Australian Police - 10% of Firearms Seized are Homemade - Polidicks

[t]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P5h8lGe-Xuw/UO3zzrIDGlI/AAAAAAAAakY/rEzwzlMN8Fw/s1600/GUN++HOMEMADE+%23+1.jpg[/t] aaaaaaaaahhhh what the fuck is that

[QUOTE=Ericson666;45184506][t]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P5h8lGe-Xuw/UO3zzrIDGlI/AAAAAAAAakY/rEzwzlMN8Fw/s1600/GUN++HOMEMADE+%23+1.jpg[/t] aaaaaaaaahhhh what the fuck is that[/QUOTE] I have no idea but it looks fuckin rad

[QUOTE=Ericson666;45184506][t]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-P5h8lGe-Xuw/UO3zzrIDGlI/AAAAAAAAakY/rEzwzlMN8Fw/s1600/GUN++HOMEMADE+%23+1.jpg[/t] aaaaaaaaahhhh what the fuck is that[/QUOTE] reminds me of a tmp

[QUOTE=Rexxasaurus;45182401]As much as it does annoy me that I can't own an airsoft, it's a small price to pay for safety. But yeah our gun laws are ridiculous. They make it insanely difficult just to get a gun license for clay shooting.[/QUOTE] You ban airsoft for safety lmao why not encourage wearing proper eye and face protection and only allow the guns to be displayed in certain areas. Or go even more extreme and not allow minors to own one. Really when people get hurt at the airsoft fields near me it's due to the environment and not the guns. Since if you even see somebody without adequate eye/face protection you have to yell it out and those who hear you must yell it out to stop the game.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45183609]The fact these weapons are getting made shows that gun laws work - the black market is way too expensive, so they're starting to make their own shit (which will most probably be of inferior use).[/QUOTE] work to do what exactly? Be specific. If you mean it works to make black marketeers have a dominant control of the supply of firearms, and there for able to jack the prices up, no shit. Black market firepower is expensive because certain criminal elements probably don't want to hand away their automatic weapons for cheaply. That would be an entirely different story in say, the US. If you mean it works to for the intended goal of disarming criminals, well short of some serious mental gymnastics it should be plainly obvious that's not the case. As for "inferior use" to what end? Most of these function identically to the weapon designs they were based off. Guns like MAC 10s and Grease Guns are not complex works of engineering, they are cheap and easy to make, which was the intention of their design.

[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;45185520]work to do what exactly? Be specific. If you mean it works to make black marketeers have a dominant control of the supply of firearms, and there for able to jack the prices up, no shit. Black market firepower is expensive because certain criminal elements probably don't want to hand away their automatic weapons for cheaply. That would be an entirely different story in say, the US. [B]If you mean it works to for the intended goal of disarming criminals, well short of some serious mental gymnastics it should be plainly obvious that's not the case.[/B] As for "inferior use" to what end? Most of these function identically to the weapon designs they were based off. Guns like MAC 10s and Grease Guns are not complex works of engineering, they are cheap and easy to make, which was the intention of their design.[/QUOTE] If the market price of a gun is high, fewer criminals will have access to them. I wouldn't call that mental gymnastics. At least not serious ones.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45185661]If the market price of a gun is high, fewer criminals will have access to them. I wouldn't call that mental gymnastics. At least not serious ones.[/QUOTE] yeah organized gangs might be able to afford to spend thousands of dollars to procure improvised firearms but organized criminals definitely aren't responsible for a majority of violent crime

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;45185780]Price doesn't mean shit if they're manufacturing reliable guns themselves.[/QUOTE] Uhm... Why exactly is that? Is [I]every[/I] criminal now capable of making their own gun? And if so, why didn't they do it before? You're kinda making some leaps here, and I'm not sure I follow every one of them.

This is some Mad Max shit.

Criminal elements aside some of these are just amazing from an engineering/manufacturing standpoint There's some weird steampunk utilitarian charm to homemade firearms

I'm surprised there's no Sten clones. Even the real Sten was just made of plumbing parts.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;45184911]You ban airsoft for safety lmao why not encourage wearing proper eye and face protection and only allow the guns to be displayed in certain areas. Or go even more extreme and not allow minors to own one. Really when people get hurt at the airsoft fields near me it's due to the environment and not the guns. Since if you even see somebody without adequate eye/face protection you have to yell it out and those who hear you must yell it out to stop the game.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure airsoft is banned because they look like real guns, not for safety. Paintball is still legal (albeit with a paintball marker being legally the same as a manually-operated/single shot rimfire rifle or a lever-action/double barrel/single shot shotgun) and I'm pretty sure airsoft isn't any more dangerous than that.

