[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425177]That's baloney in the 15 years I've played online games no pubs have matched the rounds I've played in mobas
I'm not talking about just dota 2, like I said I only played one match[/QUOTE]
I don't even like any other MOBAs, I gave LoL a try, hell I even hated Dota 1 back when I played WC3 but you know I actually gave Dota 2 a real try and it's easier to get into than Dota 1 and requires more skill than LoL but I'm okay with that. I play with 4 other friends or I won't play because pubs are never good. It's like playing pubs in L4D2 or something except worse because someone can't purposefully make you lose in L4D2. It's a coop game that requires intense communication and if you can't communicate, you can't play correctly which is why you should never play with pubs because you are not guaranteed to be able to communicate.
You have to play MOBAs a certain way, just like any other genre. That doesn't make it any less of a game.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425177]like I said I only played one match[/QUOTE]
Then why are you in this thread talking about how bad the game is? You've played one match of a game you're trying to hate, so you're shitposting in threads about it. Do you have anything else to do?
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41424658]
yeah you're right
they are nerds
they are hyper-competitive neckbeards who think video games are serious business and that esports aren't a massive joke[/QUOTE]
People need to shut the fuck up with this "neckbeard" stereotype. It's just some card guys like you pull whenever someone is really interested in something you dislike.
Why [I]can't[/I] videogames be taken seriously? That's a lot of the appeal of Dota.
I know people who watch football and play fantasy football (which, let's face it, is basically a computer game) just as seriously as other people play Dota and nobody gives a shit because football, even if your participation is just as sedentary as when you're playing Dota, doesn't have assholes like you following its fans around calling them neckbeards for enjoying something.
You can't just blanket-statement call a game shit because you personally don't enjoy it. That's arrogant and blatantly incorrect. You're like the guys who go up to anyone who's ever watched anime and call them weaboos.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;41425297]Then why are you in this thread talking about how bad the game is? You've played one match of a game you're trying to hate, so you're shitposting in threads about it. Do you have anything else to do?[/QUOTE]
I said mobas are bad and have talked about mobas in general
this isn't the Dota 2 thread in GDD we're allowed to have negative opinions
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;41425393]So I tried this game, and on my first game my entire team was just camping their enemies spawn and killing them over and over again.
Is that a normal thing?
Also it was super complex and sometimes needlessly complex.[/QUOTE]
Are you doing the tutorial?
And generally spawncamping is just people being dicks and getting a big e-pen, if you got far enough to spawn camp you've pretty much won anyway.
[QUOTE=NoShogun;41425315]People need to shut the fuck up with this "neckbeard" stereotype. It's just some card guys like you pull whenever someone is really interested in something you like.
Why [i]can't[/i] videogames be taken seriously? That's a lot of the appeal of Dota.
I know people who watch football and play fantasy football (which, let's face it, is basically a computer game) just as seriously as other people play Dota and nobody gives a shit because football, even if your participation is just as sedentary as when you're playing Dota, doesn't have assholes like you following its fans around calling them neckbeards for enjoying something.
You can't just blanket-statement call a game shit because you personally don't enjoy it. That's arrogant and blatantly incorrect. You're like the guys who go up to anyone who's ever watched anime and call them weaboos.[/QUOTE]
People take fantasy football as seriously as any gambling because they stake their own money on it,
it's only gamers who think they are special snowflakes who have the gall to call consuming media better than others a sport. And still we're not talking about the few teams who make it every year, we're talking about the "hundreds of thousands" of people who have nothing better to do than sit in a pub and ruin everyone else's fun.
You're gonna keep arguing that pubs are bad everywhere but they absolutely are not. Most games you run into a stinker every once in a blue moon, not EVERY ROUND.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41425416]You can have a negative opinion, but I won't respect your opinion until you've justified it enough and said more than "communities bad, games bad"[/QUOTE]
The community of an online game is the most valuable thing it could possibly have.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425372]I said mobas are bad and have talked about mobas in general
this isn't the Dota 2 thread in GDD we're allowed to have negative opinions[/QUOTE]
You can have a negative opinion, but I won't respect your opinion until you've justified it enough and said more than "communities bad, games bad"
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425407]The community of an online game is the most valuable thing it could possibly have.[/QUOTE]
I agree, and while every MOBA's community appears bad it's simply because the games themselves require quite a bit of thought and practice to play correctly and in the meantime while people are learning, they're going to be complete shit.
