• Israel Thread [STOP MAKING NEW ONES]
    3,126 replies, posted
Palestinians were treated like shit before they voted in Hamas, and did you honestly just say that it's a Muslim's religious duty to kill Jews? Seriously what. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a supporter of Hamas, I think they're a terrorist organisation. That doesn't mean that the Palestinian civilians are de facto terrorists for voting them into power though. There were a lot more factors in play than "man that party wants to commit genocide against the jews lets all vote them in yeaaaaaah". Hamas HAS taken a step towards trying to barter peace in the past, offering peace in exchange for it's 1967 borders ([url=http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035414.html]Click[/url]). That was obviously unsuccessful, and went back to rocket attacks, a terrible idea that they really need to stop if they want to get anywhere. However, Israel is also in the wrong, a military strike far disproportionate to what was done to them, and causing significant civilian casualties. Also a very shitty idea. I don't like either side's stance on the issue to be honest, I think the actions of both parties are to be condemned, but Israel's to be condemned more.
[QUOTE=N0 WAR alt]<insert anti-xbox360 joke here>[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.halobuds.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/red-ring-of-death-2-15-08.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=NoDachi]Learn your history kid. Hamas was created in the first uprising against Israeli occupation. As an extreme solution to a extreme problem.[/QUOTE] Shut up old man, I get to call you that because you have 3 years on me, which makes you infinity wiser. Also Hamas is an off-shoot of the muslim brotherhood [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood[/url] Go back to school old man. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=Conscript]Haha, religious duty. And back up your claims that Israel is only hostile towards the palestinians because Hamas is in power.[/QUOTE] Yes it is. Also no I didn't say that. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=KillerTV]Palestinians were treated like shit before they voted in Hamas, and did you honestly just say that it's a Muslim's religious duty to kill Jews? Seriously what. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a supporter of Hamas, I think they're a terrorist organisation. That doesn't mean that the Palestinian civilians are de facto terrorists for voting them into power though. There were a lot more factors in play than "man that party wants to commit genocide against the jews lets all vote them in yeaaaaaah". Hamas HAS taken a step towards trying to barter peace in the past, offering peace in exchange for it's 1967 borders ([url=http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035414.html]Click[/url]). That was obviously unsuccessful, and went back to rocket attacks, a terrible idea that they really need to stop if they want to get anywhere. However, Israel is also in the wrong, a military strike far disproportionate to what was done to them, and causing significant civilian casualties. Also a very shitty idea. I don't like either side's stance on the issue to be honest, I think the actions of both parties are to be condemned, but Israel's to be condemned more.[/QUOTE] The last thing Israel needed to do was give them back their land in exchange for a "hudna" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudna[/url] [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=j00g0t0wnd][img]http://www.halobuds.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/red-ring-of-death-2-15-08.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Exquisite
Hamas now*plans major suicide attacks inside Israel. The group actually warned Muslims who are foreign citizens to leave Israel immediately: [url]http://samsonblinded.org/news/hamas-warned-muslims-to-flee-israel-5473[/url]
[QUOTE=Karskiner] Yes it is. Also no I didn't say that. [/QUOTE] I hope you only forgot because you said something stupid (again :() [quote=Karskiner]Might be that Israel treats them like shit because they elect paramilitary, recognized terrorist, Islamist extremist organizations to be their government, I don't know.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Conscript]I hope you only forgot because you said something stupid (again :()[/QUOTE] I'm talking about right now, as in there are over 360 casualties (most of them Hamas members), and the civilians are being killed in the cross-fire because they support Hamas.
It's not a cross-fire when it's only one way :downs: Gaza is a densely packed ghetto, how can they avoid the Israeli fire?
Yay death cycle!
[QUOTE=Karskin]I'm talking about right now, as in there are over 360 casualties (most of them Hamas members), and the civilians are being killed in the cross-fire because they support Hamas.[/QUOTE] First off, I apologize for the bit of trolling in that one post. I wasn't too happy when you were trying to call me a close minded twat. Anyway. I think it was mentioned already, maybe not in this thread, that most of the 360 aren't regarded as civilians because they work for interior security. It's one of main sources of jobs for palestinians, and it's not collapsing anytime soon unlike the rest of private job sources because it's owned by the government. To give you an idea the problem with the job problem over there, 23% of the whole population is unemployed. It doesn't help that there's a blockade. And the civilians aren't being killed because they support Hamas, I don't know how you can differentiate between a civilian that does and one that doesn't when you're dropping bombs on a city.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot] The term isn't inherently violent so I'm not sure why. Unless you were thinking something about giving small children lollipops.[/QUOTE] Pacifier: [img]http://www.medgadget.com/archives/img/pacifier.jpg[/img] Lollipop: [img]https://www.ladybuggiftstore.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/KC313-Ladybug-Lollipop-Small.jpg[/img] You are no-longer a credible source of information of this topic.