Airsoft is banned because Australian laws are fucking retarded. Seriously. There are so many ways they could keep the sport safe.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45186130]Uhm... Why exactly is that? Is [I]every[/I] criminal now capable of making their own gun? And if so, why didn't they do it before? You're kinda making some leaps here, and I'm not sure I follow every one of them.[/QUOTE]You can make your own gun, right now. If I went to where you live, I am 100% certain, like, bet my life certain, I could find everything I needed in one day to manufacture a fully automatic firearm. While I have years of machine experience and a lifetime of firearm experience and you don't, I'm telling you [i]now[/i] that it is possible. Did you know it was possible yesterday? Last week? Last year? No, probably not. You know now though, and that's why your argument is flawed. These improvised firearms are not a new thing, they've shown up all over the world and usually in response to local legislation and a growing market for them. Australia is yet another opportunity for the black market to capitalize on an item that's restricted and still in demand. Much like alcohol manufacture, entry into the firearms manufacturing business is only restricted by your disregard for the law and access to simple materials. Normally this has been regulated by the knowledge of [i]how to actually do it[/i] but these days we have the internet, and you can teach yourself a great many things from reading material online. I can tell you right now with absolute certainty that if firearms were suddenly illegal to own in the United States, I would go into the manufacture and sale of every single weapon I could think of. I'd manufacture assault rifles, machine guns, sniper rifles, land mines, and man portable anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapon systems. Why? Ask yourself, with such a ravenous and insatiable demand that's suddenly cropped up (there would most definitely be armed insurrection) why wouldn't I want to capitalize on that? What incentive would I have to ignore such a magnificent opportunity to make an obscene amount of money? [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] Also, no I will not give you plans on how to build a gun. Don't PM me about it, fuck off back to the Rust forum. (this isn't directed at you, GoDong-DK) [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] Also, I've cleared things up further down. I realize this post makes me seem like an elitist jackass, but that wasn't my intention. Sorry about the misunderstandings. :(

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;45188866]I can tell you right now with absolute certainty that if firearms were suddenly illegal to own in the United States, I would go into the manufacture and sale of every single weapon I could think of. I'd manufacture assault rifles, machine guns, sniper rifles, land mines, and man portable anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapon systems. Why? Ask yourself, with such a ravenous and insatiable demand that's suddenly cropped up (there would most definitely be armed insurrection) why wouldn't I want to capitalize on that?[B] What incentive would I have to ignore such a magnificent opportunity to make an obscene amount of money?[/B][/QUOTE] b-but it's illegal....... ...

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188]Christfuck could you come across as any more of an elitist douche? I agree with your argument but really? "I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS, YOU DONT, I'M BETTER". Also you wouldn't be making MANPADS or any form of anti-tank weapon, especially any MANPAD capable of taking down a modern aircraft. Nor would your "anti-tank" weapon do any real significant damage to a modern tank (especially the Abrams), maybe a shitty T series export model from the 70's, but not anything with modern chobam armor, and defiantly not anything with DU integrated into that chobham armor. I could see you making machine pistols, maybe limited assault rifles, but there's no way in fuck you'd be churning out "sniper rifles" and "anti-tank/anti-air" weaponry. In short: Get over yourself, there are those of us on this forum who've built plenty of weapons, you're nothing special, and you're showing that you haven't a clue what you're talking about when you say "lol i'd build manpads and anti-tank weapons".[/QUOTE] You misinterpret his argument: It's not "I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS, YOU DONT, I'M BETTER," it's "I know how to make effective weapons out of commonly found and mundane items, many more like me know how to do this, and most people can learn how to do this thanks to freely available resources."

