• Israel Thread [STOP MAKING NEW ONES]
    3,126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13242248]Such as? I've heard it as "We didn't know it was UN, so we had a tank blow the fuck out of it." In fact, Israel just threatened to fire on a Greek Mercy Ship carrying humanitarian aid, and forced it to turn back.[/QUOTE] Do I have to link you to the videos of the UN vehicles carrying HAMAS militans?
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13242248]Such as? I've heard it as "We didn't know it was UN, so we had a tank blow the fuck out of it." In fact, Israel just threatened to fire on a Greek Mercy Ship carrying humanitarian aid, and forced it to turn back.[/QUOTE] Yeah no shit. An unarmed ship wants to float on into a war zone and hand out supplies? I'd keep them the fuck out too. This isn't even taking into consideration the fact that they could very well be supplying the very enemy they are fighting if not only with food but potentially arms.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13242296]Yeah no shit. An unarmed ship wants to float on into a war zone and hand out supplies? I'd keep them the fuck out too. This isn't even taking into consideration the fact that they could very well be supplying the very enemy they are fighting if not only with food but potentially arms.[/QUOTE] woopsies [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009116089728759.html[/url] it's okay though that hospital was harboring terrorists; basically israel can just blow up whatever the fuck it wants so long as some Hamas dudes (like policemen and aid workers) are running around there. Hamas isn't just a militant group, they do a lot of civil shit in Gaza. Israel is making things up, and I'd not be surprised if the Israeli government literally does not value Palestinian lives as much as Israeli lives. [quote]Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, justified shelling the UN headquarters claiming armed Palestinians within it had fired at Israeli troops first. "It is absolutely true that we were attacked from that place … but the consequences were very sad and I apologise for it," he said. "There were no militants in our compound and... [the Israelis] are changing their story saying militants were 'in the vicinity'" Christopher Gunness, Unrwa spokesman However, Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for Unrwa, robustly denied that Palestinian fighters were among refugees sheltering there. "At no stage during the fighting today did any Israeli official pick up the phone and tell us there were militants in our compound. "We always take action against militants ... there were no militants in our compound and now they [the Israelis] are changing their story, saying militants were 'in the vicinity'," he said.[/quote] Nevermind that though, back to your boat argument: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm[/url] How can you condone this bullfuck from Israel? It's like condoning Israel when they blew up the smuggling tunnels because they were used to smuggle weapons. Too bad the media left out the fact that those tunnels were absolutely vital to Gaza's well-being because they brought in desperately needed food, fuel, and medical supplies. Targeting civilian infrastructure because it "might" be able to help the enemy is a pretty shitty tactic. And what about in Georgia/Ossetia, when NATO cargo ships brought aid to S. Ossetia, was it not a war zone? Is it justifiable then because it was the US doing it? I'm sorry but you're going to have to rationalize your beliefs a lot better, because it's really terrible to support strongarming aid agencies for "questionable intents" considering Gaza is literally starving for food and medicine.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242380]How can you condone this bullfuck from Israel? It's like condoning Israel when they blew up the smuggling tunnels because they were used to smuggle weapons. Too bad the media left out the fact that those tunnels were absolutely vital to Gaza's well-being because they brought in desperately needed food, fuel, and medical supplies. Targeting civilian infrastructure because it "might" be able to help the enemy is a pretty shitty tactic.[/QUOTE] you know if you dip food in liqiud oxygen (which is commonly used in rockets) it burns extremely well,just something for you to thnik about
[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;13242442]you know if you dip food in liqiud oxygen (which is commonly used in rockets) it burns extremely well,just something for you to thnik about[/QUOTE] they could burn some fritos like candles too just like in survivorman
