• Israel Thread [STOP MAKING NEW ONES]
    3,126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13284280]umm p sure neither is preferable but ok dude[/QUOTE] No shit, both are terrible outcomes. But if shit hits the fan and the Palestinians ever gain the means to actually take Israel by conventional force, then the line has to be drawn and sides have to be chosen. And regardless of the victor, they won't let the loser survive after such a conflict. THIS is the problem with allowing Hamas to gain serious power. Major open conflict becomes a real risk. So what you basically want from Israel is to back down and allow their enemy the chance to build up their forces so the fight can be "fair"? I want Palestine to have their own little sovereign nation, but they are going to need to be kept on a tigh leash by the UN or the United States for it work. Removal of the naval blockades and airspace control is necessary as is any military or civilian presence still inside their lines. But the wall is perfectly legal and continued embargo of goods is just fine. After all, they are a sovereign nation. You can build up a wall on your side of the line and place an embargo on them if you wish. Someone has to get it through their thick skulls that the only way the path of war ends for them is with their total demise.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13285400]No shit, both are terrible outcomes. But if shit hits the fan and the Palestinians ever gain the means to actually take Israel by conventional force, then the line has to be drawn and sides have to be chosen. And regardless of the victor, they won't let the loser survive after such a conflict.[/QUOTE] Why do sides have to be chosen? Quite frankly I don't see how it's possible for a person to prefer that one group of people is mercilessly massacred over another. It's such a disgusting train of thought that it isn't even funny.
[QUOTE=The_KTV;13285486]Why do sides have to be chosen? Quite frankly I don't see how it's possible for a person to prefer that one group of people is mercilessly massacred over another. It's such a disgusting train of thought that it isn't even funny.[/QUOTE] You are missing the point. The point is to avoid this outcome entirely and allow Palestine to exist without them deciding to engage in full scale conflict with Israel. BUT SHOULD THAT FAIL It will quite possibly come down to one faction or the other being totally obliterated. The goal being to avoid this most horrid of outcomes.
Really because I think I'm hitting the point dead on, in the event that one group IS going to get wiped out, you would prefer it be the Palestinians. [quote=GunFox]No I'm saying total genocide of Palestinians is preferable to the total genocide of Jewish Israelis. Jewish Israelis are contributing members of the world, the Palestinians would undoubtedly wind up like their allies, Iran.[/quote] That in itself is just horrible.
Israel pulls out of Gaza But it's too late- Gaza is now pregnant.
[QUOTE=The_KTV;13285693]Really because I think I'm hitting the point dead on, in the event that one group IS going to get wiped out, you would prefer it be the Palestinians. That in itself is just horrible.[/QUOTE] Yes I'm a terrible person for preferring the people who hate us die over the people who have been our friends. Oh man what ever will I do. I'd prefer a car full of people I don't know die instead of a car full of my friends. I'd prefer a plane crashes in India rather than in the United States. I'd prefer a car bomb goes off in Paris rather than my hometown. I'd prefer a faction who hates my country dies instead of the faction who likes us. Yes yes. So terrible.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13285776]Yes I'm a terrible person for preferring the people who hate us die over the people who have been our friends. Oh man what ever will I do. I'd prefer a car full of people I don't know die instead of a car full of my friends. I'd prefer a plane crashes in India rather than in the United States. I'd prefer a car bomb goes off in Paris rather than my hometown. I'd prefer a faction who hates my country dies instead of the faction who likes us. Yes yes. So terrible.[/QUOTE] I prefer religion coming to a stop altogether, and we both know that's not happening.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13284144]No I'm saying total genocide of Palestinians is preferable to the total genocide of Jewish Israelis. Jewish Israelis are contributing members of the world, the Palestinians would undoubtedly wind up like their allies, Iran. What do you think would happen if Hamas successfully gained control over Israel?[/QUOTE] [B]Holy shit.[/B]
What the hell does Israel contribute to the world? Apart from acting as a catalyst to a shit storm of hate and misunderstanding. Bunch of sycophant scape-goat artists.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;13286288]What the hell does Israel contribute to the world? Apart from acting as a catalyst to a shit storm of hate and misunderstanding. Bunch of sycophant scape-goat artists.[/QUOTE] They are a powerhouse of R&D, the population is extremely well educated and intelligent. Here is a good summary: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Israel[/url]
[quote=gunfox;13286430]they are a powerhouse of r&d, the population is extremely well educated and intelligent. Here is a good summary: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/science_and_technology_in_israel[/url][/quote] yeah fuck those brownies that have been cut off education, israel pwns them.