It's the nature of the genre. It's like fighting games. Someone who knows all the combos is going to absolutely wreck someone who is just button mashing. That doesn't mean the genre or the game is bad, it just means you need practice to play it.
Same with RTS games. If someone has a clear and concise build order and knowledge of what they're going up against and the ability to counter it, they're going to be better than someone who just makes a mass of one unit and sends it at the enemy.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;41425445]Yes, I just think League of Legends probably ruined my appetite for it.
I thought "Oh this'll be easy, I already have basic concepts grasped"
Boy oh boy was I wrong.[/QUOTE]
Really, stuff does carry over. There are different things like how the shop works, and the courier but those are addressed with the tutorial. Every hero is free, there is no overarching rune or unlock system, so immediatly there is more freedom than in LoL which can be a bit overwhelming. I recommend completing the tutorial entirely as it's pretty good and you will be proficient enough to survive in low player level games. If you have friends that play Dota 2, I have no doubt they wouldn't mind giving you some tips if you asked. It also helps if you play with friends.
I have a lot of friends who play LoL, and they start playing Dota 2. I help them as much as I can but honestly I think LoL kind of gave them a huge comfort zone that they don't want to leave because of free teleports, surrender button, ect.
You could even go into the FP Dota 2 section and ask for some advice. People are really dedicated to trying to improve the community and the FP community doesn't mind helping.
tbh alot of the negative things people say about MOBAs are fairly over exaggerated. You will get complete and utter shitlord teammates who flame and are counter productive but they are fairly few and far between.
I used to be terrified about getting into games like Dota 2/LoL/HoN because of what people say about the communities and the learning curve. Once you bite the bullet and get into MOBAs you'll find that alot of the shit people say about the genre are completely false.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425407]People take fantasy football as seriously as any gambling because they stake their own money on it,
it's only gamers who think they are special snowflakes who have the gall to call consuming media better than others a sport. And still we're not talking about the few teams who make it every year, we're talking about the "hundreds of thousands" of people who have nothing better to do than sit in a pub and ruin everyone else's fun.
You're gonna keep arguing that pubs are bad everywhere but they absolutely are not. Most games you run into a stinker every once in a blue moon, not EVERY ROUND.
The community of an online game is the most valuable thing it could possibly have.[/QUOTE]
You've played ONE GAME. how do you know you get bad people every round?
And people get into fantasy football because they enjoy it. Just like Dota.
Your entire argument is just "this game is shit because the one time I played it I didn't like it so everyone who does enjoy it is a neckbeard nerd"
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41424794]Yeah esports is a big joke that's why there is currently a 2.5million dollar prizepool for the Dota 2 International. You should take a look at the competitors too because none are neckbeards, they're probably better looking than you (chaun) and 5 of them are going to win 2.5 million dollars.
Gee I bet you wish you were good at videogames.[/QUOTE]
I think eSports are pretty prestigious and should be taken seriously, but realistically eSports players have a lot of issues. They aren't very well-rounded, there's often huge personal issues within the players' lives, and many eSports houses are imbued with a lot of drama. Not to say that traditional sports players are level-headed folks either - many professional players have miserable personal lives - but eSports is often glorified right away while there's another side to the "professional gamer" narrative.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;41421196] unacceptable learning curve?
dude theres a system wherein you click a few times on the guide button, you get all of your shit lined up for you, and all you have to do is deny/last hit and right click some shop items every now and then[/QUOTE]
I think Polo is blowing things a bit out of proportion, but the tutorial barely goes over everything you need to know. It's so bare bones that you still need to spend a lot of time playing bot games (and feeding) before you can ever hope to get out of the kiddie pool and enter adult swim.
Realistically there should be an optional tutorial for every single hero that goes over step by step how each different skill works, what items you should buy, and how you should upgrade your skills. A full 40 minute match tutorial per hero would iron out a lot of the issues with the tutorial section - the problem is that that would take a lot of time and effort. So instead, the guide system technically does this right now, but it's just a mere afterthought and isn't necessarily useful to players who still have their feet wet.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;41425445]Yes, I just think League of Legends probably ruined my appetite for it.
I thought "Oh this'll be easy, I already have basic concepts grasped"
Boy oh boy was I wrong.[/QUOTE]
If you're new to dota feel free to add me on steam. I have some IRL friends that like playing and they're new, too, so you'll fit right in.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41425456]I agree, and while every MOBA's community appears bad it's simply because the games themselves require quite a bit of thought and practice to play correctly and in the meantime while people are learning, they're going to be complete shit.