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188]Christfuck could you come across as any more of an elitist douche? I agree with your argument but really? "I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS, YOU DONT, I'M BETTER". Also you wouldn't be making MANPADS or any form of anti-tank weapon, especially any MANPAD capable of taking down a modern aircraft. Nor would your "anti-tank" weapon do any real significant damage to a modern tank (especially the Abrams), maybe a shitty T series export model from the 70's, but not anything with modern chobam armor, and defiantly not anything with DU integrated into that chobham armor. I could see you making machine pistols, maybe limited assault rifles, but there's no way in fuck you'd be churning out "sniper rifles" and "anti-tank/anti-air" weaponry. In short: Get over yourself, there are those of us on this forum who've built plenty of weapons, you're nothing special, and you're showing that you haven't a clue what your talking about when you say "lol i'd build manpads and anti-tank weapons".[/QUOTE] Not to sound elitest but you don't know what your talking about. There's plenty of effective methods to disable, if not take out, an Abrams tank. All of which can be done with things you can find at your local hardware store. As for aircraft most jet fighters and such are untouchable even for modern man carried anti-air weapons. However, small arms fire can be plenty effective to helicopters and such. Aside from the cockpit most helos only have a very thin layer of aluminum between the exterior and interior of the aircraft. When I flew we'd wear thick plates of armor for ourselves and told the guys that would rude with us to put a plate under their ass because an AK can shoot straight through the aircraft. If you poke enough holes in anything they aren't going to run very well, and there is plenty of cases of helicopters being shot down by small arms fire alone. Something like an RPG-7 can be used to just as a great effect, which had happened more often than you would expect, and they are not that difficult to manufacture.

[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;45187201]I'm surprised there's no Sten clones. Even the real Sten was just made of plumbing parts.[/QUOTE] probably because it'd be pretty hard to conceal

[img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/803689-finks-guns.jpg[/img] these are badass jesus [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gun1.jpg[/img] [editline]23rd June 2014[/editline] [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/brazilianhomemadesmglarge.jpg[/img] some of these designs are actually pretty good tbh, they look like they'd fit right in an 80s action movie gang. [editline]23rd June 2014[/editline] fucking revolving shotguns: [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/homemaderevolvingshotgunsilver-improguns.jpg[/img] yeah these are straight from an 80s flick gang.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189250]Yes, but he's not talking about small arms, he's specifically mentioned manpads. The abrams would be mobility killed at best, the only tank I EVER saw with more than a mobility kill was one that rolled off the side of a mountain. And even then they got it back up and running after a week. I watched them run over IED's for breakfast, take RPG-7's and laugh them off, it was only the RPG-29 that even remotely damaged them, and that's due to the tandem warhead. An RPG-7 wouldn't take much to manufacture, but the actual warhead itself would require some skill in metallurgy, and the ability to form nearly perfect copper cones/shape charges.[/QUOTE] It really doesn't require all that much to take out a tank. It's about where you hit it more than with what. You could mage a pretty effective anti tank grenade using a shape charge on something that looks like a Nerf football with a streamer on it to hit the top side of the turret. With enough explosives under the road it doesn't matter if you penetrate the tank, the crew can be killed by concussion alone. In war mobility is everything, and if that tank can't move it can't do a whole lot more save due from a fixed position, which sooner or later won't mean anything.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188]Christfuck could you come across as any more of an elitist douche? I agree with your argument but really? "I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS, YOU DONT, I'M BETTER".[/QUOTE]This is not my argument at all. I'm going to just assume you've misunderstood my post, so I'll be clearing things up for you.[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188]Also you wouldn't be making MANPADS or any form of anti-tank weapon, especially any MANPAD capable of taking down a modern aircraft. Nor would your "anti-tank" weapon do any real significant damage to a modern tank (especially the Abrams), maybe a shitty T series export model from the 70's, but not anything with modern chobam armor, and defiantly not anything with DU integrated into that chobham armor.[/QUOTE]Yeah, no, I'm not going to be churning out Javelin anti-tank missiles out of my garage, but I'd be gathering up people who could write the source code for missile guidance and other assorted individuals right away. I'd also probably try to gather up all the very hard to get materials needed to do that, I mean this is a pretty hefty criminal enterprise we're talking about. I don't even have the means to print a circuit board, so I'd need that too, but I can see why you've misunderstood me. I should have worded my post in a way that didn't imply I could do literally everything just because I'm so cool or something.[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188]I could see you making machine pistols, maybe limited assault rifles, but there's no way in fuck you'd be churning out "sniper rifles" and "anti-tank/anti-air" weaponry.[/QUOTE]You know what the difference between a sniper rifle and an infantry rifle is? Tolerances. (and some other things, but that's the main difference) You pay for a certain degree of manufacturing tolerance in a rifle, and with a sniper rifle there's a great deal more care put into it's manufacture. As for the anti-tank and anti-air weaponry, see above.[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188]In short: Get over yourself, there are those of us on this forum who've built plenty of weapons, you're nothing special, and you're showing that you haven't a clue what you're talking about when you say "lol i'd build manpads and anti-tank weapons".[/QUOTE]Yeah, and could you just take a step back and not be such a magnificent asshole? I've always liked your posts and I consider you to be a rational poster, but you've jumped to conclusions too quickly. SGTNAPALM got it, I'm not sure why you didn't, but I hope I've cleared things up and we can get past this.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189366]Fair enough. Sorry to have shat down your throat. I've been dealing with the requisite bullshit of legal firearms manufacture this week (idiots asking for javalins, m2 .50's for less than 10grand) etc etc. I misunderstood the attitude of your post, my bad.[/QUOTE]It's okay, I forgive you. I didn't even give you any boxes, because I don't think you're dumb for misunderstanding my badly worded post. I feel your pain, that's why I added that little bit about people PMing me for stupid shit, I've been down that fucking road before.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189316]Well yes, absolutely. But even then, you mobility kill a tank, it's not like tanks arent in packs that are supported both by infantry and air units, with artillery as well. Assuming they're continuing to use the standard MAGTF doctrine that we've been using since ww2ish.[/QUOTE] MAGTF doctrine is all fine and dandy until you find yourself in an urban situation. If folks were to be using this stuff it would be guerrilla tactics, fighting face to face with that stuff would be a death sentence :P