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242260]sure [url]http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-civilians-endangered-military-tactics-both-sides-20090108[/url] it's a lot different than firing a rocket then running the fuck away too; why is it unfair that Hamas fighters shouldn't fire on the move? The whole damn place is a city, you aren't using human shields for firing and moving around. Is Hamas supposed to fire a rocket and then sit there and wait for incoming artillery? That's the argument, atleast, I mean that Hamas uses human shields by firing-then-moving. They really aren't. Israel, however, tells civilians to stay in their homes as they climb to the rooftops to use as forward observation/sniper posts, knowing Hamas would think twice about firing at the house. This isn't the first time Israel's been hypocritical about human shields either: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm[/url] Not to mention the famous picture of the Palestinian child tied to the hood of an Israeli humvee. Israel's human rights abuses against Palestinians are very well-documented so I don't believe any of the bullshit the IDF puts out about the "evils of Hamas" for using human shields. There's even reports (first-hand reports from Gazans apparently) of Israelis rounding up Palestinians and then calling in airstrikes in the place they put them. There's clearly a lot of cultural tension going on in this war, especially when you've got the BBC saying Israelis are shooting unarmed civilians carrying white flags in the back as they run away. It's getting harder and harder to be apologist to Israel's actions as this war goes on and so much shit hits the media. Experimental weapons, UN buildings being blown up, Israel having to come up with 3 excuses for the same travesty, it just goes on.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the links. Interesting reads, but I don't get the feeling they are keeping them there as human shields. Hamas largely cares little for the lives of its citizens by all accounts. And in one on one battles, Israeli troops are going to have no trouble obliterating Hamas fighters. It doesn't make any sense to keep them there as human shields. So it brings up the question of the validity of the reports. I don't doubt that Israelis are taking up sniper posts in homes. It's really a pretty mundane tactic as far as conflict goes, what I do doubt is that they are somehow keeping people as human shields or possibly even keeping people at all. "Forcing people to stay on the first floor" can mean several things. It can mean forced imprisonment, but frankly why waste energy on keeping hostages. I'd much rather have my troops busy looking OUT than looking IN. I feel the more likely candidate is that it means the family is forced to stay out of the second floor and live on the first floor. Not forced to stay in the home entirely. There is also the matter of possibly keeping them in the home for tactical purposes. A sniper lives and dies by his ability to conceal his location from the enemy. So you take a house and let the family run off and blab to everyone where you are, it is a fast way to get yourself killed. In which case it still isn't that bad because that means the sniper is relying on stealth and therefore will probably be gone in a day or so ANYWAYS. Furthermore using a human shield to go into a building first and getting a local to negotiate with an entrenched enemy are two very different things. If you can prevent an all out gun battle from occuring there is a much better chance of preventing civilian casualties. If they didn't care about civilians, then they would toss frag grenades in the windows, blow open a wall with high explosives, and slaughter the gunmen wholesale. Negotiation generally only occurs when there are hostages from your faction or innocents in the area (assuming you are the more powerful force).
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242489]they could burn some fritos like candles too just like in survivorman[/QUOTE] also you say medical supplies well if they know basic chemistry they could make explosives and rocket fuel with them (and fill rockets with syringes full of poisons)
I'm actually betting myself that every day I will find a new news article on BBC/Al Jazeera about Israel that will ruin my day
[QUOTE=GunFox;13242510]Thanks for the links. Interesting reads, but I don't get the feeling they are keeping them there as human shields. Hamas largely cares little for the lives of its citizens by all accounts. And in one on one battles, Israeli troops are going to have no trouble obliterating Hamas fighters. It doesn't make any sense to keep them there as human shields. So it brings up the question of the validity of the reports. I don't doubt that Israelis are taking up sniper posts in homes. It's really a pretty mundane tactic as far as conflict goes, what I do doubt is that they are somehow keeping people as human shields or possibly even keeping people at all. "Forcing people to stay on the first floor" can mean several things. It can mean forced imprisonment, but frankly why waste energy on keeping hostages. I'd much rather have my troops busy looking OUT than looking IN. I feel the more likely candidate is that it means the family is forced to stay out of the second floor and live on the first floor. Not forced to stay in the home entirely. There is also the matter of possibly keeping them in the home for tactical purposes. A sniper lives and dies by his ability to conceal his location