It's the nature of the genre. It's like fighting games. Someone who knows all the combos is going to absolutely wreck someone who is just button mashing. That doesn't mean the genre or the game is bad, it just means you need practice to play it.
Same with RTS games. If someone has a clear and concise build order and knowledge of what they're going up against and the ability to counter it, they're going to be better than someone who just makes a mass of one unit and sends it at the enemy.[/quote]
This still doesn't excuse bad teammates who can't control their frustration in-game though. And, although there are many good and positive people within the DOTA community, the stereotype is true when it comes to raging, obsessed players who can't stomach mistakes.
Likewise, real-life sports requires just as much communication and thought, but doesn't necessarily involve the hot temper that MOBAs bring in. The anonymity brought in by playing with someone you a.) don't know, or b.) is physically detached allows players to act more hostile than they would in real life.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41425576]
I think Polo is blowing things a bit out of proportion, but the tutorial barely goes over everything you need to know. It's so bare bones that you still need to spend a lot of time playing bot games (and feeding) before you can ever hope to get out of the kiddie pool and enter adult swim.
Realistically there should be an optional tutorial for every single hero that goes over step by step how each different skill works, what items you should buy, and how you should upgrade your skills. A full 40 minute match tutorial per hero would iron out a lot of the issues with the tutorial section - the problem is that that would take a lot of time and effort. So instead, the guide system technically does this right now, but it's just a mere afterthought and isn't necessarily useful to players who still have their feet wet.[/QUOTE]
I honestly thought Valve would have something similar to that before they "released" the game. There is never enough preparation for Dota but I think that's what the bot games and limited pool games are for. They don't matter and everyone should be on equal footing.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Reimu;41425612]This still doesn't excuse bad teammates who can't control their frustration in-game though. And, although there are many good and positive people within the DOTA community, the stereotype is true when it comes to raging, obsessed players who can't stomach mistakes.
Likewise, real-life sports requires just as much communication and thought, but doesn't necessarily involve the hot temper that MOBAs bring in. The anonymity brought in by playing with someone you a.) don't know, or b.) is physically detached allows players to act more hostile than they would in real life.[/QUOTE]
There's just as much aggression in sports except people can actually go to blows over it like in Hockey or Football. I'm not excusing bad teammates but hes just blowing it out of proportion.
Hell, even sports fans will riot if their team loses. I don't see Detroit or Toronto in flames over a lost esports game.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41425612]This still doesn't excuse bad teammates who can't control their frustration in-game though. And, although there are many good and positive people within the DOTA community, the stereotype is true when it comes to raging, obsessed players who can't stomach mistakes.[/QUOTE]
I've never experienced anything from the Dota community that isn't present in every other gaming community. Every game has ragers, complainers, and assholes; it's an unfortunate trait that any form of competition tends to breed. That's never going to change and you have to cope with it. Luckily Dota has measures to deal with these types of people. Report them and mute them. If you eventually make it into the upper tiers of MM(its not hard to do this) these types of people are extremely rare.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425372]I said mobas are bad and have talked about mobas in general
this isn't the Dota 2 thread in GDD we're allowed to have negative opinions[/QUOTE]
How can you have negative opinion of Dota2 when it has an extremely cool and angry red-skinned Troll Warlord?
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
I mean that's the same as having negative opinion on Half-Life. It's simply not possible. You are wrong.
[QUOTE=NoShogun;41425572]You've played ONE GAME. how do you know you get bad people every round?
And people get into fantasy football because they enjoy it. Just like Dota.
Your entire argument is just "this game is shit because the one time I played it I didn't like it so everyone who does enjoy it is a neckbeard nerd"[/QUOTE]
People get into fantasy football because it is enjoyable and it adds a lot to the regular season but they aren't total dicks about it, they only start to take it seriously if they are putting real money on it but they never call it a sport and they don't have people watch them. I'm still just talking about mobas but you're right I have only 3.3 hrs for Dota 2 on record and it's not enough to make a judgement on the quality of the gameplay. It is however, enough to deduce that the community in general is very much the same as it is for other mobas.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;41425750]How can you have negative opinion of Dota2 when it has an extremely cool and angry red-skinned Troll Warlord?