[QUOTE=MenteR;45189282][img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/803689-finks-guns.jpg[/img] these are badass jesus [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gun1.jpg[/img] [editline]23rd June 2014[/editline] [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/brazilianhomemadesmglarge.jpg[/img] some of these designs are actually pretty good tbh, they look like they'd fit right in an 80s action movie gang. [editline]23rd June 2014[/editline] fucking revolving shotguns: [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/homemaderevolvingshotgunsilver-improguns.jpg[/img] yeah these are straight from an 80s flick gang.[/QUOTE] I need a modeler and a mapper, I'll code. Let's turn this into a game.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189422]That's what arty is for. Level the shit out of the urban area. I mean at this point the government has already gone full retard, i'd assume they'd be doing shit like that. [editline]23rd June 2014[/editline] Will this blow up: the game[/QUOTE] That can be a mechanic, if your gun gets too hot it blows up. If you're smart you can detonate it close to enemies to kill them. You ride motorcycles and do drivebys, it'll be kickass.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189394]The funny thing is I live in commifornia and cant even legally make half the things that are requested. Fucking idiots watching too many damn movies and saying "yep, i want that"[/QUOTE]I'm not even sure why they would even think "yeah I could probably own that without being in trouble." Maybe that's why so many people are anti-gun, because they think gun owners have access to this wondrous arsenal at every Wal-Mart.[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;45189405]MAGTF doctrine is all fine and dandy until you find yourself in an urban situation. If folks were to be using this stuff it would be guerrilla tactics, fighting face to face with that stuff would be a death sentence :P[/QUOTE]Most tanks are still vulnerable to flamethrowers and napalm anyway, the simplest of DIY weapons. Even if the fire suppression systems on the vehicle were state of the art, adding an oxidizer to the fuel immediately before use would negate any attempt to extinguish it. Sure you're not going to disable a vehicle, especially a tank, immediately after setting in on fire but you will eventually ruin it's day.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;45188866]You can make your own gun, right now. [B]If I went to where you live, I am 100% certain, like, bet my life certain, I could find everything I needed in one day to manufacture a fully automatic firearm. While I have years of machine experience and a lifetime of firearm experience and you don't, I'm telling you [i]now[/i] that it is possible. Did you know it was possible yesterday? Last week? Last year? No, probably not. You know now though, and that's why your argument is flawed.[/B] These improvised firearms are not a new thing, they've shown up all over the world and usually in response to local legislation and a growing market for them. Australia is yet another opportunity for the black market to capitalize on an item that's restricted and still in demand. Much like alcohol manufacture, entry into the firearms manufacturing business is only restricted by your disregard for the law and access to simple materials. Normally this has been regulated by the knowledge of [i]how to actually do it[/i] but these days we have the internet, and you can teach yourself a great many things from reading material online. I can tell you right now with absolute certainty that if firearms were suddenly illegal to own in the United States, I would go into the manufacture and sale of every single weapon I could think of. I'd manufacture assault rifles, machine guns, sniper rifles, land mines, and man portable anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapon systems. Why? Ask yourself, with such a ravenous and insatiable demand that's suddenly cropped up (there would most definitely be armed insurrection) why wouldn't I want to capitalize on that? What incentive would I have to ignore such a magnificent opportunity to make an obscene amount of money? [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] Also, no I will not give you plans on how