• Israel Thread [STOP MAKING NEW ONES]
    3,126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136344]No. It really is not. This is really not debatable. The Shahada has [B]nothing to do with martyrdom.[/B] The Shahada is simply saying, and believing, that there is one God, Allah, and Muhammad was his messanger. People twisting the Quran to justify terrorism doesn't make the Shahada have anything to do with Martyrdom. Nor does Christians twisting scripture to justify bombing abortion clinics mean that the "Our Father" prayer has anything to do with exterminating every non-christian in the world.[/QUOTE] I don't see how it still changes the point that they are taught straight religion over peace and full rights
*sigh* kids. All three of the religions contain very specific passages about what to do to non-believers. Wanna guess what all of them contain? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't involve giving them freshly baked cookies. All three religions are vicious and morally corrupt on paper. The trick? NOBODY ACTUALLY FOLLOWS THEIR HOLY SCRIPTURE. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, THEY ARE SELF CONTRADICTING PIECES OF PAPER. You can't "turn the other cheek" AND put all the villagers of an opposing village to death for not believing in god. This problem is exacerbated by shitty translations which strive to sound biblical and instead just wind up masking the pure crazy recorded on every page from the average reader. So it has nothing to do with whether or not Islam is a peaceful or warlike religion. It's a religion. And therefore it causes trouble. They are inherently flawed and are an excellent way to manipulate people.
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136353]Why do you find it so implausible that there exists a religion that would be considered evil by the prevailing moral standards here in the west? And I mean a religion as practiced today.[/QUOTE] Because I highly doubt any relgion teaches killing, rape or anything that isn't up to our expected moral standards.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136367]I don't see how it still changes the point that they are taught straight religion over peace and full rights[/QUOTE] I never said it did. What I said was that he said Shahada was "martrying yourself in the name of Allah" which is flatout wrong on every concievable level. Whether that reflects on his post as a whole and anything else he types is up to you.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136344]No. It really is not. This is really not debatable. The Shahada has [B]nothing to do with martyrdom.[/B] The Shahada is simply saying, and believing, that there is one God, Allah, and Muhammad was his messanger. People twisting the Quran to justify terrorism doesn't make the Shahada have anything to do with Martyrdom. Nor does Christians twisting scripture to justify bombing abortion clinics mean that the "Our Father" prayer has anything to do with exterminating every non-christian in the world.[/QUOTE] Yes, it really is. Shahada to the palestinians IS Islam, IS their religion. And their religion is martyrdom. Islam is inherently violent and warlike, but the palestinians take it to an extreme level even for Muslim extremists. Not extreme in a Burqa wearing, music banning kind of way, but like a death cult. The entirety of Gaza and the West bank are adorned with Martyrdom posters, children are taught in school and on T.V that martyrdom against the Jews is the highest and most noble of actions, and mothers like Umm Nidal raise children solely to send them off to die. Shahada means "declaration of faith". To the palestinians, martyrdom against the Jews is the highest declaration of faith one can ever make. Within the context in which it is used within the Gaza strip, Shahada means fighting against the Jews. Not necessarily suicide bombing, but fighting all the same.
snip because I didn't say it nearly as well as heatsketch
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136414]Yes, it really is. Shahada to the palestinians IS Islam, IS their religion. And their religion is martyrdom. Islam is inherently violent and warlike, but the palestinians take it to an extreme level even for Muslim extremists. Not extreme in a Burqa wearing, music banning kind of way, but like a death cult. The entirety of Gaza and the West bank are adorned with Martyrdom posters, children are taught in school and on T.V that martyrdom against the Jews is the highest and most noble of actions, and mothers like Umm Nidal raise children solely to send them off to die. Shahada means "declaration of faith". To the palestinians, martyrdom against the Jews is the highest declaration of faith one can ever make. Within the context in which it is used within the Gaza strip, Shahada means fighting against the Jews. Not necessarily suicide bombing, but fighting all the same.[/QUOTE] Islam is the religion, the Shahada is simply the declaration of belief in Islam. You seem to think that because some people twist Islam to justify terrorism it changes a very, very simple definition. Shahada does not mean fighting the Jews, Shahada is not a religion. Let me make this very clear, I'll even bold it for you. [B]Shahada is simply a declaration of faith. It is not a religion. It has nothing to do with martyrdom.[/B]
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136414]Yes, it really is. Shahada to the palestinians IS Islam, IS their religion. And their religion is martyrdom. Islam is inherently violent and warlike, but the palestinians take it to an extreme level even for Muslim extremists. Not extreme in a Burqa wearing, music banning kind of way, but like a death cult. The entirety of Gaza and the West bank are adorned with Martyrdom posters, children are taught in school and on T.V that martyrdom against the Jews is the highest and most noble of actions, and mothers like Umm Nidal raise children solely to send them off to die. Shahada means "declaration of faith". To the palestinians, martyrdom against the Jews is the highest declaration of faith one can ever make. Within the context in which it is used within the Gaza strip, Shahada means fighting against the Jews. Not necessarily suicide bombing, but fighting all the same.[/QUOTE] Great. Generalisations...
