[QUOTE=Chippays;13136574]No. Let me bring you back to what you said, you obviously have forgotten.
This is simply not what Shahada means. And no, the definition of a very simple word doesn't change in Palestine. What does change is how the misinterpret the Quran to justify terrorism. That [B]does not[/B] change the definition of Shahada. Tell me if you need me to use simpler words.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I forgot to explan in my original post that when I mentioned Shahada as martyrdom in the name of allah, I was speaking IN THE SAME CONTEXT THE PALESTINIAN ARABS DO.
Now that I have explained the context in which it is used, and let it be known that that is the context in which I was using it, do you care to make any sort of comment about Hamas actions and the level of brutal indoctrination in Gaza, or are you just going to keep deflecting from that?
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;13136569]Agnostic means more than your simplified definition.
It's like you know nothing about any sort of theism...[/QUOTE]
No, you do now know anything. An Atheist believes in no god, a theist believe is a god. Kind of like the prefixes mono and poly denote believe in one and many gods respectively.
Gnosticism deals specifically with claiming to know or not know something. Therefore a Christian or Muslim who believes in god, and claims that he is real, is a gnostic theist. Try looking up real definitions sometime.
NOW I'm going to sleep
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136609]NOW I'm going to sleep[/QUOTE]
As am I.
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13136604]I'm sorry, I forgot to explan in my original post that when I mentioned Shahada as martyrdom in the name of allah, I was speaking IN THE SAME CONTEXT THE PALESTINIAN ARABS DO.
Now that I have explained the context in which it is used, and let it be known that that is the context in which I was using it, do you care to make any sort of comment about Hamas actions and the level of brutal indoctrination in Gaza, or are you just going to keep deflecting from that?[/QUOTE]
[B]That does not change the definition of Shahada. That does not make the Shahada have anything to do with martyrdom.[/B]
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136605]No, you do now know anything. An Atheist believes in no god, a theist believe is a god. Kind of like the prefixes mono and poly denote believe in one and many gods respectively.
Gnosticism deals specifically with claiming to know or not know something. Therefore a Christian or Muslim who believes in god, and claims that he is real, is a gnostic theist. Try looking up real definitions sometime.[/QUOTE]
Try looking up for yourself. That definition is exactly what it means, agnostics are not specific to any religion, they do not have to be athiests. His comment clearly stated he at the present time has no strings attached to any beliefs of any religion, but still believes there is a god. To me, that sounds a hell of a lot like an agnostic.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136634][B]That does not change the definition of Shahada. That does not make the Shahada have anything to do with martyrdom.[/B][/QUOTE]
Except in the context with the Palestinians, it has everything to do with blowing yourself up. What you're saying is like saying jam isn't used for eating because it's definition is that it is mashed fruit.
Well, I'm not denying anything, but could someone actually bring up the school text book where this is supposedly being taught?
Oh and here karskin. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism[/url]
I prefer Curd.
You know, fruit curd, yummy.
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;13136649]Try looking up for yourself. That definition is exactly what it means, agnostics are not specific to any religion, they do not have to be athiests. His comment clearly stated he at the present time has no strings attached to any beliefs of any religion, but still believes there is a god. To me, that sounds a hell of a lot like an agnostic.[/QUOTE]
You're right, you can be an agnostic theist. He said he believe in a god, which defines him as a theist. Whether he claims to know for certain whether this god exists would add either gnostic or agnostic. I have looked it up, you apparently have not.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136669]Except in the context with the Palestinians, it has everything to do with blowing yourself up. What you're saying is like saying jam isn't used for eating because it's definition is that it is mashed fruit.[/QUOTE]
No. It really isn't Here let me simplify it for you.
Shahada means literally "To testify." The Shahada is simply a man believing with his whole heart, and saying that there is one God, Allah, and Muhammad was his messanger. This has nothing to do with martyrdom. It has nothing to do with Terrrorism.
Look, I don't give half a shit if you think Islam is the devil and Muhammad was the devils son and he's roasting in hell or whatever the hell. [B]It does not change a definition. This is very simple. [/B]
I hope this helps you understand.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136704]You're right, you can be an agnostic theist. He said he believe in a god, which defines him as a theist. Whether he claims to know for certain whether this god exists would add either gnostic or agnostic. I have looked it up, you apparently have not.[/QUOTE]
Gnostic has nothing to do with what he stated, apparently you haven't looked it up. How his case doesn't sound like an agnostic theist is beyond me.
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;13136682]Well, I'm not denying anything, but could someone actually bring up the school text book where this is supposedly being taught?
Oh and here karskin. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism[/url][/QUOTE]
THANKS FOR NOT READING YOUR OWN SOURCES AGAIN
[i]Agnostic theism, also known as Spiritual Agnosticism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. Per theism, an agnostic theist believes that the proposition at least one deity exists is true, [B]but, per agnosticism, believes that the existence of gods are unknown or inherently unknowable.[/B][/i]
THEREFORE HE DOES NOT CLAIM TO KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT A GOD EXISTS
Except he didn't say that at all, for all you know, he would claim that the god he believes in exists, which would make him a gnostic theist.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136715]No. It really isn't Here let me simplify it for you.