[QUOTE=Conscript]First off, I apologize for the bit of trolling in that one post. I wasn't too happy when you were trying to call me a close minded twat. Anyway. I think it was mentioned already, maybe not in this thread, that most of the 360 aren't regarded as civilians because they work for interior security. It's one of main sources of jobs for palestinians, and it's not collapsing anytime soon unlike the rest of private job sources because it's owned by the government. To give you an idea the problem with the job problem over there, 23% of the whole population is unemployed. It doesn't help that there's a blockade. And the civilians aren't being killed because they support Hamas, I don't know how you can differentiate between a civilian that does and one that doesn't when you're dropping bombs on a city.[/QUOTE] So if a person signs up for a job where their life is put on the line, why is it surprising that they die in conflict with their opponents? The Hamas police force isn't the same as the American police force. The Gestapo was a police force. The NKVD was a police force.
[QUOTE=GunFox](In spite of the fact that they are all full of shit and it IS the rightful home of the Hebrew people.)[/QUOTE] It [I]was,[/I] but that was over a millenium ago. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=El Pollo] Give me a break, don't make me bring up Vietnam or ww2. You know what america and the british did? They fucking torched a city with firebombs. Dresden+firebombs=don't fucking cry over dead zealous assholes who take others along with them.[/QUOTE] Holy shit you're dumb. This is not about "WELL LOOK WHAT YOU DID 50 YEARS AGO" This is about what's happening right now, and why it isn't right.
Well this should take heat off of America for a while. :coal:
[QUOTE=Arachnidus]The Deagle is of Israeli origin, you do the math.[/QUOTE] Wrong, it's from Chicago. IMI bought it out.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy]I'm anti-both. They are acting like dumbshits launching rocket attacks at each other and killing innocents.[/QUOTE] Agreed. Neither deserve their own countries if they can't talk to resolve their problems.
This is why you don't go in gun blazing and pretend all of them are gonna let themselves get blown up by tanks and bombs.
Sadly, whilst HAMAS's view of Israel is wrong (they basically want to remove Israel from the map), they are actually doing good for Palestine, having introduced social security to the country, and reducing corruption. But I think both countries will go to the dogs over each over, considering the animosity,
[QUOTE=Western_Open][url]http://www.rightsidenews.com/200812283134/culture-wars/hamas-legalizes-the-crucifixion-of-christians-and-other-enemies.html[/url] Of course they are fighting for Interdependence and the peaceful beautiful Islamic religion.[/QUOTE] They didn't read their own book. :downs:
[QUOTE=Jack Bryce]Collateral damage I guess, still, their deaths were unnecessary.[/QUOTE] It was just bad luck. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The wives and the children anyway. Besides, killing children is an insurance policy that they won't come after you when they're all grown up.
[QUOTE=Jack Bryce]Collateral damage I guess, still, their deaths were unnecessary.[/QUOTE] Yeah, Israel should have kept 24 hour air surveillance of the place until he came out (if he came out) and then hit him with their ultra precise bombs that would have killed him and him only. [b]Edit:[/b] [QUOTE=Fuxtun]lol deagle wins again[/QUOTE] Because a clumsy over-rated handgun killed all those Palestinians, not thousands of pounds of high explosive. :rolleye:
I say all countries with nukes legalize the nukification of all these fucking muslim countries and send them to their god so we can be done with this shit.
