• Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly
    413 replies, posted
I find it ridiculous a bunch of kids are defending a guy who was dumb enough to ATTACK POLICE YELLING "POLICE SEARCH WARRANT" have you guys forgot about that? It is a drug warrant search... First off those are very dangerous like I have stated before. Drug dealers like to shoot their weapons. They yell and announce their selves... They break the door down and he comes from a back room jumping around a corner with a weapon in his hand. Now of course they are going to shoot. Let's review these points. 1. DRUG DEALER WARRANT. DANGEROUS! HIGHLY DANGEROUS. 2. Drug dealers like to shoot. 3. Police CLEARLY ANNOUNCE THEMSELVES. So anyone who DOESN'T want to fight can just lay on the ground or completely submit. 4. GUY JUMPS AROUND CORNER WITH WEAPON. Clearly he doesn't want to AVOID THE SITUATION. RAG Frag... you are telling me that if 6-8 cops were outside YELLING you wouldn't hear them? You serious? We have very expensive windows that block out almost all noise that you would hear. However, you take 8 men and tell them to yell outside my front door, I'm going to hear them.
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049668]If he was holding it like a gun, then maybe I can understand. But he was holding it like he was about to swing something, which would have in no way been a threat to the six-eight officers in full body armor.[/QUOTE] Wow, you're ignorant. Why don't you understand this? They need to identify what they're holding in a split second. If it appears to be a threat to them, as in could look like a gun, they are likely to open up on them. You even said, about to swing, that's clearly a threat! This shit about body armour pisses me off. Their body armour doesn't cover their whole body, nor is it effective at high caliber shit. [QUOTE=DamagePoint;27049668]They didn't have to shoot him in the head either.I just think the cops should have been trained before because stuff like this unfortunately happens way too often.[/QUOTE] Cops are told to shoot in the body mass, which the head or chest, never in the legs like most people claim they should. This is because it doesn't actually disable them, and that it's also harder to aim. As for it happening too often, maybe so, but in this case, you could argue that it may have been justified.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049712]To me it looks like hes heard his front door cave in, come round the corner then stopped and realised it was police, he clearly stops before they shoot him. And if he was holding a gun it looks like he was holding it out to the side pointing it at the door next to him[/QUOTE] Matter of perspective, again. And from the perspective of the people charging through the door, he was a threat.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049712]To me it looks like hes heard his front door cave in, come round the corner then stopped and realised it was police, he clearly stops before they shoot him.[/QUOTE] Watch it again. [QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049712]And if he was holding a gun it looks like he was holding it out to the side pointing it at the door next to him[/QUOTE] It's a weapon... justifiable force in a raid likely to encounter weapons such as guns.
[QUOTE=RAG Frag;27049712]To me it looks like hes heard his front door cave in, come round the corner then stopped and realised it was police, he clearly stops before they shoot him. And if he was holding a gun it looks like he was holding it out to the side pointing it at the door next to him[/QUOTE] To me it looks like he was ready to go at them swinging it, and the OP says the guy was paranoid, punching walls, yelling at people who weren't there, seems more likely to me that someone like that would charge police with a golf club, not stop and drop it.
Here's an article with more info: [quote]OGDEN -- The family of Todd Blair, the man fatally shot during a drug raid in Roy, is speaking out on his behalf. Concerned about the posthumous beating Blair is taking on media message boards online, Tauna Blair Doesberg, Blair's younger sister and designated family spokesperson, said, [B]"Todd wasn't a drug dealer, he was an addict. He died with $4 in his pocket."[/B] The West Haven businesswoman said the family at this point is not condemning police, but waiting on the completion of multiple investigations into the Sept. 16 shooting of Blair by a Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force agent. "It's still pretty raw. We just had the funeral Monday," Doesberg said. "But I'm not angry. I'm past that. This is not about revenge, but setting the record straight. This is about cleaning up Todd's name. "You don't hang him out to dry for a narcotics arrest in 2003. ... If it turns out Todd's rights were not violated, fine, but I can't help but feel we just paid to bury someone who didn't need to die." Blair, 45, was shot three times by Strike Force Sgt. Troy Burnett as agents entered his home with a no-knock search warrant, officials said. The warrant was issued on allegations Blair was selling meth and heroin from his home. Blair was brandishing a golf club when he was shot, officials said. Burnett is on paid administrative leave pending investigations by the Weber County Attorney's Office and the Ogden Police Department, Burnett's parent agency. Weber County Attorney Dee Smith said Friday he has received the results of the investigation by his office's Officer-involved Shooting Task Force, making up a roughly 5-inch-thick binder. He said his review of possible criminal charges in the case should be complete early next week. Doesberg said the strike force provided the family an inventory of the items found in Blair's home pursuant to the search warrant the night of the shooting. [B]No meth or heroin were located on the premises, according to the inventory, she said, just a half-ounce of marijuana.