[QUOTE=Fred;13286644]yeah fuck those brownies that have been cut off education, israel pwns them.[/QUOTE] Hey it's not his fault Israelis are just an all around better race than the dumb and docile Palestinians
[QUOTE=Fred;13286644]yeah fuck those brownies that have been cut off education, israel pwns them.[/QUOTE] Having a halfway decent education system is a very small step in having an intelligent population. The real bulk of the work comes from how the country is run in general. If the quality of life is high and the poverty levels are low. Poorly run countries often suffer from Brain drain where many of their educated and intelligent members leave because they are aware of how terrible the country is. The countries surrounding Israel, Iran in particular, suffer from brain drain. If they would start working with Israel, chances are their quality of life would skyrocket. These people need education. The region sucks for natural resources, which largely means that the number of jobs for the poorly educated are very few. So if they would hop on board the Israel train, they could strongly benefit from the added opportunities and perhaps finally take steps away from fundamentalist Islam or worse, extremist Islam.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13286896]Hey it's not his fault Israelis are just an all around better race than the dumb and docile Palestinians[/QUOTE] Israeli isn't a race. It's a nationality. It includes both Arab and Jew, which are races. This has little to do with race and everything to do with nationality. I would like to see the Palestinians be absorbed into the Israeli nationality. It won't happen, but that would help them by far the most. More realistically would be that they get their own country. Which will most likely not be run terribly well, but still would offer a significant boost in their quality of life provided they could keep out of trouble with Israel. Perhaps the latter would lead to the former. If they play nice long enough as separate countries, perhaps they could eventually merge. Probably the least likely of all three, but would be the most pleasant to see.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;13286288]What the hell does Israel contribute to the world? Apart from acting as a catalyst to a shit storm of hate and misunderstanding. Bunch of sycophant scape-goat artists.[/QUOTE] They made the tavor and galil. [quote=Gunfox] Perhaps the latter would lead to the former. If they play nice long enough as separate countries, perhaps they could eventually merge. Probably the least likely of all three, but would be the most pleasant to see.[/quote] Israelistine?
[QUOTE=GunFox;13287053]Israeli isn't a race. It's a nationality. It includes both Arab and Jew, which are races. This has little to do with race and everything to do with nationality. I would like to see the Palestinians be absorbed into the Israeli nationality. It won't happen, but that would help them by far the most. More realistically would be that they get their own country. Which will most likely not be run terribly well, but still would offer a significant boost in their quality of life provided they could keep out of trouble with Israel. Perhaps the latter would lead to the former. If they play nice long enough as separate countries, perhaps they could eventually merge. Probably the least likely of all three, but would be the most pleasant to see.[/QUOTE] You're fully aware that I meant the Israeli Jews. The Palestinians lucky enough to be granted Israeli citizenship and actually live outside territories walled off by the Israeli 'Defense' Force surprisingly enough don't hold very much influence in Israeli society. Especially when Israel is banning 'Arab' parties at will. That and the fact the standard of living for Palestinians inside Israel is lower than that of the Israeli Jewish population.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;13286288]What the hell does Israel contribute to the world? Apart from acting as a catalyst to a shit storm of hate and misunderstanding. Bunch of sycophant scape-goat artists.[/QUOTE] they make advanced wapons
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13287858]they make advanced wapons[/QUOTE] They also are pioneers in the field of segregating brown people.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13287768]Especially when Israel is banning 'Arab' parties at will.[/QUOTE] Are you referring to the parties that wanted to destroy Israel? Conspiracy to commit violence is a crime in the US too you know, let alone domestic terrorism. By the way, there are Muslim members of the Israeli parliament. Jews in Hamas or the government of any arab nation? I don't think so.
