• Israel Thread [STOP MAKING NEW ONES]
    3,126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;13228664]I hope that isn't true. I mean, if that is seriously true and they are doing it intentionally I hope the combatants doing the shooting are burned alive by molotovs or something.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't doubt it, soldiers aren't robots, they have their own intentions and motives. Ethnic tensions can be felt everywhere over in Gaza/Israel
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;13228664]I hope that isn't true. I mean, if that is seriously true and they are doing it intentionally I hope the combatants doing the shooting are burned alive by molotovs or something.[/QUOTE] Yep, fake news is the rage on BBC.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13226956]WP is banned as a weapon anyway so israel's still being a bunch of shitheads[/QUOTE] It's use is [i]voluntarily regulated.[/i] Unless you're proposing all nations on earth be forced to treat each protocol of the geneva convention as law...well, no, even then it wouldn't mean anything. [QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228493]I mean shit they don't even hardly hurt the street they explode on[/QUOTE] A fragmentation grenade also doesn't do that much damage to the surrounding area, that doesn't mean it won't kill your ass if you're within the blast radius.
I don't[img]http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-sg.gif[/img] like Israel
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13228717]It's use is [i]voluntarily regulated.[/i] Unless you're proposing all nations on earth be forced to treat each protocol of the geneva convention as law...well, no, even then it wouldn't mean anything. A fragmentation grenade also doesn't do that much damage to the surrounding area, that doesn't mean it won't kill your ass if you're within the blast radius.[/QUOTE] yeah that justifies killing 1,000 and wounding 4,000 I guess Israel is in the right after all WP is still diabolical and should not be used as a weapon doesn't matter about the legal status, it's typically jackassish to respond to really abhorrent things with "well it isn't AGAINST the rules so...!" (referring to Israel here, not you)
I fail to see how you can take the moral high road when you're supporting a side guilty of equally amoral tactics. WP is just another means to an end. You're just getting pissed at who's winning.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13228835]I fail to see how you can take the moral high road when you're supporting a side guilty of equally amoral tactics. WP is just another means to an end. You're just getting pissed at who's winning.[/QUOTE] 1. all war is immoral 2. what means to an end does WP bring, unless you mean a real pissed off Gaza and thousands of chemical-burned civilians 3. rightfully so but looking back on it Georgia was pulling some stupid shit in August and they (Georgia) weren't the ones winning
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13228835]I fail to see how you can take the moral high road when you're supporting a side guilty of equally amoral tactics. WP is just another means to an end. You're just getting pissed at who's winning.[/QUOTE] My god has bigger tanks that yours.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228893]1. all war is immoral 2. what means to an end does WP bring, unless you mean a real pissed off Gaza and thousands of chemical-burned civilians 3. rightfully so but looking back on it Georgia was pulling some stupid shit in August and they (Georgia) weren't the ones winning[/QUOTE] 1. Given "morality" is a nebulous concept, no. Anything can be immoral if you want it to be, depends on what your morals are. 2. It kills people. I think I've covered this before. The current IDF strategy is to kill as many people as possible, which is facilitated by the lack of any third party involvement (that would make more flexible, dramatic strategies viable.) It's their way to achieve victory. 3. it's hard to tell if you're conceding that you have no moral position making a snippy remark or both when you type like you're having a seizure
BU-b-b-b the Jewish and Muslim god are the same god.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13229381]1. Given "morality" is a nebulous concept, no. Anything can be immoral if you want it to be, depends on what your morals are. 2. It kills people. I think I've covered this before. The current IDF strategy is to kill as many people as possible, which is facilitated by the lack of any third party involvement (that would make more flexible, dramatic strategies viable.) It's their way to achieve victory. 3. it's hard to tell if you're conceding that you have no moral position making a snippy remark or both when you type like you're having a seizure[/QUOTE] it's just that I happen to have a moral position that doesn't involve killing ridiculous amounts of civiactually just fuck it not gonna even start this childlike bullshit with you, you always end up being the worst apologist who rationalizes the worst things but it's comforting to know that thanks to moral relativism these thousands of civilian casualties are actually tolerable when it means poor little Israeli schoolgirls won't have to pee their pants when a bottle rocket comes flying in from Gaza, and Israel's negligence towards civilian casualties actually isn't that bad considering it's for peace in the middle east, because the best way to get peace is to fucking kill and scare your way to it right WP? well it might cause horrific, painful chemical burns and should under no circumstances be used in a city (especially when airbursted) because that shit is for inhuman careless military machines (see: IDF), but it isn't illegal so it's okay :) thankfully poster Xenocidebot is here to make us all feel a little bit better about Israel's atrocities in the middle east!
