[QUOTE=lolwutdude]And what do you think the Civillians will think? Out of the many casualities, 60 were women and children. Do you think the Palenstinians will just smile and say 'Thank you Israel for getting rid of the Hamas'? Even though they inflicted so many causualities as well destroyed their buildings so much, they're unrecognizable? By continuing to bomb innocent civillians to order to stop extremists/terrorists who could give less fuck to the innoncent people because of their twisted interpretation of religion, they're only riling up the Civillians. They'll be on Hama's side, and I wouldn't be surprised if Palenstinians were being caught manning one of the rockets out of revenge.
By your logic, we should stay in Iraq/Iran/Whatever until Al-Quida, Muslim Extremist Terorrists, and etc is eradicated, and look where that's gotten us.[/QUOTE]
Sure, killing the civillians is wrong, but that is the only wrong thing Israel is doing, and it's quite hard not to harm civillians if HAMAS hides between them, but even if it costs civillian lives, they have to.
Also HAMAS is by no means going to stop by itself (only when all Israelis are dead, then they will stop).
And by your logic no country should defend itself.
to Conscript: No, just read the post he answered to and you will see why i answered like that, nothing to do with ego or anything.
[QUOTE=acds]Sure, killing the civillians is wrong, but that is the only wrong thing Israel is doing, and it's quite hard not to harm civillians if HAMAS hides between them, but even if it costs civillian lives, they have to.
Also HAMAS is by no means going to stop by itself (only when all Israelis are dead, then they will stop).
And by your logic no country should defend itself.[/QUOTE]
Read the post above you.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]Read the post above you.[/QUOTE]
Lets not.
...
[QUOTE=starpluck]"Zionistism is a religion"[/QUOTE]
What's it's God or Gods?
Also you if you were really angry about what is happening to your people then I think you wouldn't say, "would have wrote more but I have to play my PS3"...
Sounds so compassionate.
[QUOTE=starpluck] guess who made Hamas. [/QUOTE]
Palestinians who wanted to kill Israelis.
Erase them from Earth.
[QUOTE=Western_Open]Palestinians who want their country back.[/QUOTE]
There we go.
[QUOTE=Western_Open]Lets not.[/QUOTE]
All I've seen from you is being a total jackass who is no different from anyone saying 'You're stupid', 'You don't know what your talking about' and etc.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]I'm not. I'm not saying Israel should not defend themselves, hell, I'd support if they are going in defenseive. [i]They're not[/i], they're on the OFFENSIVE. Instead of pinpointing where the Hamas terrorists are, they're picking a rather large area where the civillians are and bombing it mindlessly with their F-16 Jet which makes pretty huge explosions. And they're pissing off the civillians by causing so many casualities to much, some of them might be supporting Hamas and being converted to the other side. Israel is not doing fucking anything that supports peace or diplomacy, they're being BULLIES and pissing everyone off. They're [b] NOT [/b] DEFENDING themselves, I don't see them setting up and patrolling the borders enough, I don't see them trying their best to pinpoint where a rocket is coming from ( Not that hard with military technology ) and using precision missiles instead, I see them bombing mindlessly with their jets.[/QUOTE]
It's nearly impossible to pinpoint HAMAS, especially because they blend in with the civillians, but i agree that they should try to limit civillian casualties, but it's also hard not to harm civillians when you have to bomb a building in the middle of a city (probably with both civillians and HAMAS inside of the same building).
Israel being bullies? since Israel has existed they have been subject to terrorist attack, joint attack by several nations at once and hate, and they are being bullies?
Also, destroying the missile launch sites isn't enough, they need to strike HAMAS where it hurts, sadly HAMAS hides it most important parts in civillian filled areas.
All I know is that I'd rather see Israel dominate than a bunch of islamic extremists.
Pity about the civilians though, bombing them is only going to increase the amount of support for hamas. As much as I like to see hamas go down, it's probably going to survive this, even though it's going to be extremely weakened.
[QUOTE=acds]It's nearly impossible to pinpoint HAMAS, especially because they blend in with the civillians, but i agree that they should try to limit civillian casualties, but it's also hard not to harm civillians when you have to bomb a building in the middle of a city (probably with both civillians and HAMAS inside of the same building).
Israel being bullies? since Israel has existed they have been subject to terrorist attack, joint attack by several nations at once and hate, and they are being bullies?
Also, destroying the missile launch sites isn't enough, they need to strike HAMAS where it hurts, sadly HAMAS hides it most important parts in civillian filled areas.[/QUOTE]
Then it's nearly impossible to win this war anyhow. It only takes one man to appear infront of a crowd who is distressed from their university and buildings destroyed and their people killed and ask them to join their cause. And ta-da, you got more terrorists for Israel. This is similiar to the Iraq War. It only takes 1 man to appear infront of many people to join their cause because Americans came, occupied, and bombed their land.