Shahada means literally "To testify." The Shahada is simply a man believing with his whole heart, and saying that there is one God, Allah, and Muhammad was his messanger. This has nothing to do with martyrdom. It has nothing to do with Terrrorism.
Look, I don't give half a shit if you think Islam is the devil and Muhammad was the devils son and he's roasting in hell or whatever the hell. [B]It does not change a definition. This is very simple. [/B]
I hope this helps you understand.[/QUOTE]
Ok, if you're going to be difficult, ignore the whole statement. Now please, what's wrong with the rest of what he said.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136744]Ok, if you're going to be difficult, ignore the whole statement. Now please, what's wrong with the rest of what he said.[/QUOTE]
Several things, but I can't be bothered to go through that. Which is why and I haven't and will continue to not address it. And no, I'm not being "difficult" I'm trying to explain what a word means. It really is a fairly simple word, and there really is no argument otherwise.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136715][B]It does not change a definition. This is very simple. [/B][/QUOTE]
No part of religion is a definition. It's always open to interpretation.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136727]THANKS FOR NOT READING YOUR OWN SOURCES AGAIN
[i]Agnostic theism, also known as Spiritual Agnosticism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. Per theism, an agnostic theist believes that the proposition at least one deity exists is true, [B]but, per agnosticism, believes that the existence of gods are unknown or inherently unknowable.[/B][/i]
THEREFORE HE DOES NOT CLAIM TO KNOW FOR CERTAIN THAT A GOD EXISTS
Except he didn't say that at all, for all you know, he would claim that the god he believes in exists, which would make him a gnostic theist.[/QUOTE]
The definition of a gnostic is completely different than just believing a god exists from what I've read thus far...
[quote]refers to a diverse, syncretistic religious movement consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect god, the demiurge, who is frequently identified with the Abrahamic God.
[/quote]
[quote]The notion of a remote, supreme monadic divinity - this figure is known under a variety of names, including 'Pleroma' and 'Bythos' (Greek, "deep");
[/quote]
[quote]The introduction of a distinct creator god, named demiurgos in the Platonist tradition.
[/quote]
???
[QUOTE=doggunn;13136755]No part of religion is a definition. It's always open to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
Alright. Feel free to tell me how attributing a word to saying "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger" is open to being interpreted as "Martyring yourself for Allah."
(It can't so maybe it would be best not too)
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136753]Several things, but I can't be bothered to go through that. Which is why and I haven't and will continue to not address it. And no, I'm not being "difficult" I'm trying to explain what a word means. It really is a fairly simple word, and there really is no argument otherwise.[/QUOTE]
So basically, your argument is that everything he said is wrong, and the only example you're giving is a misdefinition at the bottom of an almost 2000 words post. You "can't be bothered" isn't an argument.
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;13136756]The definition of a gnostic is completely different than just believing a god exists from what I've read thus far...
???[/QUOTE]
That's Gnosticism the religious movement, look into the definition of the word. It is the polar opposite of A[B]gnostic[/B] which means he doesn't know for certain, gnostic means he does know for certain (or at least claims to). Gnosticism and Agnosticism are completely separate from Theism and Atheism (again opposites).
I just don't like it when my Israeli friends make a Facebook group to mourn one dead soldier and encourage revenge and obliteration of the Palestinians while Palestine was removed as a location on the site. And I don't think Palestinians have time to make a Goddamn Facebook group because they are dyeing by the dozens. No matter how right Gunfox and Karskin are in my opinion I cant justify the actions of Israel in my head.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136776]So basically, your argument is that everything he said is wrong, and the only example you're giving is a misdefinition at the bottom of an almost 2000 words post. You "can't be bothered" isn't an argument.[/QUOTE]
Despite what you want, that's not my point. My argument is very clear, it was that he used the definition wrong. If you want to talk about his post, you're free too. But it would probably be best if you stopped attempting to guess what "my argument" is, you're not very good at it.
Also breaking news, heatsketch sent me some textbook references
[url]http://www.pmw.org.il/schoolbooks.html[/url]
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/839584.html[/url]
[url]http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Education.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part1.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136771]Alright. Feel free to tell me how attributing a word to saying "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger" is open to being interpreted as "Martyring yourself for Allah."
(It can't so maybe it would be best not too)[/QUOTE]
I'm not an Islamic Extremist.
I don't like any of this.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13136815]Also breaking news, heatsketch sent me some textbook references
[url]http://www.pmw.org.il/schoolbooks.html[/url]
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/839584.html[/url]
[url]http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Education.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part1.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Now instead of just posting those and being off with it. Point out the spot that chippay has been debating for the last hour.
I don't think anyone wants to read three huge pages this late at night just for one piece of information ^_^
[QUOTE=Chippays;13136810]Despite what you want, that's not my point. My argument is very clear, it was that he used the definition wrong. If you want to talk about his post, you're free too. But it would probably be best if you stopped attempting to guess what "my argument" is, you're not very good at it.[/QUOTE]
Then tell us instead of acting like a smug asshole
[QUOTE=person11;13136834]I don't like any of this.[/QUOTE]
Useful post.
Oh my god!
[url]http://www.pcdc.edu.ps/anti_Arab_israeli_textbooks.htm[/url]
Wait a second... It doesn't matter cause they're jewish.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.