R3conmaster, how would you feel if you were evicted at gunpoint to make room for a Native American reserve?
[QUOTE=Chippays]I'm not sure how bombings that will only destroy lives and make Hamas stronger will teach them a lesson. If anything, Israel is doing exactly what Hamas wants.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely.
Hamas only exists because Israel does shit like this anyway. Desperate people always turn to the extremes.
If anyone doesn't understand the geography of the Gaza strip, they all walled in so tight (with concrete walls) that most of the land that can be build on, has been developed.
Combined with the fact that Israel are even bombing things Hamas police stations (Do they count as terrorists?) and that they aren't careful about where the drop their bombs or who is down there at the time, you get massive civilian casualties.
Hamas is not hiding behind civilians, Hamas is the government and employs militia made of of people who live in the cities. Israel is bombing every government building from militia storage compound to jail. No one is saying they are innocent, but they are NOT hiding in the cities to deter attacks or cry foul when Israel kills civilians.
Are 100 Palestinians worth 1 Israeli? Surely that isn't hard to answer.
Israel has been around for only 6 decades. In order to found their state they kicked out Palestinians at gunpoint, stole their houses and their land, and demomished what they didn't want.
Are Palestinians supposed to accept this? Would YOU?
Cool Fact: Israel ethnically cleansed 78% of Palestine.
Cool Fact: Israel currently annexed 22% of Palestine and is illegal under international law.
Cool Fact: 90% of Hamas is not militant.
This is Gaza City.
[img]http://www.zoin.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/gaza-city1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.zoin.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/gaza-city.jpg[/img]
[img]http://ontheface.blogware.com/gaza%20city_2.jpg[/img]
They don't live in fucking mudhuts. They did not live in some undeveloped wasteland before Israel aparently turned it into paradise.
[b]Edit:[/b]
This is Jerusalem.
[img]http://www.mceades.com/jerusalem/jerusalem1.jpg[/img]
Much of this was built by Palestinans, who have been THROWN OUT. Why is this ok? Obviously Arabs are just subhuman, who gives a fuck how they feel.
THEY WERE OCCUPIED AND DEPORTED.
[quote=NoDachi]Hamas said time and time again they would cease firing rockets if Israel honoured the original territorial agreements established with the creation of the state.[/quote]
Do you honestly believe that? I mean, seriously?
[quote=Wolf_Marine]God damn it, I have quite had it with you morons and your inability to understand what the hell is going on there.
Hamas is purposely placing their rocket and artillery crews inside their own civilian's homes and businesses. Their idea is to force Israel to kill civilians to neutralize the threats. Meanwhile Hamas is firing those rockets and artillery into Israel, killing innocent civilians. It is 100% Hamas' fault their civilians are being killed by these air raids because they have the audacity to place those rockets in the middle of these homes and families. Then the world has the stupidity to condemn Israel and completely ignoring Hamas and their actions prior to the results.
Think outside the box (if you are capable of it: ) What if Mexico suddenly decided it would launch rockets into the U.S. and hide those rockets inside the homes of civilian families? What if ANY country decides to launch rockets at a neighbor's civilian population and hide those rockets inside a family's home? No country is going to stand back and let their own civilians get killed because of such a petty shield. If the civilians are killed because of a retaliation to destroy those rocket threats, the country at fault is the one firing those rockets, not the one retaliating. So in this case, this is Hamas' fault, not Israel.[/quote]
Thank you.
[i]"Mr Meshaal said Hamas wanted a mutual ceasefire, that would also include the West Bank and which would reopen Gaza's borders.
Anything else, he said, would be Israel dictating a Palestinian "surrender".
"We said that if Israel commits itself to a comprehensive and mutual calm we are ready to co-operate - but Israel said no."
"Israel rejects all proposals. It sent us a message that the calm can only be in Gaza and not be related to the siege. Israel's demanding that Hamas stops the rockets. Then it will decide what it will do."[/i]
Neither side trusts its enemy.
The difference is Mexico has the fucking option of lauching missiles away from civilains, in the desert. The whole of the Gaza strip is a city.