not liking these new buttons
[QUOTE=doggunn;13136379]Because I highly doubt any relgion teaches killing, rape or anything that isn't up to our expected moral standards.[/QUOTE] I guess no one here has heard of Muhammed's marriage to a nine year old girl, as told of in the Authenticated Sahi Bukhari and Sahi Muslim hadiths? And We wonder why Hamas cares so little about civilian casualties. They are merely following the prophet Muhammeds example (as any pious Muslim should). It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.” (Sahih Muslim 4322) The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside. (Sahih Muslim 4457)
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136436]It can still be construed to incorporate that value: [i]Muslims in the Arab world, who are less concerned about public relations, celebrate and revere suicide bombers, knowing that martyrdom in battle is glorified by their religion.[/i][/QUOTE] Awesome, I don't care about people who glorify people who die to take out religious enemies. What I care about is that he said "Shahada" means martyring yourself in the name of Allah. That's wrong. I don't really care what you think declaring yourself a Muslim means you incorporate into your life. But it [B]does not[/B] change a very simple definition.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13135207]Corrupt? I'm pretty sure they were crazy extremists before they were elected. Everyone knew what to expect when they cast their vote. So. We are back to this: A democratically elected government launches an attack on a neighboring country's civilian population centers with artillery. And now they are being attacked as a result and losing because they voted in a pack of gibbering psychopaths.[/QUOTE] I have reached for the agree rating so many times.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13136378]*sigh* kids. All three of the religions contain very specific passages about what to do to non-believers. Wanna guess what all of them contain? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't involve giving them freshly baked cookies. All three religions are vicious and morally corrupt on paper. The trick? NOBODY ACTUALLY FOLLOWS THEIR HOLY SCRIPTURE. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T, THEY ARE SELF CONTRADICTING PIECES OF PAPER. You can't "turn the other cheek" AND put all the villagers of an opposing village to death for not believing in god. This problem is exacerbated by shitty translations which strive to sound biblical and instead just wind up masking the pure crazy recorded on every page from the average reader. So it has nothing to do with whether or not Islam is a peaceful or warlike religion. It's a religion. And therefore it causes trouble. They are inherently flawed and are an excellent way to manipulate people.[/QUOTE] Which is why I just believe in God and not the bible.
[QUOTE=doggunn;13136445]Great. Generalisations...[/QUOTE] No, actually. Gaza is run by Hamas with an iron grip. Remember in June 2007, when Hamas was elected in Gaza but Fatah refused to give up power? There was much fighting, shooting of kneecaps, and tossing from tall buildings? Hamas cemented their control of Gaza. They fully control all media, education, public and social services, and infrastructure. EVERYTHING is controlled by Hamas. On top of that, they had 50 years of falsified history fed to them by Arafat and his PLO. More than half of Gazas population is under 18, and they are even more radicalized than their parents generation.