[/B] "They gave us the inventory sheet when they gave us the keys to the house that Todd lived in," she said. The home is owned by their parents, Seth and Arlean Blair, of South Weber. Doesberg said there was a piece of a vacuum hose attachment next to a blood stain left by her brother's body, which would explain rumors on the media message posts that Blair was holding a vacuum hose when he was shot, not a golf club. "They told us it was a golf club, and they took it into evidence," she said. [B]Blair was shot by the back stairwell of the home, she said, not near the front door as depicted in many media accounts.[/B] [B]She believes her brother was in the basement when agents were forcing their way through the front door. He didn't hear the officers announce they were police serving a warrant, Doesberg said, and went up the stairs thinking he would be facing burglars.[/B] Blair was shot from the side, the three bullets hitting him in the head, through an arm to the chest, and in the lower abdomen, she said. Doesberg said, and Smith confirmed, the family was briefed by Smith's investigators Sept. 21 after several days of the family contacting authorities for information about the shooting. Smith declined to comment on the details Doesburg released, except to rebut her claim investigators said Blair was 15 feet away from officers when he was shot. "That's absolutely not true," Smith said. "They did not say that. Wall to wall, the room was only 12 feet across. It was a much shorter distance." One friend described Blair as an amazing person. "He was just the most awesome friend. He was my best friend," said Kathy Lucero. "What happened to him was very unfortunate. We were very angry." She said a lot of things "in certain newspapers, certain news channels" about Blair are not true. "He was a good friend. He had a heart of gold. Who cares about his run-ins in the past? Everybody has a past. He didn't deserve what happened to him." When she found out he was shot by police, she said, "I cried. I just wanted to find some answers. Why were they doing a drug raid at his house? I thought maybe someone was trying to set him up. I was just really confused and angry and shocked. I couldn't believe it." [B]Court files indicate no arrests for drug dealing for Todd Blair.[/B] The 2003 arrest, his last, was a possession charge from a traffic stop in Davis County while he lived with his parents. He also was sentenced to a year in jail in 2001 on possession charges while living in Roy and was fined in 1995 for an Ogden forgery charge. "If they'd said Todd had a gun when they shot him, we would have thought, 'Todd, you dummy,' .. but this is different," Doesberg said. Her parents, she said, have lost two other sons, one to a heart attack two years ago, another to a brain aneurism 10 years ago. "I can tell you, grief is not nearly as strong as anger," she said. [B]Blair, 16 months older than she is, had a long struggle with drug addiction, she said, but remained the kind of man who would help anyone. He was a handyman who fixed cars and appliances and took in street strangers who needed a bed.[/B] "He flew a strung-out friend to Maine, paid for her airline ticket to get her out of her situation, away from drugs," Doesburg said. "We didn't know about it until she called me in tears when she heard he'd been shot. "I've got tons of stories like that about Todd. He had lots of people in his house all the time." A candlelight vigil the Sunday after he died drew 100 people, she said, and his funeral services were delayed an hour because so many people showed up to pay their respects.[/quote] [url]http://www.standard.net/topics/drugs/2010/10/01/family-defends-slain-man-sister-kind-man-mischaracterized-hung-out-dry-his-p[/url]
In my book though, someone comes at you with a golf club, I'm sorry, that is a deadly weapon, he's gotta take the consequences. [img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/farrell-420x0.jpg[/img]
Also, to those saying use tasers, SWAT does not use tasers on raids I believe. I don't even think they're issued to SWAT.
the real culprit here is the war on drugs if we didn't have such a shitty "war on drugs" enacted by republicans then this probably would have never occurred
[QUOTE=JDK721;27049826]the real culprit here is the war on drugs if we didn't have such a shitty "war on drugs" enacted by republicans then this probably would have never occurred[/QUOTE] Pretty sure thats already been established buckaroo, everyone is trying to find out whether the cop was right in shooting the guy.
[QUOTE=JDK721;27049826]the real culprit here is the war on drugs if we didn't have such a shitty "war on drugs" enacted by republicans then this probably would have never occurred[/QUOTE] Even so, this could've happened in other situations.