And instead of bombing buildings with an F-16 Jet which could inflict HUGE causualities, why not send in ground troops like they threatened? While their add it, have their ground troops give aids to the real civillians to actually [i] look good [/i] and have the innocents believe they're here to HELP and not be bombing madmen. You can say this could inflicts causualities on Israel, but they're repeatly called 'The best military in Middle East' here in Facepunch, couldn't they take down less-trained Insurgents easily?
Yes, Israel is being bullies. I sympathize their sad past and such, but right now, they're not being any different. They walled in the Palestininans and treated them like second-class citizens.
So, they can go ahead and repeatly bomb where HAMAS are, but that'll just have the real terrorists use the bombed sites, causualities, and etc use it as their cause, and recruit more people to man their rockets.
[QUOTE=Western_Open]What's it's God or Gods?
Also you if you were really angry about what is happening to your people then I think you wouldn't say, "would have wrote more but I have to play my PS3"...
Sounds so compassionate.[/QUOTE]
All you do is post crap and manipulate other posts. Seriously leave.
PS3's has a limit on how much you can type at once, plus I am not using a keyboard.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]All I've seen from you is being a total jackass who is no different from anyone saying 'You're stupid', 'You don't know what your talking about' and etc.[/QUOTE]
You also disagree with everything I say so you opinion is biased and flawed when you pronounce Judgement on me.
And why does everyone think Israel is not trying to stop Civilian Casualties, maybe they are and it would be a ton worse if they were not.
[QUOTE=Western_Open]You also disagree with everything I say so you opinion is biased and flawed when you pronounce Judgement on me.
And why does everyone think Israel is not trying to stop Civilian Casualties, maybe they are and it would be a ton worse if they were not.[/QUOTE]
You are disagreeing with my opinion, therefore you are biased and flawed. So, I will ignore what you just said there.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]Yes, Israel is being bullies. I sympathize their sad past and such, but right now, they're not being any different. They walled in the Palestininans and treated them like second-class citizens.[/QUOTE]
May I ask you to waste your time showing me prove that Israel does this to non-jews?
[b]Edit:[/b]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]You are disagreeing with my opinion, therefore you are biased and flawed. So, I will ignore what you just said there.[/QUOTE]
Yet I do not pronounce Judgement on you like I did so you seem to be going around in circles.
[QUOTE=Western_Open]May I ask you to waste your time showing me prove that Israel does this to non-jews?
[b]Edit:[/b]
Yet I do not pronounce Judgement on you like I did so you seem to be going around in circles.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I refuse to debate with a man so biased and flawed.
[QUOTE=starpluck]All you do is post crap and manipulate other posts. Seriously leave.
PS3's has a limit on how much you can type at once, plus I am not using a keyboard.[/QUOTE]
You're playing the PS3 and auguring for your peoples lives, that is epic man.
The king of multi-tasking, killing Covenant and keeping the people of Palestinian safe.
[QUOTE=Western_Open]You also disagree with everything I say so you opinion is biased and flawed when you pronounce Judgement on me.
And why does everyone think Israel is not trying to stop Civilian Casualties, maybe they are and it would be a ton worse if they were not.[/QUOTE]
I heard on a interview on some Israeli government dude, that said that these actions had to happen and offers had to be made. Not something that they want of course.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]I'm sorry, I refuse to debate with a man so biased and flawed.[/QUOTE]
Then how can you be right if you will not show the evidence?
[QUOTE=Western_Open]
And why does everyone think Israel is not trying to stop Civilian Casualties, maybe they are and it would be a ton worse if they were not.[/QUOTE]
No, they aren't, when you kill that much civilians so fast.
To be honest I think they just deploy bombs on an area with a lot of buildings, hoping they would score. If not, that is exactly what it looks.
[QUOTE=starpluck]No, they aren't, when you kill that much civilians so fast.
To be honest I think they just deploy bombs on an area with a lot of buildings, hoping they would score. If not, thats exactly what it looks.[/QUOTE]
Of course HAMAS is different than that eh.
Seriously
If you don't live here, shut the fuck up and don't act like you know something
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]...they're repeatly called 'The best military in Middle East' here in Facepunch, couldn't they take down less-trained Insurgents easily?
[/QUOTE]
Seeing as the United States has on the best militaries in the world and they can't do it very easily, so no.
Israel is in the right for not agreeing to a truce, Hamas would never agree to it and would continue to fire rockets at Israel. And what some of you are not seeing is that Israel does not take pleasure in killing civilians, and it is done on accident, but Hamas enjoys killing the infidels, even if it means women and children, they are sick bastards.
