[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13220683]Not to mention Israel keeps "accidentally" blowing up aid convoys when they ARE allowed in (i.e. during the ceasefires).[/QUOTE]
Only 1 UN CAR was blown up... idiot.
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13220683]C'mon guys, [I]Israel is the aggressor here.[/I] The IDF has already admitted that no missiles were fired into Israel during the ceasefire, so who broke the ceasefire? Israel did.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, no they did not. Most countries around the world accept that the HAMAS broke the ceasefire. Double idiot.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - TH89))[/highlight]
1. Yeah, [url=http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009181482839688.html]Just one little attack.[/url]
2. Uh, triple idiot? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c]No Hamas rockets were fired into Israel during the ceasefire.[/url]
EDIT: Slightly incorrect: There were a few rockets, but they killed no Israelis. The big barrages came after Israel killed five Hamas soldiers [I]inside the Gaza strip.[/I]
Meaning that Israel broke the ceasefire by attacking inside Gaza.
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13220737]1. Yeah, [url=http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009181482839688.html]Just one little attack.[/url]
2. Uh, triple idiot? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c]No Hamas rockets were fired into Israel during the ceasefire.[/url]
EDIT: Slightly incorrect: There were a few rockets, but they killed no Israelis. The big barrages came after Israel killed five Hamas soldiers [I]inside the Gaza strip.[/I]
Meaning that Israel broke the ceasefire by attacking inside Gaza.[/QUOTE]
They fired a few rockets, but they didn't break the ceasefire?
So if I shoot at you, but miss, I didn't try to attack you?
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13220737]1. Yeah, [url=http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009181482839688.html]Just one little attack.[/url][/QUOTE]
I still see one killed - and the UN reports that it is likely to be their fault.
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13220737]2. Uh, triple idiot? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c]No Hamas rockets were fired into Israel during the ceasefire.[/url]
[B]EDIT: Slightly incorrect: There were a few rockets, but they killed no Israelis. The big barrages came after Israel killed five Hamas soldiers [I]inside the Gaza strip.[/I][/B]
Meaning that Israel broke the ceasefire by attacking inside Gaza.[/QUOTE]
The video is incorrect, and you know it.
Look at the bold? Are you that much of an idiot? Just because it didn't kill anyone, doesn't mean that it's not an act of war...
[QUOTE=heatsketch;13214601]It is very much a religious conflict. In fact, the entire reason Hamas is attacking Israel is because of religion. Have you read their Charter? It doesn't sound like you have, or you would know this.
[url]http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm[/url]
"Hamas" is short for "The Covenant of the [b]Islamic[/b] Resistance Movement"
I'll give you a few quotes:
[i]"Praise be unto Allah, to whom we resort for help, and whose forgiveness, guidance and support we seek; Allah bless the Prophet and grant him salvation, his companions and supporters, and to those who carried out his message and adopted his laws - everlasting prayers and salvation as long as the earth and heaven will last. "[/i]
...doesn't sound very religious to me.... >_>
[i]"This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast [b]Arab and Islamic world[/b], until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised."[/i]
Notice the reference to the "vast Arab and Islamic world", and how the victory is "Allah's victory" and not the Palestinian peoples victory.
[i][b]The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man.[/b] It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.[/i]
[i]The Islamic Resistance Movement found itself at a time when Islam has disappeared from life. Thus rules shook, concepts were upset, values changed and evil people took control, oppression and darkness prevailed, cowards became like tigers: homelands were usurped, people were scattered and were caused to wander all over the world, the state of justice disappeared and the state of falsehood replaced it. Nothing remained in its right place. Thus, when Islam is absent from the arena, everything changes. From this state of affairs the incentives are drawn.[/i]
[i]The Islamic Resistance Movement is [b]one of the wings of Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine[/b]. Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a [b]universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times.[/b] It is characterised by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgement, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.[/i]
But of course, this is a [i]political[/i] conflict, and it has [i]nothing[/i] to do with religion.
Israel is not the main aggressor, Hamas is. Hamas was launching rockets into Israel throughout December, the entire time DARING them (literally, their spokemen were going on tv and DARING them) to respond. Now that Israel has, it is suddenly "evil". Where were all the people condemning Israel when Hamas was using ambulences n their operations
[url]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2249484/hamas_use_un_ambulance_to_smuggle_terrorists_in_gaza/[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAR_Iwq9-R0[/url]
Where were they when Hamas raided trucks bringing their people aid?
[url]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424932109&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull[/url]
[url]http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3504227,00.html[/url]
[url]http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2804[/url]
Where were they when hamas uses schools, mosques, and hospitals as bases and staging points and uses people as human shields?
