• Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly
    413 replies, posted
These are high stress situations, you have your life at risk there and while you are sitting at your home watching the video, everything seems a lot clearly than it does when standing there. You had no idea what was he holding when you entered the room except he was holding something in a aggressively position, you can't risk dangering your life and the life of your partners during a raid like this.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;27048740]It's bad because it wasn't a gun. It's the SWAT team's fault for not recognizing the object, and because of that a possibly innocent man was killed. As I said, if I kill someone I thought was holding a gun, but in fact wasn't, am I justified?[/QUOTE] Well I'm glad you think that you'd have the reflexes that you could see exactly what weapon the man was holding and that you wouldn't have your heart racing with adrenaline pumping in a very tense situation like that. Maybe you should sign up to be a police officer since you think you could never make a mistake in the heat of the moment with half a second to react.
Okay, statistically when they do these things people are going to jail for a REALLY LONG TIME. Thus the criminals don't care if they shoot the cops as soon as they come in. If the police KNOCK ON THE DOOR and yell you probably shouldn't have ANYTHING IN YOUR HANDS. Just drop everything. This isn't incompetent cop thread, this is incompetent human thread. As soon as you hear "POLICE! SEARCH WARRANT" your first thought shouldn't be "Better grab something that might look like a gun!"
Sure is benefit of hindsight in here
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27048264]The officer hesitates before he shoots, he doesnt immediately shoot. If the guy was holding a gun he was holding it like a fucking club and he should have recognised that[/QUOTE] The guy came bustling around a corner with his arms raised and a metallic item in his hand and was ready to move forward... His stance and everything indicated that... I don't understand how you idiots always blame the cops no matter what. As someone said... you all are watching the video at home, no stress, no danger... NOTHING. How many times did you watch the video? Twice? Three times? 5 or 6 times? How many times do you think those officers busted in that house and had a guy with an "item" turn a corner? Oh, just one time? Yeah, that's what I thought too.
[QUOTE=clanratc;27046048]He was charging towards them with something that might be mistaken as a knife or some other weapon. The cops are trained to shoot in that situation.[/QUOTE] How do you confuse a golf club with a knife? Seriously, the cop that shot him should be put on trial.
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049401]How do you confuse a golf club with a knife? Seriously, the cop that shot him should be put on trial.[/QUOTE] The guy had his arms in a position that could look like he was holding a firearm... All it takes is one guy with a 12gauge to blow some holes in the cops...
[QUOTE=Squad;27049296]The guy came bustling around a corner with his arms raised and a metallic item in his hand and was ready to move forward... His stance and everything indicated that... I don't understand how you idiots always blame the cops no matter what. As someone said... you all are watching the video at home, no stress, no danger... NOTHING. How many times did you watch the video? Twice? Three times? 5 or 6 times? How many times do you think those officers busted in that house and had a guy with an "item" turn a corner? Oh, just one time? Yeah, that's what I thought too.[/QUOTE] There were at least 6-8 officers in there, and with all of the body armor and helmets they were wearing there was no way he was a threat. They have tasers for a reason.
Body armour and helmets don't make you immortal. Tasing a guy who you think has a gun in his hand is a great way to make it discharge.
[QUOTE=Squad;27049432]The guy had his arms in a position that could look like he was holding a firearm... All it takes is one guy with a 12gauge to blow some holes in the cops...[/QUOTE] It didn't look like a shotgun to me, but maybe that's because I'm not a trigger-happy cop.
Or because you're watching a recording after it's happened, don't have adrenaline pumping through you, aren't fearing for your life and didn't have training saying "If he's got a weapon, shoot him."
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049463]It didn't look like a shotgun to me, but maybe that's because I'm not a trigger-happy cop.[/QUOTE] You are sitting in a fucking chair at home WATCHING IT UNFOLD ON YOUTUBE. You have no danger of having your head blown off... Also, tasering a guy with a gun? Yeah, so not only do you take him down, you STILL take an officer down. It was a drug warrant... Some of the most deadliest cop engagements are due to drug dealers or drug related people SHOOTING THEM. Why? Because who wants to go to jail for 20+ years? [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049463]It didn't look like a shotgun to me, but maybe that's because I'm not a trigger-happy cop.[/QUOTE] I'm guessing you don't know any cops? I am fortunate enough to know quite a few, including street cops, detectives, homicide etc etc... They are not trigger happy. If you discharge your weapon, it is a long process of you filling out paperwork and getting to work behind a desk for X amount of days. They don't want to do that.
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049438]There were at least 6-8 officers in there, and with all of the body armor and helmets they were wearing there was no way he was a threat. They have tasers for a reason.[/QUOTE] You realise electricity causes involuntary contraction? Tasing someone with a gun, if they are holding it, is a sure way to get shot.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;27049561]You realise electricity causes involuntary contraction? Tasing someone with a gun, if they are holding it, is a sure way to get shot.[/QUOTE] He didn't have a gun, that's the whole point.