I will say one thing.
Hamas is purposefully launching missiles at Israeli civilian targets. The reason there is few Israeli civilian casualties compared to Palestinian is:
a) Hamas is hiding their missiles close to civilian populations.
b) Israel has a much more developed infrastructure and has been putting up with this shit for six decades and the civilians know how to react in the event of a rocket attack.
What I think is that the countries/groups surrounding Israel never seem to, if I may, "learn their lesson"
Since the creation of Israel many of these groups have attacked the country for whatever reason, all or most of the times they got their asses handed to them, and each time they wait a couple months/years and then attack Israel again, and get all pissy AGAIN when they get owned AGAIN.
I think an appropriate picture to describe this situation would be:
[IMG]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5352/atheistcartoonke1vv9.gif[/IMG]
Replacing the Athiest with Israel, the pastor with Palestine, and the cross with a missile.
[QUOTE=acds]It's nearly impossible to pinpoint HAMAS, especially because they blend in with the civillians, but i agree that they should try to limit civillian casualties, but it's also hard not to harm civillians when you have to bomb a building in the middle of a city (probably with both civillians and HAMAS inside of the same building).
Israel being bullies? since Israel has existed they have been subject to terrorist attack, joint attack by several nations at once and hate, and they are being bullies?
Also, destroying the missile launch sites isn't enough, they need to strike HAMAS where it hurts, sadly HAMAS hides it most important parts in civillian filled areas.[/QUOTE]
You know, because killing a few civilians here and there isn't a big deal, right? "Limit civilian casualties"? How about do away with them completely. If they knew what they were doing there would not be civilian casualties.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]Then it's nearly impossible to win this war anyhow. It only takes one man to appear infront of a crowd who is distressed from their university and buildings destroyed and their people killed and ask them to join their cause. And ta-da, you got more terrorists for Israel. This is similiar to the Iraq War. It only takes 1 man to appear infront of many people to join their cause because Americans came, occupied, and bombed their land.[/QUOTE]
But the last time I checked, escalation in Iraq has gone down drastically, and we're giving more provinces over to Iraqi soldiers faster than we thought. I think they're all diverting their funds to Afghanistan now because they've been more active there now.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]And instead of bombing buildings with an F-16 Jet which could inflict HUGE causualities, why not send in ground troops like they threatened? While their add it, have their ground troops give aids to the real civillians to actually [i] look good [/i] and have the innocents believe they're here to HELP and not be bombing madmen. You can say this could inflicts causualities on Israel, but they're repeatly called 'The best military in Middle East' here in Facepunch, couldn't they take down less-trained Insurgents easily?[/QUOTE]
Ok. God dammit. War is war. People die in war, get the FUCK over it. Nothing is going prevent a school, or hospital from being accidentally or purposely bombed. Nothing will bring back the dead, those that deserved it and those that were just innocent.
Was the US bullies when we dropped Fat man and Little boy on Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Some say it was extreme, but with the risk of losing over half a million US soldiers in a Japanese invasion, they chose to force surrender by inflicting mass civilian death. It's not right, but it happens, sadly. You can't change the fact that war is a bloody and horrible thing. I'm drawing a parallel from Israel today and the Japan of the 1940's, with some differences yes.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude]
So, they can go ahead and repeatly bomb where HAMAS are, but that'll just have the real terrorists use the bombed sites, causualities, and etc use it as their cause, and recruit more people to man their rockets.[/QUOTE]
That's why Israel shouldn't be blindly bombing Gaza. The US has smart bombs and JDAM's, why can they use them? Seriously, it'd reduce the casualties by a good bit of people. But this is where I'm greatly angered. Hamas is a bunch of pussies. They hide behind the innocent and when civilians die, they say that Israel is a horrible, murderous country full of people who don't deserve their land. Hamas, though, needs to be eradicated. People like them only cause problems, not solve them.
...
[QUOTE=OHaiYo]Seriously
If you don't live here, shut the fuck up and don't act like you know something[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you bitching about
[QUOTE=OHaiYo]Seriously
If you don't live here, shut the fuck up and don't act like you know something[/QUOTE]
This.
We don't know what exactly is happening down there, and newspapers are unreliable because they always make the situation look worse than what it is.
Also, if you don't live there, you can't know how the situation is, so of course we don't understand how the Israelis (and Palestinians) feel, if we did, maybe we would not even be arguing about this, so let's stop arguing, until we experience what it is like we should not be saying "don't invade, don't bomb" or "invade and bomb", since we would probably change idea very quickly if a missile dropped a few meters from your house.
By the way, this applies to me too, so i will stop argiung about this.
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