[url]http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/terrorists-launch-missiles-at-israel.html[/url]
[url]http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=38440[/url]
[url]http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Hamas+war+against+Israel/Hamas+exploitation+of+civilians+as+human+shields+-+Photographic+evidence.htm[/url]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6162494.stm[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYtij4Q7sE[/url]
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhs9ihSmbU[/url]
They were silent.[/QUOTE]
This conflict did not start because of varied religious backgrounds. This isn't Jews against Muslim, it's oppressor against the oppressed. And, no I do not in any way support Hamas, but I do believe that Israel is the main aggressor. Why else would there be over 900 dead Palestinians 40 % of which were women and children, and the only casualties on the Israeli side were 13 where only 3 of them were civilians? I hate to repeat myself, but you seemed to totally ignore this in my previous post. Israel has more resources, a much larger and better military force. Yet they resolve to blasting civilians with white phosphor.
Also, the religious side of Hamas is only used to attract support from other Muslims. This conflict has its roots in the oppression of the native population.
[QUOTE=Taishu;13221079]This conflict did not start because of varied religious backgrounds. This isn't Jews against Muslim, it's oppressor against the oppressed. And, no I do not in any way support Hamas, but I do believe that Israel is the main aggressor. Why else would there be over 900 dead Palestinians 40 % of which were women and children, and the only casualties on the Israeli side were 13 where only 3 of them were civilians? I hate to repeat myself, but you seemed to totally ignore this in my previous post. Israel has more resources, a much larger and better military force. Yet they resolve to blasting civilians with white phosphor.
Also, the religious side of Hamas is only used to attract support from other Muslims. This conflict has its roots in the oppression of the native population.[/QUOTE]
You are the most ignorant person I have ever seen (aside from Rofl my Waff and Chippays). Did you even read that link I posted? This conflict started back in 1947-8, when Israel was given a country, and they had a very very small population. 8 other arab countries attacked them, and the Jews were expected the literally be wiped out in under six weeks. It was a war of annihilation. But the Jews fought back and won. No one expected it. The Jews didn't drive out the refugees, the arabs did. Read that damn article [url]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/The%20Big%20Arab%20Lie.htm[/url]
The main causes behind what the other countries are doing is a religious one. The very reason this conflict started way back then was a religious one. This isn't a war of Israel against Palestine because Israel is caging them in, because Egypt is the one caging them in. It's a war of Israel against the Islamic Middle-East.
[url]http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543548[/url]
Notice how it refer to everything as "Muslim" land. And that they have to get rid of disbelievers, which it states can be Jews, Christians, or pagans.
This is from an Islamic site. There is no bias here.
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13220737]1. Yeah, [url=http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009181482839688.html]Just one little attack.[/url]
2. Uh, triple idiot? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c]No Hamas rockets were fired into Israel during the ceasefire.[/url]
EDIT: Slightly incorrect: There were a few rockets, but they killed no Israelis. The big barrages came after Israel killed five Hamas soldiers [I]inside the Gaza strip.[/I]
Meaning that Israel broke the ceasefire by attacking inside Gaza.[/QUOTE]
So you obviously didn't watch the video. The Hamas fighters killed were trying to kidnap Israelis. Also they still fired rockets. Does this make you some kind of quintuple idiot now?
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[QUOTE=Karskin;13221297]You are the most ignorant person I have ever seen (aside from Rofl my Waff and Chippays). Did you even read that link I posted? This conflict started back in 1947-8, when Israel was given a country, and they had a very very small population. 8 other arab countries attacked them, and the Jews were expected the literally be wiped out in under six weeks. It was a war of annihilation. But the Jews fought back and won. No one expected it. The Jews didn't drive out the refugees, the arabs did. Read that damn article [url]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/The%20Big%20Arab%20Lie.htm[/url]
The main causes behind what the other countries are doing is a religious one. The very reason this conflict started way back then was a religious one. This isn't a war of Israel against Palestine because Israel is caging them in, because Egypt is the one caging them in. It's a war of Israel against the Islamic Middle-East.[/QUOTE]
That dude sadly doesn't seem neutral.
Nobody wants to hear on some dude whos site his supporting.
(But if I remember correctly, he makes some quite popular books, that's twisting with truth, lies, propaganda and history).