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
I mean that's the same as having negative opinion on Half-Life. It's simply not possible. You are wrong.[/QUOTE]
Why do you guys keep saying Dota 2 I keep trying to convey that I'm talking about the entire genre
and I don't have a negative opinion on Half-Life
in fact I have a very positive opinion on Half-Life
so positive in fact that I'd like for them to work on that instead of this
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41425627]I honestly thought Valve would have something similar to that before they "released" the game. There is never enough preparation for Dota but I think that's what the bot games and limited pool games are for. They don't matter and everyone should be on equal footing.[/quote]
I think Valve will fine-tune it over time, but there will always be inequality in DOTA 2. I almost think you could set up some sort of algorithm based on wins and KDA ratio and find out, with pretty close accuracy, which team would win against another team.
[quote]There's just as much aggression in sports except people can actually go to blows over it like in Hockey or Football. I'm not excusing bad teammates but hes just blowing it out of proportion.
Hell, even sports fans will riot if their team loses. I don't see Detroit or Toronto in flames over a lost esports game.[/QUOTE]
It depends significantly on the sport. Football riots are a lot more common in Europe, whereas American football fans rarely ever riot, and baseball fans are more likely to pout or get drunk after a loss or win, respectively.
If you were to compare a pick-up game of baseball and a pick-up game of DOTA, though, there would be a lot more frustration in DOTA than on the baseball field. Pick-up players seem to respect the game in and of itself, regardless of losing or winning. They take pride in their own team effort. DOTA seems a lot more win-loss oriented, especially because there's an algorithm in place calculating your statistics based on everything from last hits to KDA.
And again, part of it is simply the anonymity of DOTA. You don't need as much self-control online if there's no threat of physical alteraction.
[QUOTE=Nestophales;41425671]I've never experienced anything from the Dota community that isn't present in every other gaming community. Every game has ragers, complainers, and assholes; it's an unfortunate trait that any form of competition tends to breed. That's never going to change and you have to cope with it. Luckily Dota has measures to deal with these types of people. Report them and mute them. If you eventually make it into the upper tiers of MM(its not hard to do this) these types of people are extremely rare.[/QUOTE]
I think we can all agree though that DOTA has a much stronger saturation of ragers and assholes than, say, Team Fortress 2 or Red Orchestra 2. Everyone is under the microscope in a 5v5 game. You're much more likely to be under the scope of that aggression. Compare that with acting as a linebacker in football, or a rifleman in RO2 - where your role is extremely fine-tuned, and you won't be called out and shit on unless you're making serious mistakes.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41425806]Why do you guys keep saying Dota 2 I keep trying to convey that I'm talking about the entire genre
and I don't have a negative opinion on Half-Life
in fact I have a very positive opinion on Half-Life
so positive in fact that I'd like for them to work on that instead of this[/QUOTE]
So the entire genre sucks? Maybe, because of the other moba games. But Dota2 is truly a gem among these. (That's even hypocritical for me to say because I haven't played the other mobas at all really, just seen/heard/tried at best.)
Also I would understand if you had a negative opinion towards mobas if you've actually played A lot of them. For example, I could come up with a partially negative opinion about Dota2 based on the whopping 1500 matches that I have played it.
basically he's bitching about dota even though he's only played 3.3 hours (and one game) meaning that he literally knows nothing, instead falling on the toxic community stereotypes and thinking those are true because he played a shitty alternative game
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;41427760]Also I would understand if you had a negative opinion towards mobas if you've actually played A lot of them.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I kind of have
Not 3000 rounds, I haven't spent 1500 hours on one single game, but yeah I played them and then only regretted it afterwards
title reminds me of that line from the portal song
"and we're out of beta and releasing on time!"
but no science has gotten done and we didn't get a neat gun, but we did get a badass game to compete with LoL
-snip wrong thread-
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;41429899]Yeah I kind of have
Not 3000 rounds, I haven't spent 1500 hours on one single game, but yeah I played them and then only regretted it afterwards[/QUOTE]
Well that's weird.. Dota2 is a really nifty and complex game that keeps you playing. It certainly has a lot of replay value in it. And it looks gorgeous.
But anyway, it's video games we are talking about. So all opinions and preferences aside, Dota2 is a very decent video game. You cannot really argue against this statement.
I haven't bothered to touch Dota2 because all my friends sound so angry when playing it.
And I usually play games to vent off, not to get pent up.
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