to build a gun. Don't PM me about it, fuck off back to the Rust forum. (this isn't directed at you, GoDong-DK) [editline]22nd June 2014[/editline] Also, I've cleared things up further down. I realize this post makes me seem like an elitist jackass, but that wasn't my intention. Sorry about the misunderstandings. :([/QUOTE] I did know, though. Whether the guns on the black market are custom made or simply imported "real" guns doesn't really matter all that much to me. But the fact that they're now manufacturing guns themselves shows that the black market price has reached a certain point - a high one, probably. When the price is high, fewer criminals will have access to guns, which is a good thing in my book. Sure, you [I]can[/I] make a gun yourself, but every criminal will definitely not be able to do that. I know you're saying that it's incredibly simple (and I know that it isn't quantum physics), but thinking every criminal will be able to do it is probably overestimating them.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45189188] I could see you making machine pistols, maybe limited assault rifles, but there's no way in fuck you'd be churning out "sniper rifles" and "anti-tank/anti-air" weaponry. [/QUOTE] Anti air? No. Nobody can even come close. It is why there are only a very small number (compared to other weapons) of models of MANPAD in existence. Anti armor? That is pretty doable. A recoiless rifle would be pretty simple to make and could score a mobility kill on an abrams relatively easily. Granted you would then need to flee, as the Abrams would turn and score an actual kill on you and your buddies.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45189846]I did know, though. Whether the guns on the black market are custom made or simply imported "real" guns doesn't really matter all that much to me. But the fact that they're now manufacturing guns themselves shows that the black market price has reached a certain point - a high one, probably. When the price is high, fewer criminals will have access to guns, which is a good thing in my book. Sure, you [I]can[/I] make a gun yourself, but every criminal will definitely not be able to do that. I know you're saying that it's incredibly simple (and I know that it isn't quantum physics), but thinking every criminal will be able to do it is probably overestimating them.[/QUOTE]No, of course not every criminal will be whipping up some guns in their garage. While the requirements for entry are low, criminals are generally lazy by default. Sure there are a few types of criminals who are dedicated, driven individuals, but for the most part your average illicit firearm consumer isn't going to be too interested in hard work and careful planning. You're also mistaken on the price, and I really should have mentioned this earlier. Those numbers come from the legal side, and they're American prices, nobody is going to pay ten thousand fucking dollars for an illegal homebuilt MAC-10 clone. That's literally ten thousand you're going to throw away, because using the weapon means that shit is hot, you don't want to be caught with it. Firearms on the black market are a hell of a lot cheaper than they are on the legal market, because there's inherent risk in owning them.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;45190453]No, of course not every criminal will be whipping up some guns in their garage. While the requirements for entry are low, criminals are generally lazy by default. Sure there are a few types of criminals who are dedicated, driven individuals, but for the most part your average illicit firearm consumer isn't going to be too interested in hard work and careful planning. You're also mistaken on the price, and I really should have mentioned this earlier. Those numbers come from the legal side, and they're American prices, nobody is going to pay ten thousand fucking dollars for an illegal homebuilt MAC-10 clone. That's literally ten thousand you're going to throw away, because using the weapon means that shit is hot, you don't want to be caught with it. Firearms on the black market are a hell of a lot cheaper than they are on the legal market, because there's inherent risk in owning them.[/QUOTE] er no, firearms are more expensive in the black market due to the risk, risk drives up price