from the enemy. So you take a house and let the family run off and blab to everyone where you are, it is a fast way to get yourself killed. In which case it still isn't that bad because that means the sniper is relying on stealth and therefore will probably be gone in a day or so ANYWAYS. Furthermore using a human shield to go into a building first and getting a local to negotiate with an entrenched enemy are two very different things. If you can prevent an all out gun battle from occuring there is a much better chance of preventing civilian casualties. If they didn't care about civilians, then they would toss frag grenades in the windows, blow open a wall with high explosives, and slaughter the gunmen wholesale. Negotiation generally only occurs when there are hostages from your faction or innocents in the area (assuming you are the more powerful force).[/QUOTE] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm[/url] it just keeps coming Sooner or later you gotta stop being an Israeli apologist after all these reports. Regardless what the government says, there are Zionists in the Israeli military that openly hate Palestinians and putting them in Gaza spells trouble for civilians, thanks to all this cultural tension.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242380] And what about in Georgia/Ossetia, when NATO cargo ships brought aid to S. Ossetia, was it not a war zone? Is it justifiable then because it was the US doing it? I'm sorry but you're going to have to rationalize your beliefs a lot better, because it's really terrible to support strongarming aid agencies for "questionable intents" considering Gaza is literally starving for food and medicine.[/QUOTE] My sister is a petty officer on board that boat, one of the higher ups got beaten with protest signs when he tried to leave the ship incognito. They were also trailed by a Russian ship under suspicion that they were carrying weapons and ammunition, was quite a tense few days for the rest of us.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm]No, It's pretty much confirmed that Israel is using human shields.[/url]
[QUOTE=Omali;13242575]My sister is a petty officer on board that boat, one of the higher ups got beaten with protest signs when he tried to leave the ship incognito. They were also trailed by a Russian ship under suspicion that they were carrying weapons and ammunition, was quite a tense few days for the rest of us.[/QUOTE] but did the Russians ram them and demand they go away before they could offload the cargo?
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13242593][url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm]No, It's pretty much confirmed that Israel is using human shields.[/url][/QUOTE] I know it's old but it just goes to show how hypocritical the IDF is. also [img]http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/dailymail_humanshield.jpg[/img] keep justifying Israel's oppression against Palestine if you want, but the evidence is damning. Just because the U.S. government unquestioningly supports Israel doesn't mean you have to!
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242380]woopsies [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009116089728759.html[/url] it's okay though that hospital was harboring terrorists; basically israel can just blow up whatever the fuck it wants so long as some Hamas dudes (like policemen and aid workers) are running around there. Hamas isn't just a militant group, they do a lot of civil shit in Gaza. Israel is making things up, and I'd not be surprised if the Israeli government literally does not value Palestinian lives as much as Israeli lives. [/QUOTE] In my opinion it has less to do with the people on the ground and more to do with the people on the boat. If those Greek relief workers get nailed accidentally then that is a country that is going to be extremely angry with Israel. And of course they don't value Palestinian lives as much as Israeli lives. The government serves its people, not the Palestinians. I'd be pissed if my government valued my life as much as a Canadian or Mexican life. (No offense to our Canadian or Mexican friends.) They are supposed to value the lives of their citizens above all else. That is an admirable trait.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13242621]In my opinion it has less to do with the people on the ground and more to do with the people on the boat. If those Greek relief workers get nailed accidentally then that is a country that is going to be extremely angry with Israel. And of course they don't value Palestinian lives as much as Israeli lives. The government serves its people, not the Palestinians. I'd be pissed if my government valued my life as much as a Canadian or Mexican life. (No offense to our Canadian or Mexican friends.) They are supposed to value the lives of their citizens above all else. That is an admirable trait.[/QUOTE] It's part of Israel's tactics. Get rid of all the international aid groups so no one can watch the IDF shoot kids in the back. It worked on the UN and Red Cross, why not Greece?