[QUOTE=R3conmaster;13287865]Are you referring to the parties that wanted to destroy Israel? Conspiracy to commit violence is a crime in the US too you know, let alone domestic terrorism.[/QUOTE] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7825032.stm[/url] Have fun!
[QUOTE=Chippays;13287768]You're fully aware that I meant the Israeli Jews. The Palestinians lucky enough to be granted Israeli citizenship and actually live outside territories walled off by the Israeli 'Defense' Force surprisingly enough don't hold very much influence in Israeli society. Especially when Israel is banning 'Arab' parties at will. That and the fact the standard of living for Palestinians inside Israel is lower than that of the Israeli Jewish population.[/QUOTE] And yet by far the largest political party in Israel supports the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state and the smaller major parties are the ones who wish to kick the Arabic members to the curb. Funny how that works. Not to mention these oppressed Arab citizens much prefer Israel to current or future Palestinian states. Turns out people kinda like having health insurance and schools instead of mad men and terrorists. [url]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517266741&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull[/url]
[QUOTE=GunFox;13288029]And yet by far the largest political party in Israel supports the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state and the smaller major parties are the ones who wish to kick the Arabic members to the curb. Funny how that works. Not to mention these oppressed Arab citizens much prefer Israel to current or future Palestinian states. Turns out people kinda like having health insurance and schools instead of mad men and terrorists. [url]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517266741&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull[/url][/QUOTE] It's nice how you think every single Arab in Israel prefers Israel to having a Palestinian state because of an article by the [I]Jerusalem Post[/I] about how a few people do. And I might be a little old fashioned, but I don't really think banning Political Parties that have views I don't agree with is a very progressive policy. I know, it's a little weird. I honestly didn't know that all the Arab citizens preferred Israel to Palestine though. I guess I was a little confused by the huge amounts of protests, entire districts of Palestinian shops closing off during the second Intifada, children throwing rocks at the IDF. I guess you learn something every day.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13288029]And yet by far the largest political party in Israel supports the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state and the smaller major parties are the ones who wish to kick the Arabic members to the curb. Funny how that works. Not to mention these oppressed Arab citizens much prefer Israel to current or future Palestinian states. Turns out people kinda like having health insurance and schools instead of mad men and terrorists. [url]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517266741&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull[/url][/QUOTE] dont cite jpost actually don't even look at jpost it's a zionist version of fox news
Silly gunfox, I guess logic is for kids. The reason they have terrorists is because Israel exists. If Israel didn't invade, there wouldn't be that problem in the first place. Also, the Israelis destroy people's houses, claiming that the people living there had weapons, or they were the family members of deceased suicide terrorists. Except for the fact they flatten entire blocks. Who would prefer living in someone else's country, while their friends are being killed, and neighbours houses are being bulldosed. You don't make any sense.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13288088]It's nice how you think every single Arab in Israel prefers Israel to having a Palestinian state because of an article by the [I]Jerusalem Post[/I] about how a few people do. And I might be a little old fashioned, but I don't really think banning Political Parties that have views I don't agree with is a very progressive policy. I know, it's a little weird. I honestly didn't know that all the Arab citizens preferred Israel to Palestine though. I guess I was a little confused by the huge amounts of protests, entire districts of Palestinian shops closing off during the second Intifada, children throwing rocks at the IDF. I guess you learn something every day.