[QUOTE=InsanePyro;27058123]But he..he...HE HAS A GOLF CLUB[/QUOTE]
in b4 "you don't know what it's like to put your life on the line to save america from DRUG-PUSHING DEMON WORSHIPPERS"
[QUOTE=Doriol;27058142]in b4 "you don't know what it's like to put your life on the line to save america from DRUG-PUSHING DEMON WORSHIPPERS"[/QUOTE]
well he doesn't
Didn't look like he was charging to me.
[QUOTE=Carne;27058283]Didn't look like he was charging to me.[/QUOTE]
because he wasn't
[QUOTE=Magistrate;27050538][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-ycSkoYfc[/media][/QUOTE]
this is how typical facepunch users think cops should react...as slow as possible to let the criminals get as much of an upper hand as they can. And then when they are finally "justified" to shoot, it's already too late.
[QUOTE=lawl;27060224]this is how typical facepunch users think cops should react...as slow as possible to let the criminals get as much of an upper hand as they can. And then when they are finally "justified" to shoot, it's already too late.[/QUOTE]
uh no
the veteran dude was obviously batshit crazy and the cop should have closed in on him when he was dancing around and shit rather than standing back and yelling at him
[QUOTE=Doriol;27060308]uh no
the veteran dude was obviously batshit crazy and the cop should have closed in on him when he was dancing around and shit rather than standing back and yelling at him[/QUOTE]
If he would have, you guys would jump on the cop for using excessive force on such an old man. You guys are never fucking happy, you just complain because its a cop no matter the situation.
"Police save kitten from tree"
Facepunch: "Great, waste of tax payer money"
[QUOTE=Doriol;27060308]uh no
the veteran dude was obviously batshit crazy and the cop should have closed in on him when he was dancing around and shit rather than standing back and yelling at him[/QUOTE]
should've shot the veteran the second he knew he was getting a gun.
[QUOTE=Squad;27060366]If he would have, you guys would jump on the cop for using excessive force on such an old man. [/QUOTE]
what
"close in" does not mean "shoot in the head"
I don't get why they round the guy's house at the crack of dawn? Surely raiding a house in the dark is far more dangerous than during the daytime. If people in the house are armed criminals, then you've just woken them up in dark house where they know the layout far better than you do, and you have low visibilty.
And since there was no definite intel, surely uniform should have attemped a search warrent during the day, backed up by a SWAT unit.
[QUOTE=Doriol;27060442]what
"close in" does not mean "shoot in the head"[/QUOTE]
The cop would have used a standard take down procedure while handcuffing him. Excessive force doesn't mean "shoot in the head".
How did you quote me on the "shoot in the head" when I never said it?
Looks like he was holding a sword at first glance... Just as much as a credible threat as a gun.
[QUOTE=Vobra;27060880]Looks like he was holding a sword at first glance... Just as much as a credible threat as a gun.[/QUOTE]
you're not a cop with a gun. cops with guns are not supposed to shoot people based on split-second impressions
Looks nothing like a golf club, looks like a sword to me. It was a justified shooting, give him the chance to run at you and you'll be lucky to put him down before he takes a swing.
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Doriol;27060908]you're not a cop with a gun. cops with guns are not supposed to shoot people based on split-second impressions[/QUOTE]
Go in door, assess threats - Man with sword, threat to you or another? Yes - shoot. Not exactly hard to understand.
[QUOTE=Doriol;27060908]you're not a cop with a gun. cops with guns are not supposed to shoot people based on split-second impressions[/QUOTE]
In that case they are actually... When you are entering an unknown place like that, they train you that around any corner could be instant death. You don't want to walk through a doorway, spend 5 minutes looking at someone.
When you enter a place like that, the bad guys are already waiting for you, they are ready. As soon as you turn the corner they are going to shoot. Thus, you have to react very quickly to avoid getting killed yourself.
[QUOTE=Squad;27061043]In that case they are actually... When you are entering an unknown place like that, they train you that around any corner could be instant death. You don't want to walk through a doorway, spend 5 minutes looking at someone.
[/QUOTE]
gg being hyperbolic
you do not need 5 minutes to tell the difference between a golf club and a sword
[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;27060962]
Go in door, assess threats - Man with sword, threat to you or another? Yes - shoot. Not exactly hard to understand.[/QUOTE]
Apparently common sense is just beyond some people..also apparently they think that their call of duty war training that they received within their mom's basement has given them superior knowledge, reactions, and judgment over SWAT officers. Well last time I checked these officers don't answer to 13 year old anarchists on internet forums who think video games are real life. They actually have real life situations to solve and don't have the convenience of a "quick save" and "quick load" function that some of you seem to think.