[QUOTE=Karskin;13221297]You are the most ignorant person I have ever seen (aside from Rofl my Waff and Chippays). Did you even read that link I posted? This conflict started back in 1947-8, when Israel was given a country, and they had a very very small population. 8 other arab countries attacked them, and the Jews were expected the literally be wiped out in under six weeks. It was a war of annihilation. But the Jews fought back and won. No one expected it. The Jews didn't drive out the refugees, the arabs did. Read that damn article [url]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/The%20Big%20Arab%20Lie.htm[/url]
The main causes behind what the other countries are doing is a religious one. The very reason this conflict started way back then was a religious one. This isn't a war of Israel against Palestine because Israel is caging them in, because Egypt is the one caging them in. It's a war of Israel against the Islamic Middle-East.[/QUOTE]
That article is hardly objective. In fact that entire site seems very subjective. The text under the title on the main page kind of gives it away. "A guide to the political left".. Right. And then a small ad for a petition against Islamo Facism. Oh wow. If it means to be ignorant to not believe in the crap written on that site, then I guess I'm ignorant. Also you're still ignoring the deaths of 380 Palestinian civilians , against the 3 Isrealis since the start of this conflict. I'd like your comment on that.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13221340]So you obviously didn't watch the video. The Hamas fighters killed were trying to kidnap Israelis. Also they still fired rockets. Does this make you some kind of quintuple idiot now?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - GunFox))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Farewell sweet Zion.
[QUOTE=Karskin;13221326][url]http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543548[/url]
Notice how it refer to everything as "Muslim" land. And that they have to get rid of disbelievers, which it states can be Jews, Christians, or pagans.
This is from an Islamic site. There is no bias here.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://jtf.org/[/url]
Notice how anyone connected to Islam or liberals is considered evil and that they're all anti-semites.
This is from a Jewish site. There is no bias here.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13216077]you see, chemical weapons are justifiable because[/QUOTE]
it isn't a chemical weapon for the same reason napalm isn't
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13225806]it isn't a chemical weapon for the same reason napalm isn't[/QUOTE]
So depleted Uranium rounds used on helpless woman and children is AWWRIGHT?
No.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13225806]it isn't a chemical weapon for the same reason napalm isn't[/QUOTE]
then call it incendiary bombs i don't give a shit all i know is that women and babbies are getting their ass flesh melted off by white phosphorous and that's reprehensible
WP is banned as a weapon anyway so israel's still being a bunch of shitheads
quassams aren't really dangerous anyway why does everyone think they're some huge deal
if it's the principle that "israel is being attacked" then israel threw principle out the window when they killed 1000 Palestinians and wounded 5,000
[QUOTE=Pekey_1;13218500]I think the main problem is that people only see in black and white.
Who cares which country you're from, or if you're a jew or not...
I mean, jewish children in Norway, are getting bullied by grown men because of shit happening down there in retard-land.
All this just because of... groups. social and religious groups and angry judgemental people
and then people start cheerleading the different sides, and they totally don't understand how unbelievable fucking stupid they are for doing so. It's like being a console fanboy, except about life and death. Most people doesn't even have a clue what they are talking about
Tl;Dr: People are stupid[/QUOTE]
So...the Israel situation is pretty much like the console wars?
WE'VE GOT TO TELL THE UN
[QUOTE=Karskin;13221297]You are the most ignorant person I have ever seen (aside from Rofl my Waff and Chippays).[/QUOTE]
It looks like little Karskin is mad again. Everyone who doesn't agree with your glorious zionist state is ignorant I guess.
Oh look at that, you're banned again for flaming. You probably shouldn't attempt to argue if you can't leave personal attacks out of it champ.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13226956]then call it incendiary bombs i don't give a shit all i know is that women and babbies are getting their ass flesh melted off by white phosphorous and that's reprehensible
WP is banned as a weapon anyway so israel's still being a bunch of shitheads[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and that is tons better than women and babies getting bits blown off or shrapnel from HE shells.
Napalm, incendiary grenades, WP shells, it's all just fire. Shitty way to go, but so is having limbs blown off or your small intestine filled with bits of metal.
In addition to being potentially more effective in many scenarios, WP is fucking scary as hell. If I were Israel I'd want to firmly establish to the civilian populace that I am WAY MORE FUCKING SCARY than Hamas could ever dream of.
The point of which being that in addition to the militants who are killed, you also gain the potential added benefit of the local population no longer being as willing to support the local militants due to the fact that Israel doesn't play nice anymore.
It's one thing to throw rocks at cops in the states where you know that even if you throw rocks, the chance of the police responding with lethal force is reasonably low. But it is a whole other thing to throw rocks when you know full well that the cops are going to open up with automatic weapons and grenade launchers on the crowd the minute they start throwing rocks. If I was in the crowd, I'd damn well stop an asshole trying to throw a rock even if I agreed with him.
Not that I necessarily agree with the tactic in this case, but I am interested to see how it plays out in the future.
Ultimately I think my preference from a PR standing, if I were Israel, would be to issue a public announcement across every channel and media type I could conjure up that, for every rocket fired, a day's worth of bombing against targets would commence in retaliation. Starting with the source of the rocket. It would be very clear and very calculated and completely without remorse.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13228136]Yeah, and that is tons better than women and babies getting bits blown off or shrapnel from HE shells.
