said if he hit him and ran to get another weapon[/QUOTE]
Which is a possibility. You now have an officer with a shattered eyesocket, nearly completely blind, stumbling/flailing back into his squadmates or slumped on the floor, vulnerable.
Do you not think that would hold back the raid somewhat?
Yep I'm done with this thread heh.
[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;27068850]Pretty much, Freaky. We're all here arguing valid points and the only people trying to argue otherwise are 'lolnope ur wrong'[/QUOTE]
Ignorance trumps logic every time, as the ignorant are woefully immune to the seduction of reason.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27065430]well yea thats probably true. but it doesnt mean they should have shot them. he should have relied on more then reflex even if he didnt.[/QUOTE]
However, it wasn't just an itchy trigger-finger reflex, but it was the shooter's training; training he followed. In the perfect scenario, a police officer would be able to analyse the target's threat capability, and react according to that - i.e. differentiating between a club and a gun. However, realistically this time is precious, and if the target has a gun, fatal. Therefore, police can't always take the time when they have a weapon coming at them to identify the weapon. They can only neutralise the threat, and MUST assume the worst-case scenario when reasonable.
Overall, it's a sad, unfortunate incident. But none of the police erred.
I know most people on Facepunch are <21 years of age, but it would be interesting to hear the opinion of a real police officer/law enforcement agent about this situation.
Now I don't claim to know more about police search procedures than anyone else, but most people making arguments (pro or con) here are basing most of their points in pure speculation. I mean, I know it's easy to say how he should have done this or done that, but imagine how these law enforcement officers lead a stressful job and to execute a procedure like a drug search warrant? You're full of adrenaline and in that split second decision, you don't have time to make a decision, your training and muscle memory kicks in.
While it is unfortunate that this man died, the situation was definitely cut and dry.
He was a drug addict and possibly psychologically unstable so this was not just the police raiding the wrong house and shooting just anyone.
I believe that the police officer made the best decision at the time and had no malicious intent and his actions were based solely on self-preservation for himself and the rest of his squad.
ITT: FunnyBunny thinks he is experienced in drug raids but in actual fact he has no idea, and probably let the drug dealer kill him if he was in a real raid.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27067966][img_thumb]http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1559/gunsx.png[/img_thumb]
hey bro you really need to read up on how to hold firearms again[/QUOTE]
Hey son, he jumped around a corner with 2 hands close together and arms at shoulder height. At first glance that is close enough to a gun stance in a high risk situation.
Fuck the DEA they are everything wrong with law enforcement.
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
legalize all drugs
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068715]No one's saying you have to withstand a beating. It's enough for at least one blow, the deciding blow that gives you complete right to shoot him. And why do you act like you're totally fucked if you get hit. He had like 10 guys behind him. If the guy would have so much as layed a hand on the first one he would be riddled with bullet holes by all his SWAT buddies.[/QUOTE]
Enough for one blow? What are you stupid? In that situation, you don't EVER take at least one blow from ANY WEAPON.
If that was something with a spike on it, would go straight through any armor they had. All it takes is one blow to cause irreversible damage.
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=lead_farmer;27068928]I know most people on Facepunch are <21 years of age, but it would be interesting to hear the opinion of a real police officer/law enforcement agent about this situation.
Now I don't claim to know more about police search procedures than anyone else, but most people making arguments (pro or con) here are basing most of their points in pure speculation. I mean, I know it's easy to say how he should have done this or done that, but imagine how these law enforcement officers lead a stressful job and to execute a procedure like a drug search warrant? You're full of adrenaline and in that split second decision, you don't have time to make a decision, your training and muscle memory kicks in.
While it is unfortunate that this man died, the situation was definitely cut and dry.
He was a drug addict and possibly psychologically unstable so this was not just the police raiding the wrong house and shooting just anyone.
I believe that the police officer made the best decision at the time and had no malicious intent and his actions were based solely on self-preservation for himself and the rest of his squad.[/QUOTE]
I know many police officers who have experience in raids and are trained for SWAT and I also run into several detectives who were well experienced cops before hand. I showed them the video, and every single one of them said that shooting the criminal in that instance was the right decision. It wasn't a good thing to end their life, but that is what had to be done in that situation.
I don't understand why kids in this thread (hoping they are kids, if they are adults and lack common sense then the planet is doomed) keep thinking that they understand the right way to handle this.
The world isn't as nice as your security blanket. If a guy gets ready to pull a gun the cops job isn't to give him the benefit of the doubt. "Oh he might just be pulling it out to show me *BANG* oh I guess he wanted to shoot me..."
If someone is going to have a weapon, they are going to use it. And that is how police are trained. This guy jumped around a corner with a weapon. AFTER HEARING THE POLICE YELL. So they shot.
[QUOTE=SM0K3 B4N4N4;27074235]Fuck the DEA they are everything wrong with law enforcement.
[/QUOTE]
yep. as many other people have said, shit like this would never happen if they didn't have to raid people's homes for such stupid bullshit.
Hey officers, I just perfected my golf swing for the tournament!
You're gonna lov-bangbangbang
[QUOTE=Gibo990;27047088]Leg shots are also effective at disabling a potential threat, what's the need in body shots that was just horrible.[/QUOTE]
How facepunch thinks aiming a gun is like
[img]http://www.webwombat.com.au/games/images/fallout-3-5.jpg[/img]
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068667]Which protects from all physical trauma, allowing them to handle riots and beatings without injury, right?