[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine]Would you like it if somebody kept launching rockets into your town? Even if it isn't killing many people, that is still very tense, very frightening, very disturbing, more if your country isn't willing to retaliate. Hamas has got to learn one way or another to stop putting their civilians in the line of fire.[/QUOTE]
Hamas isn't going to "learn" anything. They don't give a damn whether or not Palestinian civilians are killed. All killing civilians is doing is making the rest of the Muslim world even more pissed off at Israel.
The reason Hamas is so strong is because there are so many people that hate Israel. Killing off civilians is just going to make Hamas stronger by creating more Hamas supporters.
You can't bomb someone into not hating you. Every civilian they kill just means more supporters for anti-Israel terrorist groups. The situation in the middle east isn't a Real Time Strategy game. "Killing all of the enemies" isn't an option.
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda]Hamas isn't going to "learn" anything. They don't give a damn whether or not Palestinian civilians are killed. All killing civilians is doing is making the rest of the Muslim world even more pissed off at Israel.
The reason Hamas is so strong is because there are so many people that hate Israel. Killing off civilians is just going to make Hamas stronger by creating more Hamas supporters.
You can't bomb someone into not hating you. Every civilian they kill just means more supporters for anti-Israel terrorist groups. The situation in the middle east isn't a Real Time Strategy game. "Killing all of the enemies" isn't an option.[/QUOTE]
It's a double-edge blade Israel is in, and unfortunately there isn't much else they are capable of doing.
-You cannot negotiate with Hamas. They won't make any sort of compromise, hell they won't acknowledge Israel's existence. That makes negotiating madness.
-You cannot get past the thick skulls of the rest of the world. They are only paying attention to what CNN, BBC others are covering without doing any sort of research into the depth and complexity of the situation at hand.
-Hamas are still showing the ideas of their terrorist roots, putting innocent civilian lives in danger to push their own political agenda (and of the very people they are supposed to protect too.) Their methods would be considered in a sane world to be condemned and stopped. But we don't live in that sane world now, do we?
Damn Israel is fucking shit up over there, again.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains]R3conmaster, how would you feel if you were evicted at gunpoint to make room for a Native American reserve?[/QUOTE]
Obviously I would become a terrorist and start launching missiles at them.
[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine]It's a double-edge blade Israel is in, and unfortunately there isn't much else they are capable of doing.
-You cannot negotiate with Hamas. They won't make any sort of compromise, hell they won't acknowledge Israel's existence. That makes negotiating madness.
-You cannot get past the thick skulls of the rest of the world. They are only paying attention to what CNN, BBC others are covering without doing any sort of research into the depth and complexity of the situation at hand.
-Hamas are still showing the ideas of their terrorist roots, putting innocent civilian lives in danger to push their own political agenda (and of the very people they are supposed to protect too.) Their methods would be considered in a sane world to be condemned and stopped. But we don't live in that sane world now, do we?[/QUOTE]
Yes yes yadda yadda you've still yet to prove to me how killing civilians is justified, especially when it's not even doing Israel any good.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=R3conmaster]Obviously I would become a terrorist and start launching missiles at them.[/QUOTE]
It's not comparable because you don't live in the same society or culture as these people. I'm not justifying the actions of Hamas, I'm simply saying that just because you can't easily see a reason for their actions doesn't mean they don't have one.
[QUOTE=NoDachi][i]"Mr Meshaal said Hamas wanted a mutual ceasefire, that would also include the West Bank and which would reopen Gaza's borders.
Anything else, he said, would be Israel dictating a Palestinian "surrender".
"We said that if Israel commits itself to a comprehensive and mutual calm we are ready to co-operate - but Israel said no."
"Israel rejects all proposals. It sent us a message that the calm can only be in Gaza and not be related to the siege. Israel's demanding that Hamas stops the rockets. Then it will decide what it will do."[/i]
Neither side trusts its enemy.[/QUOTE]
Uh yeah, who starting attacking the other when the ceasefire ended?
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda]Yes yes yadda yadda you've still yet to prove to me how killing civilians is justified, especially when it's not even doing Israel any good.
It's not comparable because you don't live in the same society or culture as these people. I'm not justifying the actions of Hamas, I'm simply saying that just because you can't easily see a reason for their actions doesn't mean they don't have one.[/QUOTE]
You know you are right. We should acknowledge Osama bin Laden's "culture" and not come after him.
Because everyone knows terrorists are okay as long as its only Jews they are killing.