Something I think a lot of people are missing here is that Hamas isn't really like a lot of terrorist organizations. They aren't a terrorist organization in the traditional sense. They are more like a rebel group that is HEAVILY funded by outside sources. So you have these rebel forces living in your country and attacking your people with all the zealousness and craziness of terrorists with the funding, backing, and frequently training, of a serious military force. [B]SO[/B] how do you all propose that Israel deals with this threat? Just rolls over and let them have their way? THEY ARE CRAZY. You don't want them in government. Israel chose to bomb civilian sectors rather than keep them inside their government. They chose to go to WAR rather than keep them inside the government. With good reason. Again, Hamas are crazy religious zealots. They roll with the old laws. Subjugation of women, stoning rape victims to death, etc etc. So what? You want those crazy fuckers to gain power over the Israelis? Israelis don't even have the death penalty. If people would stop attacking their civilians all day long every day, Israel wouldn't have to do shit like this. I mean look at Israel on the map: [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/LocationIsrael.svg[/url] Can you imagine a less strategically defensible position? They are constantly exposed to the country being bisected in two. With their capital sitting right on the edge of their territory. They are sitting there with their backs to the proverbial wall (THE FUCKING OCEAN) and attempting desperately to defend what is theirs from an extremist group which is willing to do anything to push its crazy agenda. I mean fuck, the Israelis have to design public buildings and street systems with CAR BOMBS IN MIND. The entire country is put together in an effort to reduce damage caused by suicide bombers. They have gone to great lengths to maintain peace and attempt to overcome the bombings. Everyone around them hates them with a passion, in spite of the fact that they would like nothing more than to be simply left alone. So basically what this boils down to is the fact that everyone who isn't an Israeli is an enemy combatant or supports them. So Israel has been backed into a corner and they are exercising their only real options left, which is to flex the muscle that they have, which their enemy does not: Direct confrontation. Keep in mind that these so called "terrorist attacks" against Israel aren't actually terrorist attacks. They are simply attacks by what is effectively a rival enemy military that lacks the ability to fight directly. Israel however cannot fight a guerrilla war because they lack sufficient numbers of crazy people to fuel such a fighting style. So they fight back in their own fashion with open warfare. Hamas has been pushing Israel towards this sort of thing for years and years now, and now they hide behind civilians and attempt to point the finger at Israel and call them the bad guy. Sorry Hamas, you are still using your own supporters as meat shields. You knew damn well that Israel was eventually going to be left with one option, and in reality this is exactly what you were going for all along. Hamas can't win a military campaign, but they can try to win a PR campaign by getting Israel to kill civilians. But in truth the blood isn't on Israeli hands, it is on the hands of Hamas.
[QUOTE=Morbo!!!]It's all religion's fault. One's holy book says this and the other's says that, they conflict and they're fucked.[/QUOTE] Such is the way of people clinging to primitive ideologies and idiosyncrasies. I don't know when the decline of religion will begin, but for the sake of humanity I hope it's soon. Honestly, take a look at a good bit of the wars in the past 2009 years, there's been maybe 10 or so that [b]weren't[/b] religious. I can count both world wars, the civil war, the war on terror, Vietnam, the Napoleonic Wars, and a few other older ones. Excluding those we've got crusades, romans beating the shit out of people, Berbers beating the shit out of people, Muslims going crazy in the name of Allah, more crusades, and general mass hysteria involving religious figures telling everyone to go fight each other. I'm all for religion, but maybe if it didn't cause so much fucking strife.
[QUOTE=Gorgonoth] romans beating the shit out of people, Berbers beating the shit out of people[/QUOTE] The first of these really doesn't have much to do with religion. The second does but you're also lumping in numerous wars not about religion.
Religion is but one of the many wheels that keeps the war machine goin'.
[QUOTE=GunFox]Hamas can't win a military campaign, but they can try to win a PR campaign by getting Israel to kill civilians.[/QUOTE] Which is funny, given outrage from the rest of the world never accomplishes shit. You'd figure they'd rather bide their time... [QUOTE=Rofl my Waff]You don't know how the palestinians feel, you're solution is to kill millions of palestinians and then the conflict is over.[/QUOTE] Because it would work. Last thing I'm saying to you, if you live in a world where death doesn't end conflict, and "how people feel" is somehow more important than actual military capability, I can't discuss anything with you. You're so far removed from logic that there's no way to maintain this without hitting you in the head with a sledgehammer. [QUOTE=Uber|nooB]Xenocidebot is clearly some kind of an AI that will at some point conclude that it needs to destroy humanity completely to save the earth, but has no means to do it (apart from posting on the internet)[/QUOTE] Haw.