[QUOTE=Kimaru;13136485]Which is why I just believe in God and not the bible.[/QUOTE] You're a pretty bad Christian then. If you don't believe the Bible as the inspired or literal word of God, the jig is kind of up.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136439]Islam is the religion, the Shahada is simply the declaration of belief in Islam. You seem to think that because some people twist Islam to justify terrorism it changes a very, very simple definition. Shahada does not mean fighting the Jews, Shahada is not a religion. Let me make this very clear, I'll even bold it for you. [B]Shahada is simply a declaration of faith. It is not a religion. It has nothing to do with martyrdom.[/B][/QUOTE] I JUST explained to you how that works in the context of the palestinian territories. I guess Karskin is right to accuse you guys of being unable to read.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136495]You're a pretty bad Christian then. If you don't believe the Bible as the inspired or literal word of God, the jig is kind of up.[/QUOTE] I am not a Christian. Believing in a God doesn't mean you are all the sudden a Christian. It's a book written by a bunch of people that has been manipulated over the years by the church.
[QUOTE=Kimaru;13136507]I am not a Christian. Believing in a God doesn't mean you are all the sudden a Christian.[/QUOTE] Ah, so you are just a theist?
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136512]Ah, so you are just a theist?[/QUOTE] Yeah.
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136505]I JUST explained to you how that works in the context of the palestinian territories. I guess Karskin is right to accuse you guys of being unable to read.[/QUOTE] You didn't "Explain" anything. What you did was stitch a bunch of shitty generalizations together to justify the fact you cannot read a simple definition. I'm going to ask you a direct question here. What is so hard about reading a dictionary? Is it all the words? Do you need me to use simpler words? I could make this much, much simpler if you need me too.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136512]Ah, so you are just a theist?[/QUOTE] Hurr hurr, agnostic
[QUOTE=Kimaru;13136525]Yeah.[/QUOTE] Well then to each his own as long as it doesn't interfere with another's liberty. Sorry about the confusion.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136530]You didn't "Explain" anything. What you did was stitch a bunch of shitty generalizations together to justify the fact you cannot read a simple definition. I'm going to ask you a direct question here. What is so hard about reading a dictionary? Is it all the words? Do you need me to use simpler words? I could make this much, much simpler if you need me too.[/QUOTE] I am not talking about what Shahada means in Islam. I am talking about what Shahada means in the Hamas run Palestinian territories, in regards to how the people are brainwashed into caring about nothing more than killing Jews. You refuse to even address any of that, though.
There'll be another six day war and all the Arabs and Palestinians will go back into hiding.
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;13136534]Hurr hurr, agnostic[/QUOTE] You have no idea what agnostic means do you. It means that you don't claim to know for certain. Someone who doesn't believe in a god, but doesn't deny the possibility of on is still an atheist, just an agnostic atheist.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136547]You have no idea what agnostic means do you. It means that you don't claim to know for certain. Someone who doesn't believe in a god, but doesn't deny the possibility of on is still an atheist, just an agnostic atheist.[/QUOTE] Agnostic means more than your simplified definition. [quote]An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time. [/quote] It's like you know nothing about any sort of theism...
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136541]I am not talking about what Shahada means in Islam. I am talking about what Shahada means in the Hamas run Palestinian territories, in regards to how the people are brainwashed into caring about nothing more than killing Jews. You refuse to even address any of that, though.[/QUOTE] No. Let me bring you back to what you said, you obviously have forgotten. [quote] "What is more important, Peace and full rights, or Shahada (martyrdom in the name of Allah)"[/quote] This is simply not what Shahada means. And no, the definition of a very simple word doesn't change in Palestine. What does change is how the misinterpret the Quran to justify terrorism. That [B]does not[/B] change the definition of Shahada. Tell me if you need me to use simpler words.
I have to work tomorrow, so goodnight to all. I will be back to respond tomorrow, so long as this hasn't been buried too deeply in the thread
[QUOTE=angelangel;13136543]There'll be another six day war and all the Arabs and Palestinians will go back into hiding.[/QUOTE] The only country that *may* invade is Syria, and they're going to get slaughtered if they do, as they know.
[QUOTE=Kimaru;13136485]Which is why I just believe in God and not the bible.[/QUOTE] Aye, that is the way to go. I don't share that belief, but unlike religion and all that jazz, I have absolutely zero problem with it. The belief by itself causes no harm and certainly can make a lot of people feel better. It's once it becomes an organized religion that things like crusades, inquisitions, jihads, and all the other fun stuff start showing up.
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