He is a Nihilist I think Ryan, so like I said earlier you will just have to agree to disagree on whether empathy should be factored into logic or not.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;13229844]He is a Nihilist I think Ryan, so like I said earlier you will just have to agree to disagree on whether empathy should be factored into logic or not.[/QUOTE] Not applying empathy in logic makes you sound like a drone and sightly psychotic in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Fred;13229973]Not applying empathy in logic makes you sound like a drone and sightly psychotic in my opinion.[/QUOTE] I agree, and you are right it actually a sign of some sociopathic and psychotic disorders.
[QUOTE=Fred;13229973]Not applying empathy in logic makes you sound like a drone and sightly psychotic in my opinion.[/QUOTE] logically palestinians are worth 1/100th of an israeli so this onslaught is in fact proportionate, no worries! [img]http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-smug.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Insanity;13192373]I hate you isreal for invading a country that's hellbent on destroying your nation and population.[/QUOTE] You know, until this conflict I never could really fit any situation or collective thought to the line, "The world will end in thunderous applause." But thanks to what everyone has to say about their banner waving of hamas and the arab nations Ive been able to apply it. (waging war for no other reason but to kill jews, AS STATED BY LIKE 3 DAMN ARAB COUNTRIES THEMSELVES!) How did you people get so fackwards bassed that you couldnt even tell right from wrong WHEN IT WAS PRETTY FUCKING IN YOUR FACE OBVIOUS? Are we this stupid? Let me simplify it. - Palestine elects hamas, their one and only pollicy of "Killing jews." - Hamas brainwashes arab youth. - Hamas launches rockets at Israel. - Israel gets pissed and goes "Enough is enough!", they move to stop Hamas from killing their people. (The IDF takes precautions to ensure the livelyhood of civilians. Something tells me they arnt out to fucking kill innocent people. It's rather bad PR.) - World reacts with support for Hamas. Wait... What? Why would the world support Hamas? The obvious evildoers in this situation, they started the freaking conflict. Why would they support them? This conflict is about Islam. Without it there would be no conflict because there would be no religious reason to be killing jews. Every rose has its thorns. There is no grand conspiracy about this situation. Israel is not the wrong doer here, they do not treat muslims and enemies as they treat them. They have every damn right to prevent themselves from being exterminated. (The written and spoken goal of Hamas. Supported by Israels neighbors.)
And I suppose killing hundreds of civilians and bombing UN schools and convoys are part of this whole "self defense" thing? Oh, and using human shields too. Wait- I thought that was what terrorists did.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228301]er but there's widespread chemical burns in Palestinian hospitals and Israel used airburst WP even on windy/less than ideal conditions. Some speculate Israel is using Gaza to test experimental weapons (some tungsten microshrapnel bomb thing dropped by UAVs). And it isn't just "fire", it's burning discs that don't stop burning until they run out of fuel. If they land on you, they will literally melt your skin and Israel is airbursting this shit in populated civilian centers. Regardless what Israel says (they lie about this stuff anyway) WP is killing people and burning shit. Who the fuck uses WP in a dense city for "smoke screens" anyway. Fuck the IDF and I hope Israel is brought more justice than simple UN condemnations. [/QUOTE] Oh I don't think they are using them for smoke screens. I think they are aiming for people. My point is that burns and shrapnel aren't really that different. They are both fucked up and horrible. Fire that doesn't go out isn't anything new on the battlefield. This is nothing compared to napalm. The individual disks may be harder to put out, but napalm would obliterate the region quite effectively. I wouldn't doubt that some new weapons may be on the field, but a tungsten microshrapnel bomb? Awfully fancy name for a frag grenade. I must admit I'm mildly curious why they are using WP shells. The discs don't really seem designed to hit people too well. You can watch the explosions, they don't seem to send a lot of discs out. Which sorta makes sense seeing as the shells are US made and are designed to create smoke screens or, in an offensive capacity, designed to incite panic and literally smoke targets out of buildings or entrenched locations. Moreover, in urban areas if you want to KILL targets with fire based weaponry, an air burst isn't that effective. You want the shell to hit the ground and explode violently in a spherical fashion sending fire in through windows. Rooftops will most likely resist the fire for long enough. So why they use them is somewhat of a mystery to me.