Napalm, incendiary grenades, WP shells, it's all just fire. Shitty way to go, but so is having limbs blown off or your small intestine filled with bits of metal.
In addition to being potentially more effective in many scenarios, WP is fucking scary as hell. If I were Israel I'd want to firmly establish to the civilian populace that I am WAY MORE FUCKING SCARY than Hamas could ever dream of.
The point of which being that in addition to the militants who are killed, you also gain the potential added benefit of the local population no longer being as willing to support the local militants due to the fact that Israel doesn't play nice anymore.
It's one thing to throw rocks at cops in the states where you know that even if you throw rocks, the chance of the police responding with lethal force is reasonably low. But it is a whole other thing to throw rocks when you know full well that the cops are going to open up with automatic weapons and grenade launchers on the crowd the minute they start throwing rocks. If I was in the crowd, I'd damn well stop an asshole trying to throw a rock even if I agreed with him.
Not that I necessarily agree with the tactic in this case, but I am interested to see how it plays out in the future.
Ultimately I think my preference from a PR standing, if I were Israel, would be to issue a public announcement across every channel and media type I could conjure up that, for every rocket fired, a day's worth of bombing against targets would commence in retaliation. Starting with the source of the rocket. It would be very clear and very calculated and completely without remorse.[/QUOTE]
er but there's widespread chemical burns in Palestinian hospitals and Israel used airburst WP even on windy/less than ideal conditions. Some speculate Israel is using Gaza to test experimental weapons (some tungsten microshrapnel bomb thing dropped by UAVs). And it isn't just "fire", it's burning discs that don't stop burning until they run out of fuel. If they land on you, they will literally melt your skin and Israel is airbursting this shit in populated civilian centers. Regardless what Israel says (they lie about this stuff anyway) WP is killing people and burning shit. Who the fuck uses WP in a dense city for "smoke screens" anyway. Fuck the IDF and I hope Israel is brought more justice than simple UN condemnations.
It's a crime regardless how you cut it and Israel should pay for this senselessly disproportionate slaughter of innocents. There's been reports of Israelis actually telling civilians to stay in their homes when they take the house over as sniper/spotter posts... guess Israel can't condemn Hamas for using human shields anymore.
Bonus points to whoever finds the article about Israel contesting the "negativity" of using human shields, I know it exists but I don't want to look for it.
Edit: I found the article about Israel using human shields: [url]http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/62959/amnesty-international-israel-using-palestinians-as-human-shields.html[/url] (might not be *the* article but the original source is Amnesty International so who gives a shit)
Edit again: Found the article about Israel wanting human shields: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm[/url] It's old but it just goes to show you how honest the IDF is.
Found.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm[/url]
Also, to contest the "Hamas broke the ceasefire" thing: Yes, come rockets were fired, but about 3-5 per month during the ceasefire, as opposed to 50-60 during months when the ceasefire was not in effect (as seen in the video I posted). My point is that one can write off a few rockets as the work of individuals. Israel, however, cannot avoid taking the blame for any action by the IDF (such as attacking inside Gaza). To be brief: Israel is in full control of its armed forces. Hamas is not.
fuck this shit every time I take a cursory glance at world media I see more articles about Israel's crimes against humanity
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm[/url]
why does the US support this shit
Hell, Hamas doesn't even have an established military.
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13228443]Hell, Hamas doesn't even have an established military.[/QUOTE]
and quassams are just glorified bottle rockets
they're literally like those big plastic firework rockets that leave behind the little plastic fins when they explode only they're big and metal
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228417]fuck this shit every time I take a cursory glance at world media I see more articles about Israel's crimes against humanity
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm[/url]
why does the US support this shit[/QUOTE]To be fair, it's alleged, not proven.
However, it IS likely...[img]http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-doh.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228462]and quassams are just glorified bottle rockets
they're literally like those big plastic firework rockets that leave behind the little plastic fins when they explode only they're big and metal[/QUOTE]Like I said, zero Israeli deaths due to rocket fire during the ceasefire.
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13228464]To be fair, it's alleged, not proven.
However, it IS likely...[img]http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-doh.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
guess what it isn't proven because the IDF won't allow the media into Gaza maybe this has something to do with why
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13228469]Like I said, zero Israeli deaths due to rocket fire during the ceasefire.[/QUOTE]
I mean shit they don't even hardly hurt the street they explode on
gg israel, 1000 dead. nice job.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228417]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm[/url][/QUOTE]
I hope that isn't true.
I mean, if that is seriously true and they are doing it intentionally I hope the combatants doing the shooting are burned alive by molotovs or something.
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