[QUOTE=Squad;27049432]The guy had his arms in a position that could look like he was holding a firearm... All it takes is one guy with a 12gauge to blow some holes in the cops...[/QUOTE] It looks like he's ready to swing something, oh wait yeah he is its a golf club
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049576]He didn't have a gun. That's the whole point.[/QUOTE] And when you're storming someone elses house, without knowing the occupants, and some guy is clearly taking a [url=http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1559/gunsx.png]swing[/url] at you, with something not known, what do you do? I gather you believe you should take the blow, yes?
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049576]He didn't have a gun. That's the whole point.[/QUOTE] They didn't know he didn't have a gun. That's the whole point. But hey, if you want to break into a drug dealers house, and take your time examining his weapon when he jumps around the corner, be my guest.
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049576]He didn't have a gun, that's the whole point.[/QUOTE] You see that now don't you? Again, you were not the first guy in that door. And to RAG Frag... The guy was ready to attack a bunch of people yelling, "POLICE! SEARCH RAID" Or whatever it was they were yelling... Honestly, if he is dumb enough TO JUMP AROUND THE CORNER WITH ANY WEAPON, it is probably wise that the officers assume it is a weapon that can cause some damage. A.K.A A FIREARM. His arms are chest high, and his legs spread... Pretty close to shooting position.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;27049603]And when you're storming someone elses house, without knowing the occupants, and some guy is clearly taking a [url=http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1559/gunsx.png]swing[/url] at you, with something not known, what do you do? I gather you believe you should take the blow, yes?[/QUOTE] He wasn't even taking a fucking swing, he just had the club at the ready probably scared shitless
One big mistake, you really can't blame anyone. They thought it was a drug dealer and they thought he had some sort of weapon, and they shot him. If he was innocent, then it was his mistake for grabbing a weapon when he heard them shout "SEARCH WARRANT!" fifty times.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049634]He wasn't even taking a fucking swing, he just had the club at the ready probably scared shitless[/QUOTE] Well he wasn't close enough to actually take a swing but he was obviously charging at them
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049634]He wasn't even taking a fucking swing, he just had the club at the ready probably scared shitless[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I don't want to call you stupid. But you are stupid. If a bunch of cops come to your house and yell CLEARLY MULTIPLE TIMES "POLICE POLICE POLICE" and break the door open... Are you seriously going to turn the corner with a weapon? He wasn't scared shitless, he was ready to duke it out. What other reason do you have to confronting a group of cops who are identifying themselves...
If he was holding it like a gun, then maybe I can understand. But he was holding it like he was about to swing something, which would have in no way been a threat to the six-eight officers in full body armor. They didn't have to shoot him in the head either. I just think the cops should have been trained better because stuff like this unfortunately happens way too often.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27049653]Well he wasn't close enough to actually take a swing but he was obviously charging at them[/QUOTE] Again, he looked like he was in a shooting position, with a metallic object... I mean, you don't have to get close to SHOOT. So if they put some stuff together and believe it is a gun, they aren't going to say "Oh, don't worry he is 5 feet away he can't hurt us."
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049634]He wasn't even taking a fucking swing, he just had the club at the ready probably scared shitless[/QUOTE] It looks like he's taking a swing to me... or at least heading towards them... quickly...
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049668]If he was holding it like a gun, then maybe I can understand. But he was holding it like he was about to swing something, which would have in no way been a threat to the six-eight officers in full body armor. They didn't have to shoot him in the head either. I just think the cops should have been trained before because stuff like this unfortunately happens way too often.[/QUOTE] The cop probably just saw a blur holding [i]something[/i], he didn't know what it was, but he did know it was a weapon, so he shot they guy. It was the other mans mistake for charging out with a weapon when he heard "SEARCH WARRANT!"
To all those who say the cop is incompetent and a horrible: Imagine being that police-man. It's a dawn raid and within seconds of opening the door, a meth-head charges at you with a golf-club. Did you he do the right thing? No. But keep in mind the extreme amount of pressure placed on this man.
The police identified themselves, one guy was Mid way through saying Get on the ground before the guy was going to swing a golf club at him... Legally justified shooting, all be it stupid, Just more stupid for the guy with the club
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049668]If he was holding it like a gun, then maybe I can understand. But he was holding it like he was about to swing something, which would have in no way been a threat to the six-eight officers in full body armor. They didn't have to shoot him in the head either. I just think the cops should have been trained before because stuff like this unfortunately happens way too often.[/QUOTE] They thought he had a gun and reacted appropriately. How is this hard to understand? Yes, I realise watching the video with it's pause function and it's inability to kill you it's obviously held in a swinging position. From the SWAT's point of view, there's a shadowy guy leaping around the corner who could possibly shoot your dick off.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;27049675]It looks like he's taking a swing to me... or at least heading towards them... quickly...[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Squad;27049672]Again, he looked like he was in a shooting position, with a metallic object... I mean, you don't have to get close to SHOOT. So if they put some stuff together and believe it is a gun, they aren't going to say "Oh, don't worry he is 5 feet away he can't hurt us."[/QUOTE] To me it looks like hes heard his front door cave in, come round the corner then stopped and realised it was police, he clearly stops before they shoot him. And if he was holding a gun it looks like he was holding it out to the side pointing it at the door next to him
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