[QUOTE=GunFox;13242621]In my opinion it has less to do with the people on the ground and more to do with the people on the boat. If those Greek relief workers get nailed accidentally then that is a country that is going to be extremely angry with Israel. And of course they don't value Palestinian lives as much as Israeli lives. The government serves its people, not the Palestinians. I'd be pissed if my government valued my life as much as a Canadian or Mexican life. (No offense to our Canadian or Mexican friends.) They are supposed to value the lives of their citizens above all else. That is an admirable trait.[/QUOTE] well I wouldn't want my country openly being ethnocentric but to each his own
[QUOTE=doggunn;13242182]Israel had reason to blow up the convoy.[/QUOTE] Lol Zion.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242613]I know it's old but it just goes to show how hypocritical the IDF is. also [img]http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/dailymail_humanshield.jpg[/img] keep justifying Israel's oppression against Palestine if you want, but the evidence is damning. Just because the U.S. government unquestioningly supports Israel doesn't mean you have to![/QUOTE] That one event has been posted over and over again. We accept Israel has done it in the past, but they're not doing it anymore. Also I'm sure we can all accept that the Palestians have done it waaay more than Israel. [QUOTE=Fred;13242759]Lol Zion.[/QUOTE] Shut up and stop posting that useless shit.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242569][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828536.stm[/url] it just keeps coming Sooner or later you gotta stop being an Israeli apologist after all these reports. Regardless what the government says, there are Zionists in the Israeli military that openly hate Palestinians and putting them in Gaza spells trouble for civilians, thanks to all this cultural tension.[/QUOTE] Yes. They are intentionally storming the city with orders to shoot up the kids and aunts. It has nothing to do with the fact that the enemy wears no uniform and hides amongst the people leading to a bunch of soldiers (compulsory Israeli military service, these guys didn't just sign up because they wanted to) who are high strung from being shot at by people who look like civilians. Even voluntary American and British soldiers make the exact same mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Same thing happened during the Vietnam war as well. It isn't a sign that they are evil, its just what happens when a conventional military force goes head to head with a guerrilla faction who chooses to hide in the civilian population in an urban area.
[QUOTE=Fred;13242759]Lol Zion.[/QUOTE] Post constructively or don't post at all. You've trolled throughout the past 10-15 pages of this thread.
[QUOTE=doggunn;13242828] Shut up and stop posting that useless shit.[/QUOTE] Says the sociopath-psychotic Zion. [img]http://www.love-tub.net/forum/images/smilies/shrug.png[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling. You were warned." - GunFox))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242672]well I wouldn't want my country openly being ethnocentric but to each his own[/QUOTE] Ethnocentric isn't quite right. It isn't that you are superior, it is simply the fact that you are of one country and they are of another.
Shit is never going to end in the middle east. Too many county's crammed together all believing in different things and too many government issues. Throw in all the super powers connected to the middle east and blammo. This is going to pass on with someone getting there ass kicked then another thing will start up between 2 countys or more.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13242967]Ethnocentric isn't quite right. It isn't that you are superior, it is simply the fact that you are of one country and they are of another.[/QUOTE] They are still human beings, and they don't deserve what is happening. Just because they don't live in Israeli territory doesn't mean you can forgo their rights to even food and water.
[QUOTE=Fred;13242912]Says the sociopath-psychotic Zion. [img]http://www.love-tub.net/forum/images/smilies/shrug.png[/img][/QUOTE] Cya... [QUOTE=CubeManv2;13242997]Shit is never going to end in the middle east. Too many county's crammed together all believing in different things and too many government issues. Throw in all the super powers connected to the middle east and blammo. This is going to pass on with someone getting there ass kicked then another thing will start up between 2 countys or more.[/QUOTE] That's why Israel has peace deals with a couple of surroding countries. And they work...
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;13243028]They are still human beings, and they don't deserve what is happening. Just because they don't live in Israeli territory doesn't mean you can forgo their rights to even food and water.[/QUOTE] We've established that the Palestine Government does shit all to help with the situation.
[QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]No, I'm pretty sure I got it right the first time. This is a political conflict, not religious.[/QUOTE] Care to actually back this up with anything, or are you just going to say it? [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]They are not killing people because of their beliefs, but because they are being opressed. Also, they don't kill 1 Palestinian for every Israeli, they kill like 10, or 20 or even more.[/QUOTE] Except, if you actually bothered to read the article I sent you in the previous post, their leaders are pretty much much all vowing to kill for their beliefs. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Wow, if he says I'm blind, I must be blind.[/QUOTE] He says you're blind, and provide facts, you claim you aren't but refute nothing. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Okay.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Which one? Post it again.[/QUOTE] [url]http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-MnAYiEWk[/url] Lazy [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]What I'm trying to tell you is, that if you fire inhumane weapons against the civilian population intentionally, the civilians won't like you quite as much.[/QUOTE] Except the Palestinians have already not liked them since 1947. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]No, I'm not supporting them. However, I do understand why they are able to gather such large support from the population.[/QUOTE] But at the same time you don't understand why. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Because those numbers are from the conflict currently discussed in this thread. However those figures from that article clearly show the same pattern. The Palestinians are always hit the hardest.[/QUOTE] The conflict discussed in the thread is the conflict that has been going on since way before you were born. Also you only starting counting casualties starting from Israels retaliation. What do you think caused the retaliation? [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Oh wait, they can't because Israel is blocking the roads. Besides, leaving your home and your land behind, just so Israel can grab it, will doubtfully seem like a popular alternative amongst the population. It's funny how they seem to think that the land is theirs, seeing as how they've lived there for decades. Stupid Palestinians.[/QUOTE] What about Egypt? Do you know anything about the Gaza strip? Are you suggesting death is a better alternative then leaving their "cramped ghettos with no food"? Why do you flip-flop on the subject of this so much? [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Oh wow, that totally trustworthy site pops up again. Because it's so unbiased and made of solid proof, I'm going to believe every single thing written on it.[/QUOTE] A site that doesn't agree with you is now biased? Maybe you should bother scrolling to the bottom and seeing how it's sourced like a motherfucker. If something is bad, and I say it's bad, I'm biased because of the facts I present? That is completely asinine. Maybe for arguments sake you should read it, and check the sources at the bottom, instead of jumping to conclusions and looking like an idiot on internet forums. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]I haven't seen a single shred of objective evidence that supports your case. Guess I'll have to keep being ignorant. Oh, and do I know that the conflicts started way before this one. Israel has been bad in the past, but I do believe they've completly crossed the line this time.[/QUOTE] Then you actually must be blind. Define evidence? I've presented loads of shit, while on the other hand you just say, well "nope you're wrong, it's a political conflict" without backing it up at all. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Israel still has the upper hand over Hamas, they are not a proper threat to the existence of Israel. Also, they only add more fuel to the fire by bombing civilians.[/QUOTE] You're right, and they're making sure they won't be a threat again, because if you knew anything about the history, or what a hudna is, then you'd know that a cease-fire is not the way to end this conflict. [QUOTE=Taishu;13240387]Finally, explain the recent attack on the UN by Israel.[/QUOTE] Which recent attack? The UN school that got bombed because it was being used to fire weapons? Because you know, it's not like Hamas can't control the UN in it's own country. Oh wait: [url]http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=MAR_Iwq9-R0[/url]
[QUOTE=doggunn;13243056]We've established that the Palestine Government does shit all to help with the situation.[/QUOTE] Apparently in some rural areas, Israeli troops are shooting at anyone who opens their doors/curtains. Fair enough this could be put down to a number of real and accidental reasons because you don't know who is behind the door and recruits are liable to brick it when someone steps outside. But according to afew accounts now they have asked civilians to leave their homes and head for schools ect, asking woman and children to come out first, followed by the men... but then they have shot woman in the head when they are in the street. How can you put shooting a woman in the head, while she is walking in the street down to an accident? Rural Gazans in some on going conflict areas occupied by the IDF can't leave their homes for supplies without being shot. Surely they should be making better efforts to form a safe corridor for civilians to exit through?
[QUOTE=Sibilantjoe;13242593][url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm]No, It's pretty much confirmed that Israel is using human shields.[/url][/QUOTE] Nevermind, but that isn't human shields, it's more like messangers
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13242613]I know it's old but it just goes to show how hypocritical the IDF is. also [img]http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/dailymail_humanshield.jpg[/img] keep justifying Israel's oppression against Palestine if you want, but the evidence is damning. Just because the U.S. government unquestioningly supports Israel doesn't mean you have to![/QUOTE] You are such a god damn crybaby. No one was shooting at him. They put him up there to teach him a lesson.
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