Irrelevant that they didn't find anything. They went there on a drug raid, if they would have magically known there were no drugs there, they wouldn't have set up for a raid. They believed there were, so they went to check. [quote]Blair was shot by the back stairwell of the home, she said, not near the front door as depicted in many media accounts. She believes her brother was in the basement when agents were forcing their way through the front door. He didn't hear the officers announce they were police serving a warrant, Doesberg said, and went up the stairs thinking he would be facing burglars.[/quote] The first 2 words of that second paragraph, "She believes", are the key words in realizing that she doesn't know. If I was trying to come up with a defense to explain this so I could win the case, I would of course say he was in the basement so he couldn't hear. How the hell could he run up the stairs so damn fast then? As soon as they hit the door the guy was already in the hallway? They have 2 steps to get to the basement? War on drugs isn't a bad idea... It wasn't a POT BUST. I know how you guys all love your weed... Didn't they think he was dealing Meth? Honestly, I would rather there be less Meth on the streets than more...
[QUOTE=Squad;27049846]Irrelevant that they didn't find anything. They went their on a drug raid, if they would have magically known there were no drugs there, they wouldn't have set up for a raid. They believed there were, so they went to check. If I was trying to come up with a defense to explain this so I could win the case, I would of course say he was in the basement so he couldn't hear. How the hell could he run up the stairs so damn fast then? As soon as they hit the door the guy was already in the hallway? They have 2 steps to get to the basement?[/QUOTE] This, if he got up the stairs and out of the stairwell that fast, he had to be at the top to hear them announce the warrant. Even if he was in the farthest part of the basement, he would of had more than enough time going up the stairs to hear warrant at least once.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;27049844]Pretty sure thats already been established buckaroo, everyone is trying to find out whether the cop was right in shooting the guy.[/QUOTE] shooting someone is never right
[QUOTE=Squad;27049846]The first 2 words of that second paragraph, "She believes", are the key words in realizing that she doesn't know. I would of course say he was in the basement so he couldn't hear. How the hell could he run up the stairs so damn fast then? As soon as they hit the door the guy was already in the hallway? They have 2 steps to get to the basement? War on drugs isn't a bad idea... It wasn't a POT BUST. I know how you guys all love your weed... Didn't they think he was dealing Meth? Honestly, I would rather there be less Meth on the streets than more...[/QUOTE] I think she knows they layout of the house better than us, so it's something to take into account unlikely as it sounds. Plus it's not the fact that everyone is protecting pot, its because fuckups like this keep happening. [QUOTE=Squad;27049846] Didn't they think he was dealing Meth? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Squad;27049846]The first 2 words of that second paragraph, "She believes", are the key words in realizing that she doesn't know. [/QUOTE] Double standards much?
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;27045886]I'm sorry, but things like this happen. No one is really at fault. I don't think any of us are in position to judge the cop. He was in a high pressure situation, a man holding a weapon in a threatening manner appears, and he shoots him. It's just how the cookie crumbles, accidents happen, etcetera.[/QUOTE] Yeah a regular person in a high stress situation might have done that. But this guy is a SWAT member, all cops are trained to only fire when necessary. he shot the man four fucking times. no warning to drop the weapon. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] Its hard to look at that video and feel empathetic for the police. That guy in the drug raid got fucked, and right after he got shot someone yells "GET ON THE GROUND." There was a serious priority problem in that drug raid. Accidents do happen though, but still.
[QUOTE=JDK721;27049878]shooting someone is never right[/QUOTE] Not moral "right", but right in his training, the situation, etc. Stop trying to turn this into something else.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;27049949]Yeah a regular person in a high stress situation might have done that. But this guy is a SWAT member, all cops are trained to only fire when necessary. he shot the man four fucking times. no warning to drop the weapon.[/QUOTE] We've already been through this like 5 times man. And the number of shots is irrelevant. If you're a big enough threat to open fire on, you're a big enough threat that you're going to have to die. Pump a clip in and double tap the head is the standard procedure IIRC.
[QUOTE=Squad;27049846]War on drugs isn't a bad idea...[/QUOTE] you have no clue [QUOTE=Squad;27049846]Didn't they think he was dealing Meth? Honestly, I would rather there be less Meth on the streets than more...[/QUOTE] yeah keyword: thought they didn't find anything, so once again their "intel" was fucked. how many times are the police gonna use that defense? "oh, we THOUGHT he was dealing meth, etc. our intel was bad."