FunnyBunny's impression of a swat officer:
[img_thumb]http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/AR006_H031_Option.JPG[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
I agree with you, but keep in mind SWAT officers gotta be light so they can cover more ground in less time and so their reflexes aren't affected by the armor.
Peruvian Riot police, on the other hand:
[img]http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/02/riotpolice350.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;27068667]Which protects from all physical trauma, allowing them to handle riots and beatings without injury, right?
FunnyBunny's impression of a swat officer:
[img_thumb]http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images/AR006_H031_Option.JPG[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
if that was his impression then he should be thinking how much of a disadvantage they are at
I think the general consensus is that officer did what he had to do in the situation, however unpleasant, but shouldn't have been there in the first place.
[QUOTE=FunnyBunny;27068783]How long would that take, exactly? If we just spent a whole page talking about how many seconds it takes to do a certain action, how long would it take to smack an officer to the ground, then turn around, run a shelf, open it, grab the gun, and aim it at the officer?
At LEAST 3 seconds. Now how many seconds would it take for the officer behind him to aim and shoot the dealer? About .5[/QUOTE]
sorry but you don't risk your squadmembers getting injured for the sake of confirming if the assaulter is dangerous.
I hear at least 10 cops yelling "SEARCH WARRANT!"
I know I'll jump out with a golf club!
If I was part of that team and saw something that looked like a rifle in the heat of the moment I'd shoot too. I watched the video then read the article.
Reminds me of the raid earlier this year where cops murdered a caged dog on a raid where the raid was equally faulty. Also you would have to be blind to not know it wasn't a gun, who the hell holds a gun like a club/sword? Just another sad case of overzealous cops getting away with murder. At the very least they could have disarmed him with a shot to his arm or shoulder, also before people say things like "Thats too hard", SWAT are trained to be excellent marksmen in heated situations.
[QUOTE=zombieslaya;27106095]Reminds me of the raid earlier this year where cops murdered a caged dog on a raid where the raid was equally faulty. Also you would have to be blind to not know it wasn't a gun, who the hell holds a gun like a club/sword?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://wackyiraqi.com/wtf/hnng.jpg[/IMG]
[quote]Just another sad case of overzealous cops getting away with murder.[/quote][IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Rage_face.png[/IMG]
[quote]At the very least they could have disarmed him with a shot to his arm or shoulder, also before people say things like "Thats too hard", SWAT are trained to be excellent marksmen in heated situations.[/quote][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E29iOPSxF94[/media]
Whoever is defending the swat team are idiots. You can clearly see the man had no idea it was the fucking swat team. As far as he was concerned someone broke into his house. The swat team were yelling over one another making it almost impossible to hear a fucking word they were saying, you and I know what they are saying because we now know it's a raid, the man had no idea. They kicked the door open before they made clear who they were. The man was in his underwear and defending his home for fucks sake.
Anyone trying to justify the swat here are far from right and should feel ashamed.
[QUOTE=itchyflakes;27108861]Whoever is defending the swat team are idiots. You can clearly see the man had no idea it was the fucking swat team. As far as he was concerned someone broke into his house. The swat team were yelling over one another making it almost impossible to hear a fucking word they were saying, you and I know what they are saying because we now know it's a raid, the man had no idea. They kicked the door open before they made clear who they were. The man was in his underwear and defending his home for fucks sake.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8287/fuckfr.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=itchyflakes;27108861]Anyone trying to justify the swat here are far from right and should feel ashamed.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5619/samuelljacksons.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=itchyflakes;27108861]Whoever is defending the swat team are idiots. You can clearly see the man had no idea it was the fucking swat team. As far as he was concerned someone broke into his house. The swat team were yelling over one another making it almost impossible to hear a fucking word they were saying, you and I know what they are saying because we now know it's a raid, the man had no idea. They kicked the door open before they made clear who they were. The man was in his underwear and defending his home for fucks sake.
Anyone trying to justify the swat here are far from right and should feel ashamed.[/QUOTE]
Once again, hindsight is 20/20. You act like the swat team was supposed to stop and do research on the man's motives and intent within the half a second that the shooting took place. These things are always very easy to look back on and see what could have been done differently. Yes, it was a fuckup in hindsight, I don't think anyone's truly arguing against that. But understandable within the heat of the moment as the officers experienced it? Certainly (in my opinion)
[QUOTE=Sharp;27109508][img_thumb]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8287/fuckfr.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5619/samuelljacksons.gif[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
You're not very sharp are you?
[QUOTE=itchyflakes;27113972]You're not very sharp are you?[/QUOTE]
You're not very smart are you?
This is why air horns, megaphones, and firecrackers should be standard issue for SWAT officers. Maybe some high-end speaker systems that constantly yell "DO NOT PICK UP A WEAPON, DUMBASS. WE WILL FUCKING DISINTEGRATE YOU WITH OUR HEAVY ASSAULT RIFLES!", too.
[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;27119737]This is why air horns, megaphones, and firecrackers should be standard issue for SWAT officers. Maybe some high-end speaker systems that constantly yell "DO NOT PICK UP A WEAPON, DUMBASS. WE WILL FUCKING DISINTEGRATE YOU WITH OUR HEAVY ASSAULT RIFLES!", too.[/QUOTE]
how bout we just shoot them and call it a day
This was no one's fault, and there should be no blame, it's just one of those horrible accidents that happen.
[QUOTE=itchyflakes;27113972]You're not very sharp are you?[/QUOTE]
You do realize that you're quite dumb right?
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