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475525,00.html[/url] [quote] An Israeli airstrike Saturday killed a senior Hamas commander, Reuters reported. Hamas said the airstrike in Gaza killed Abu Zakaria al-Jamal, a senior leader of the armed wing of the militant group. The Israeli army would only say it carried out a series of air attacks through the night. Israeli warplanes and gunboats blasted more than two dozen Hamas targets Saturday, including weapons storage facilities, training centers and leaders' homes as Israel's offensive against Gaza's Islamic militant rulers entered a second week. The Jerusalem Post reported the home of al-Jamal was a target of the raids. He was the third senior Hamas operative to be targeted. In a strike Friday the Israeli Air Force bombed the house of top Hamas operative Imad Akel. The Israeli military reported hearing secondary blasts at the house, indicating the presence of a stash of weapons and explosives in the home, the Jerusalem Post reported. On Thursday an Israeli warplane dropped a 2,000-pound bomb on the home of one of Hamas' top five decision-makers, instantly killing him and 18 others. The airstrike on Nizar Rayan was the first that succeeded in killing a member of Hamas' highest echelon since Israel began its offensive. The Jerusalem Post also reported Saturday that Hamas declared its members foiled an attempt by Israeli forces to move within the Gaza Strip. Hamas claimed the soldiers retreated after they were targeted by mortar shells. Israeli forces, however, claimed the "incident never happened." Senior leadership in Israel had given the thumbs up for a ground invasion of the Gaza Strip, sources told FOX News, though it didn't mean such action was inevitable. A ground invasion could happen soon if international diplomacy fails to broker a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, who have been trading cross-border fire for the past week. As ground troops massed on the border Saturday, waiting for a signal to invade Gaza, the cease-fire efforts were gaining momentum. French President Nicolas Sarkozy is visiting the region next week, and President George W. Bush and U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon both spoke in favor of an internationally monitored truce. Israel launched its new round of airstrikes on Gaza in response to renewed missile attacks by Hamas after the two sides' six-month cease-fire ended last month. A ground invasion of the territory has looked increasingly likely, as Israel has been bringing artillery, armor and infantry to the border. Israel bombed a mosque it claimed was used to store weapons and destroyed homes of more than a dozen Hamas operatives Friday, but under international pressure, the government allowed hundreds of Palestinians with foreign passports to leave besieged Gaza. Exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said from Damascus on Friday that his militant group was prepared for an invasion and could abduct more soldiers if Israel attempts the incursion. "If you commit a foolish act by raiding Gaza, who knows, we may have a second or a third or a fourth Shalit," he said, according to Reuters. Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit was kidnapped by Hamas in a cross-border raid more than two years ago. Hamas, whose charter specifically calls for the destruction of the state of Israel, had ordered a "day of wrath" against Israel on Friday over the killing of a senior commander. In last 48 hours, the U.S. government has helped 27 Americans get out of Gaza, and has heard no reports of any Americans being injured during the assault, according to State Department spokesman Gordon Duguid. Evacuated Americans were taken by bus to Amman, Jordan, but more Americans are believed to be in Gaza. President Bush, in a radio address taped Friday, accused Hamas of an "act of terror" in its rocket attacks into Israel and suggested that no cease-fire would be acceptable without monitoring to halt the flow of weapons to terrorist groups. Israel launched the aerial campaign last Saturday in a bid to halt weeks of intensifying Palestinian rocket fire from Gaza. The offensive has dealt a heavy blow to Hamas, but failed to halt the rocket fire. New attacks Friday struck apartment buildings in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, though no serious injuries were reported. The United Nations estimated Friday that around 100 civilians have been killed in Gaza in the past week, around 25 percent of the 400 estimated killed in the bombing campaign. The Israeli military called at least some of the houses ahead of time to warn inhabitants of an impending attack. In some cases, it also fired a sound bomb to warn away civilians before flattening the homes with powerful missiles, Palestinians and Israeli defense officials said. Three Israeli civilians and one soldier have also died in the Hamas rocket attacks, which have reached deeper into Israel than ever before, bringing one-eighth of Israel's population of 7 million within rocket range. Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization by the United States and many other Western nations. From 2001 through May 2008, Hamas launched more than 3,000 Qassam rockets and 2,500 mortar attacks against Israeli targets.[/quote]
Hamas should open their headquarters up in New York instead of Palestine. Then maybe bombing the major cities in response to grenade attacks will be seen as barbaric...
Sounds like their organization is going up in smoke
They fell apart fast. Israel blew them out of proportion.
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