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;27049949]Yeah a regular person in a high stress situation might have done that. But this guy is a SWAT member, all cops are trained to only fire when necessary. he shot the man four fucking times. no warning to drop the weapon. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] Its hard to look at that video and feel empathetic for the police. That guy in the drug raid got fucked, and right after he got shot someone yells "GET ON THE GROUND." There was a serious priority problem in that drug raid. Accidents do happen though, but still.[/QUOTE] Uh. SWAT is trained to make quick decisions that you probably won't agree with. When a hostage comes running at a SWAT member they are trained to push them out of their way. You see a man with a shiny object in his hand. You are doing this over a drugs, where a lot of drug dealers fight back. You don't have time to go, "pull out my non lethal weapons and go knock him out" you shoot his ass before he can hit you and or shoot you.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;27049975]Not moral "right", but right in his training, the situation, etc. Stop trying to turn this into something else.[/QUOTE] don't try to say that shooting and killing someone is right then
[QUOTE=JDK721;27050031]don't try to say that shooting and killing someone is right then[/QUOTE] There is no right here, it's a tragedy that someone died, but it's justifiable given the situation.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;27050030]Uh. SWAT is trained to make quick decisions that you probably won't agree with. When a hostage comes running at a SWAT member they are trained to push them out of their way. You see a man with a shiny object in his hand. You are doing this over a drugs, where a lot of drug dealers fight back. You don't have time to go, "pull out my non lethal weapons and go knock him out" you shoot his ass before he can hit you and or shoot you.[/QUOTE] except he wasn't even a drug dealer and even if he was then this is a ridiculous way to deal with the situation so once again it goes back to being the war on drugs and police's fault
[QUOTE=Rock Ironrod;27050012]We've already been through this like 5 times man. And the number of shots is irrelevant. If you're a big enough threat to open fire on, you're a big enough threat that you're going to have to die. Pump a clip in and double tap the head is the standard procedure IIRC.[/QUOTE] Actually its more than just double tap. Its keep shooting until the target is down on the ground. At least in Maryland it is. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=JDK721;27050061]except he wasn't even a drug dealer and even if he was then this is a ridiculous way to deal with the situation so once again it goes back to being the war on drugs and police's fault[/QUOTE] They were raiding under the pretense of DRUGS.
[QUOTE=JDK721;27050061]being the war on drugs fault[/QUOTE] Yes. [QUOTE=JDK721;27050061]police's fault[/QUOTE] No.
If they aren't sure the guy is holding a gun or not, at least fucking just try and immobilize him first by shooting his leg or something.. He's gonna go down. If these cops aren't fast enough to do that, then they don't deserve to wear the badge.
It isn't a fuck up... That is what they are trained to do. There was not a priority issue. What part of DRUG RAID do you not understand? Drug raids have a very high tendency to end in police officers being shot because they people they try to arrest don't want to be arrested and don't give a shit. You tell a guy who is going to be going to jail for the rest of his life over drugs, to get on the ground while he has a weapon. HE HAS NOTHING TO LOSE. Police: "GET ON THE GROUND!" Criminal: "Oh, that's it? Okay let me put this gun down guys sorry for the inconvenience." Also, no I will not believe the story of him in the basement. Sure they know the layout of the house, but they don't know where the guy is... I know my house like the back of my hand, however when I am not there I can't tell you where people are in the house. [editline]29th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=iJeax;27050090]If they aren't sure the guy is holding a gun or not, at least fucking just try and immobilize him first by shooting his leg or something.. He's gonna go down. If these cops aren't fast enough to do that, then they don't deserve to wear the badge.[/QUOTE] There are people who don't go down that easily... There are people when shot in the leg, they can still shoot their gun fine...
Honestly from his initial stance he made and the lighting, I think the golf club could have easily been seen as possibly a sword. Also. I find it hilarious that here we go with the "Durr hurr why didn't they use the taser?!" shit again. And the classic. "They should have shot him in the leg." People who say this have absolutely no knowledge of procedure in dealing with a deadly force scenario, it's been explained a million times why you do not shoot in the legs, yet anytime a police shooting crops up, one or two people still spit out that question.
[QUOTE=Squad;27050091]It isn't a fuck up... That is what they are trained to do. [/QUOTE] How can you say its anything more than a fuck up when they found nothing they were looking for and shot an innocent man. Whether its to do with planning or execution something was still pretty fucked here. And the issue isn't the cops knowing where he was, it's you saying that the sisters words were bullshit.
I'm going to agree with the people saying it's the war on drugs to blame. The SWAT officer did the right thing at wrong place and time.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.