An unfortunate but justified shooting, really.
Hi idiots who think armed officers are in no danger from a man charging at them with a golf club in close confines:
Please read the art of high risk entry, and/or look at FBI documentation of patrol officers (and SWAT officers, yes, they aren't invincible) who have been killed with blunt objects while enacting searches or callouts.
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
The shooting is justified more or less, I don't blame the officers for their actions even though I personally believe it could've been handled better.
Blame the war on drugs.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;27061714]Hi idiots who think armed officers are in no danger from a man charging at them with a golf club in close confines:
Please read the art of high risk entry, and/or look at FBI documentation of patrol officers (and SWAT officers, yes, they aren't invincible) who have been killed with blunt objects while enacting searches or callouts.
[editline]30th December 2010[/editline]
The shooting is justified more or less, I don't blame the officers for their actions even though I personally believe it could've been handled better.
Blame the war on drugs.[/QUOTE]
Nice try, they will still argue that the cop is an idiot.
[QUOTE=Doriol;27061143]gg being hyperbolic
you do not need 5 minutes to tell the difference between a golf club and a sword[/QUOTE]
You are a fucking idiot. Just thought I'd leave that here. Have a good day.
[QUOTE=JDK721;27050303]so the lower ranking nazis were justified in what they were doing because they were told and trained to do it?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument[/url]
Only people without a proper argument uses a strawman argument.
The officer was clearly justified here, and the arguments for everyone who says otherwise have all been refuted and are being repeated all over again.
The guy was holding something that in 0.2 seconds when you're stressed and full of adrenaline, might ACTUALLY look like a firearm. The SWAT-members aren't superhuman.
The fault here clearly lies somewhere else.
ITT people complain even when they have nothing to compare to, and then keep paying their taxes. Silly statists...
You know he fired before I even realized it was actually a golf club. I understand WHY they would shoot, but I still think it wasn't very justified. If that makes sense.. it seemed too panicky for heavily trained personnel.
I think the problem is.. is that it's a fuck up. a reasonable, legit, fuck up. So when you try to point that finger you can point it in both directions and that's why this thread is an argument. No side will be happy.
[QUOTE=JeffAndersen;27062645]You know he fired before I even realized it was actually a golf club. I understand WHY they would shoot, but I still think it wasn't very justified. If that makes sense.. it seemed too panicky for heavily trained personnel.
I think the problem is.. is that it's a fuck up. a reasonable, legit, fuck up. So when you try to point that finger you can point it in both directions and that's why this thread is an argument. No side will be happy.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, for the cops... its a fuck up in hindsight. Looking back, yeah its a fuck up. At the moment of it happening, not a fuck up.
The guy who got shot on the other hand? He fucked up before, during and after.
Either drugs hurt more then bullets or this war on drugs is stupid.
Open the door, get on the floor.
Everybody walk the dinosaur.
Okay, the "war on drugs" isn't stupid. They are breaking up large operations dealing cocaine and meth and other substances. Yeah, sure if you want to say shouldn't happen with marijuana whatever. I am only debating the more serious drugs.
[QUOTE=Squad;27063514]The thing is, for the cops... its a fuck up in hindsight. Looking back, yeah its a fuck up. At the moment of it happening, not a fuck up.
The guy who got shot on the other hand? He fucked up before, during and after.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. They saw him pretty fast. Think about the mans adrenaline rush. Someone just kicked his door in screaming. He came into view ready to swing.. which is also just as reasonable as the cop pulling the trigger. He didn't advance (although it's hard because of how fast this happened) but he didn't. He was in a defensive stance and he was dropped without really crossing the threshold of the door.
I think he expected the people entering his house to rush in (considering the door didn't stop him) so he was trying to be ready in the event they came after them, sadly I doubt he knew it was SWAT, and I doubt they knew it was a golf club until the SWAT member had already pulled the trigger, which was also a mistake because it almost seemed like he was shooting at him cause he came into view so fast.
I hold nothing against either of them, I think it was just a lose/lose situation.
Again, I find it hard he didn't realize it was the police after they had 8 guys hollering and yelling the word Police.
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