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13231741]So why they use them is somewhat of a mystery to me.[/QUOTE] I'm sure it accents their men on the ground nicely, presuming they know where everyone is a lot of flaming shit falling in an area probably keeps people out of said area, allowing them to keep them confined. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNN32Ejqdw[/media] A lot of videos make it look like it's being used for temporary area denial. [QUOTE=SeamanStains;13229844]He is a Nihilist I think Ryan, so like I said earlier you will just have to agree to disagree on whether empathy should be factored into logic or not.[/QUOTE] Says wikipedia: "Empathy is the 'capacity' to share and understand another's 'state of mind' or emotion." "Empathy does not necessarily imply compassion...because this capacity can be present in context of compassionate or cruel behavior." Says MW: "1: the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it" So when I rationalized the strategies of both sides from their perspective, I was doing what, exactly, that doesn't qualify as empathizing? Problem is, to you, empathy is compassion. You don't know what the word means. So I could go on a tangent and explain to you why you're getting empathy mixed up with sympathy and that what I really meant was that pointless compassion and that thing we call a "conscience" aren't relevant to discussions on your average armed conflict...but at the same time, it's easier just to tell you that your brand of "empathy" has no bearing on the situation, sort of how one's religion doesn't. "Logic" is evidence leading to a conclusion. Sorry, you have no evidence of your version of "empathy" getting anything done here, neither does anyone else, hence the search for "Peace in the Middle East" being a damn long one. Mine, on the other hand, rationalizes the situation, but I rather like you dismissing that in favor of implying I'm a psychopath (and now a Nihilist! Your crystal ball is not very accurate), so let's go with that. Nothing like a little ad hominem to brighten up one's day. [QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13229550]it's just that I happen to have a moral position that doesn't involve killing ridiculous amounts of civiactually just fuck it not gonna even start this childlike bullshit with you, you always end up being the worst apologist who rationalizes the worst things[/QUOTE] Can I stop you right there? I'm not apologizing for anyone's behavior, I'm understanding both sides' tactics. This doesn't mean I'm rooting for Israel, this doesn't mean I think lighting people on fire is acceptable, this means I understand the IDF's current mentality and am fully aware of where they're going with this, and agree with the tactics from that standpoint. They are effective- slow, but proven. I'm not going to suddenly deny that because they might be morally questionable, who the fuck cares about an outsider's morals right now? Not anyone over there, because we aren't involved- there is no active third party to give that meaning, so bringing it into a conversation is pointless. What I have a problem with is people like you dismissing Hamas's rocket strikes as insignificant "bottle rockets" when you know damn well if they had the capacity to kill as many people as the Israelis they would be doing so right now. Not to mention your "bottle rockets" are still capable of killing people quite well- shall I start referring to WP as harmless "sparklers"? You're the apologist, rooting for the underdog entirely because he's the underdog, and oh don't worry about the fact that we're actually prompting attacks on our civies or firing rockets into Israel for laughs we're the losing side can't you see we deserve special treatment and the right to do whatever we feel like. Quit disregarding the tactics of both sides here and you'll be taken seriously. As is, it seems like your "morals" involve doing whatever you feel like if you're at a disadvantage. I'm fine with you disregarding morals as well but then admit you are, instead of pretending you have some and acting like they're relevant (and then only applying them to one side's actions.)
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13228417]fuck this shit every time I take a cursory glance at world media I see more articles about Israel's crimes against humanity [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm[/url] why does the US support this shit[/QUOTE] Can't sell weapons to them if you don't support them.
[QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]You know, until this conflict I never could really fit any situation or collective thought to the line, "The world will end in thunderous applause." But thanks to what everyone has to say about their banner waving of hamas and the arab nations Ive been able to apply it. (waging war for no other reason but to kill jews, AS STATED BY LIKE 3 DAMN ARAB COUNTRIES THEMSELVES!)[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure they want to liberate Palestine as well... [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]How did you people get so fackwards bassed that you couldnt even tell right from wrong WHEN IT WAS PRETTY FUCKING IN YOUR FACE OBVIOUS?[/QUOTE] Depends on how you define right and wrong. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]Are we this stupid?[/QUOTE] If being stupid means being against the brutal methods applied by Israel, then yes, I am stupid [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]Let me simplify it.[/QUOTE] Good [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]- Palestine elects hamas, their one and only pollicy of "Killing jews."[/QUOTE] ...And to liberate Palestine. I think that's somewhat more important for the majority of Palestinians. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]- Hamas brainwashes arab youth.[/QUOTE] I don't think you need brainwash when the enemy is firing white phosphor at civilians [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]- Hamas launches rockets at Israel.[/QUOTE] Note how I'm not supporting Hamas, or their violent methods. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]- Israel gets pissed and goes "Enough is enough!", they move to stop Hamas from killing their people. (The IDF takes precautions to ensure the livelyhood of civilians. Something tells me they arnt out to fucking kill innocent people. It's rather bad PR.)[/QUOTE] .... 3 Israeli civilians dead versus over 380 Palestinian civilians dead. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]- World reacts with support for Hamas.[/QUOTE] Okay, you need to define the world, because I believe that most people would just like to see an end to the violence, and currently Israel is the main aggressor. Since most people feel sympathy for the innocent civilians, and since Israel is slaughtering them, naturally there's going to be a resentment towards Israel. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]Wait... What? Why would the world support Hamas? The obvious evildoers in this situation, they started the freaking conflict. Why would they support them?[/QUOTE] If we have to go back and look at who started this, it was actually Israel that settled on Palestinian land without permission from the Palestinians themselves. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]This conflict is about Islam. Without it there would be no conflict because there would be no religious reason to be killing jews. Every rose has its thorns.[/QUOTE] No it is not, it is about politics and oppression. Religion has only been used as a tool for the Hamas to recruit extremists. [QUOTE=Mexinugget03;13231057]There is no grand conspiracy about this situation. Israel is not the wrong doer here, they do not treat muslims and enemies as they treat them. They have every damn right to prevent themselves from being exterminated. (The written and spoken goal of Hamas. Supported by Israels neighbors.)[/QUOTE] Nope, there's no grand conspiracy, but Israel is, however, very much the wrong doer here. Prevention from being exterminated doesn't include bombing civilians.
Hamas deserved it. I mean, they shoot A LOT of rockets on Israel civilians, just because "they are jew and don't deserve to exist". It's like asking for it. Go, Israel, and kick some terrorists' ass! Also, Israel is just trying to hit terrorists. If Hamas cowards stay into schools or cities full of civilians, they are cowards.
[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;13234162]If Hamas cowards stay into schools or cities full of civilians, they are cowards.[/QUOTE] Yes, I guess they could go and swim in the sea instead of being in the city.
i say BOMB MORE BROWN PEOPLE. IN A SCHOOL? NO PROBLEM WE'LL BOMB THE SHIT OUT OF IT LETS FUCK THOSE KIDDIES UP THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE IN THERE NO PLACE IS SACRED, CHURCHES AND MOSQUES LETS NUKE EM WHATEVER IT TAKES TO BOMB MORE BROWN PEOPLE 600 CHILDREN DEAD NOT ENOUGH LETS GO FOR 6,000 6,000 LESS BROWN PEOPLE TO TAKE OUR JOBS AND OUR WOMEN
firerain knows the score
hm yes A JUSTIFIED RESPONSE. YOU FIRIN' ROCKET AT ME HERE LET ME BLOWN UP A SCHOOL AND MAYBE THE UN HEADQUARTERS THAT WILL SHOW THEM! DEFENSE WE MUST DEFEND AGAINST THE BROWN PEOPLE [img]http://i42.tinypic.com/34hgcbr.png[/img]
Firerain has probably made the most insightful post in this entire cacaphony of a thread which is terrifying beyond mortal comprehension
Fuck firerain?
[QUOTE=Firerain;13234455]hm yes A JUSTIFIED RESPONSE. YOU FIRIN' ROCKET AT ME HERE LET ME BLOWN UP A SCHOOL AND MAYBE THE UN HEADQUARTERS THAT WILL SHOW THEM! DEFENSE WE MUST DEFEND AGAINST THE BROWN PEOPLE [img]http://i42.tinypic.com/34hgcbr.png[/img][/QUOTE] example of a good post
[QUOTE=can man;13234464]Fuck firerain?[/QUOTE] example of a bad post
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