[QUOTE=R3conmaster]Uh yeah, who starting attacking the other when the ceasefire ended?
[b]Edit:[/b]
You know you are right. We should acknowledge Osama bin Laden's "culture" and not come after him.
Because everyone knows terrorists are okay as long as its only Jews they are killing.[/QUOTE]
shit everything ya say is crystal clear
its the funny lookin people we need to kill in masses, and obviously them palestinerians arent whiter then them jews. if we dont stop killin civilians then the terrorists AND barack osama bin laden will win!
!
[QUOTE=R3conmaster]Uh yeah, who starting attacking the other when the ceasefire ended?
[/QUOTE]
hahaha
[QUOTE=arabman]shit everything ya say is crystal clear
its the funny lookin people we need to kill in masses, and obviously them palestinerians arent whiter then them jews. if we dont stop killin civilians then the terrorists AND barack osama bin laden will win!
![/QUOTE]
I never said civilian casualties were acceptable, however there is a line between accidental casualties and direct targets. And by the way I voted for Barack Obama, as did 78% of America's Jews. Christians? Not so much.
Jesus christ, this thread is full of insanity.
I say let them fight.
What the hell can we do? keep stalling this? The only the war can officially end is for one side of the conflict to erradicate the other.
I don't care for ether Israel or Palestine.
But one country attacking in an inhumane way does not justify doing something equally wrong in retaliation.
[QUOTE=Thlis]I don't care for ether Israel or Palestine.
But one country attacking in an inhumane way does not justify doing something equally wrong in retaliation.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I believe both should be blamed.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Xystus234]Jesus christ, this thread is full of insanity.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/15gxa1i.jpg[/IMG]
-snip-
Israel sucks.
[QUOTE=Amez]Lets put it into the FP perspective:
It's just like trying to troll the mods.
Mods - Israel
Hezbollah - Troll
They're going to get mega-banned.[/QUOTE]
Actually it's nothing like that. Your post is just like shitting up a thread though
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]Civillians aren't fucking with Israeli, last time I heard, it was Extremists who caused it, and now Hamas Militants are defending their people. It's like saying, if Muslim Extremists bombed one of our military vehicles, we should go ahead and bomb whatever town/city they're from.[/QUOTE]
Completely different thing.
we're occupying their land, killing their citizens, if a country did that to us, we'd be fucking up their military vehicles too.
now, hamas is firing rockets [b]randomly[/b] into citizen territory, a act of terrorism, and Isreal is simply firing on where the rockets are, see it cold/evil, but Isreal is protecting it's citizens from terrorists, by any means, don't fuck with Isreal.
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=Amez]Lets put it into the FP perspective:
It's just like trying to troll the mods.
Mods - Israel
Hezbollah - Troll
They're going to get mega-banned.[/QUOTE]
that'd be correct if the people could hide behind 200 people each, and the mods were megabanning all 200 for being there.
[QUOTE=left4luke]Completely different thing.
we're occupying their land, killing their citizens, if a country did that to us, we'd be fucking up their military vehicles too.
now, hamas is firing rockets [b]randomly[/b] into citizen territory, a act of terrorism, and Isreal is simply firing on where the rockets are, see it cold/evil, but Isreal is protecting it's citizens from terrorists, by any means, don't fuck with Isreal.[/QUOTE]
In what way are 20 Palestinian lives worth 1 Israeli?
The whole "well they should have left Israel alone" thing doesn't play so well when you remember that they were burned out of their houses and now live in blockaded ghettos INSIDE ISRAEL
[QUOTE=TH89]In what way are 20 Palestinian lives worth 1 Israeli?
The whole "well they should have left Israel alone" thing doesn't play so well when you remember that they were burned out of their houses and now live in blockaded ghettos INSIDE ISRAEL[/QUOTE]
I never said that 20=1
I said Isreal is protecting it's citizens, which may be counter productive to the goal.
I'm really nuetral on the subject, I can see both sides and I can justify both of the countries actions.
How is Israel protecting their citizens by killing 5x more palestinian citizens?
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff]How is Israel protecting their citizens by killing 5x more palestinian citizens?[/QUOTE]
If you kill all of your enemy, your enemy is dead.
Civilians aren't the enemy mate.
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