[/QUOTE] The article talks about how Israeli Arabs like Israel. Not non Israeli Arabs. Given that the two parties which were banned make up only 6 seats out of the 120, despite a 20% Arab population, it would seem that the voting records support the findings. I'm surprised the Israeli supreme court even allowed it to happen. Previously they have viciously put down the attempts. Hopefully it will be sorted out and the parties will be allowed to return. Anyhow so I'll pose this question to you: What would you like to have happen? Be realistic please. What do you believe will solve this problem? [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;13288166]Silly gunfox, I guess logic is for kids. The reason they have terrorists is because Israel exists. If Israel didn't invade, there wouldn't be that problem in the first place. [/QUOTE] Israel has terrorists because the Arabs have been trying to kill the Jews ever since Israel was established.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13288484]The article talks about how Israeli Arabs like Israel. Not non Israeli Arabs. Given that the two parties which were banned make up only 6 seats out of the 120, despite a 20% Arab population, it would seem that the voting records support the findings. I'm surprised the Israeli supreme court even allowed it to happen. Previously they have viciously put down the attempts. Hopefully it will be sorted out and the parties will be allowed to return. Anyhow so I'll pose this question to you: What would you like to have happen? Be realistic please. What do you believe will solve this problem? [/QUOTE] I'm fully aware of who the article talks about. And just because parties don't get many seats (there's hundreds of reasons for this, rather than the simplified "Well all the Israeli Palestinians love Israel!") doesn't give you a right to ban a party. Israel is literally silencing any dissenting voices. And although it has been said before, and is about as realistic as a third intifada bringing Israel to the ground. I would like to see a Two-State solution to the problem and both of the States adopting a secular constitution. So in the same way that a 32 year old Jew in London wouldn't have more of a right to citizenship than a refugee who used to live in East Jerusalem, neither would a Christian displaced within Palestinian Bethlehem.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13287894][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7825032.stm[/url] Have fun![/QUOTE] Yeah, those were the parties I thought you were talking about. My response stands.
[QUOTE=R3conmaster;13288916]Yeah, those were the parties I thought you were talking about. My response stands.[/QUOTE] Haha, sure. Whatever helps you rationalize that Israel is surpressing free speech and banning political parties.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13288689]I'm fully aware of who the article talks about. And just because parties don't get many seats (there's hundreds of reasons for this, rather than the simplified "Well all the Israeli Palestinians love Israel!") doesn't give you a right to ban a party. Israel is literally silencing any dissenting voices. And although it has been said before, and is about as realistic as a third intifada bringing Israel to the ground. I would like to see a Two-State solution to the problem and both of the States adopting a secular constitution. So in the same way that a 32 year old Jew in London wouldn't have more of a right to citizenship than a refugee who used to live in East Jerusalem, neither would a Christian displaced within Palestinian Bethlehem.[/QUOTE] Oh absolutely, I hate that they even have the ability to ban parties. I really don't understand how it is allowed even by the Jewish population. As I said, hopefully the issue will be sorted out. Preferably permanently through legislation which adopts something similar to the US laws surrounding party qualification (Not necessarily the best, I use it as an example merely because I am only even remotely familiar with it). As for the two states, we agree there. I certainly believe that the two state solution would be a wonderful way to solve the problem and relieve the tension between the nations. I just remain concerned that decades of fighting between the faction may have left a wound which will require serious UN/US (US because the US is probably the only single faction that could legitimately frighten the Israelis enough into playing nice both from a military and economic standpoint.) oversight to see it through. Not impossible by any means, but definitely something which would need to be watched closely to prevent further bloodshed on either side.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13288995]Haha, sure. Whatever helps you rationalize that Israel is surpressing free speech and banning political parties.[/QUOTE] You can't yell fire in a movie theater. That doesn't infringe on free speech. And the UN has always been anti-Israel. They even condemned Israel for invading a sovereign state when they rescued 105 hostage Jews from Idi Amin's Uganda.
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