• Israel Thread [STOP MAKING NEW ONES]
    3,126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=R3conmaster;13290084]You can't yell fire in a movie theater. That doesn't infringe on free speech. And the UN has always been anti-Israel. They even condemned Israel for invading a sovereign state when they rescued 105 hostage Jews from Idi Amin's Uganda.[/QUOTE] I don't know what magical fairy land you live in, but banning political parties, despite their goals is infringing on free speech. And all the [I]awful[/I] comparisons in the world aren't going to change that. And I honestly don't care what your opinion of the UN is.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13284144]No I'm saying total genocide of Palestinians is preferable to the total genocide of Jewish Israelis. Jewish Israelis are contributing members of the world, the Palestinians would undoubtedly wind up like their allies, Iran. What do you think would happen if Hamas successfully gained control over Israel?[/QUOTE] Palestine=Hamas now?
[QUOTE=markfu;13279655]That's like saying I bet it'll rain this year.[/QUOTE] That's the sad thing
[QUOTE=slogsdon;13291071]Palestine=Hamas now?[/QUOTE] Elected in a landslide. So the difference is the same as any other democratically elected government and its people.
this just in: "only a very small percentage of children can survive bullet wounds to the head" [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13272317]whether something was shot from a tank or artillery gun when it's blatantly and hilariously obvious from the picture it was an artillery round hitting the SCHOOL (just like the article says)[/QUOTE] Your article shows stray disks in front of a school. Not WP hitting a school. It also says "Witnesses said four more people were killed when other shells struck nearby as people tried to escape." The school was hit by stray tank fire, people ran out of the school into the open and got hit by the shelling. If you don't have faith in your own article then don't post it and talk about another event. Simple, and keeps you from raging when you realize you can't go anywhere with it. And if you're presuming everyone on a battlefield is a precise and capable killer there's several veterans of Vietnam, the Gulf War, and the like I'd like you to speak with. [QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13272471]You know why this is a bad ceasefire? Because the IDF will still have troops in Gaza, and as occupiers, they will be targeted by Hamas. This will give Israel an excuse to resume the fighting. It's almost as if you have the "right idea", but you still have terrible arguments.[/QUOTE] So lemme get this straight- if you declare a cease fire, in hostile territory, and your enemy shoots you, it's your fault? You're expecting a retreat, which is downright stupid, nobody just hands over control of an area they just took during a conflict, it's the IDF's right now. They have to let the IDF have it for the time being. They want it back they fight for it or try to talk, they chose fighting. Their fault. By the by- [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-dershowitz10-2009jan10,0,2587090.story[/url] [QUOTE=Pvt. Ryan;13272471]Hamas knows that the moment it ends its policy of firing rockets at Israeli civilians from behind the shield of Palestinian civilians, Israel will end its military activities in Gaza. That is precisely the result Hamas does not want to achieve.[/QUOTE] How is it that you're the only person incapable of understanding this?
Imo we should just bomb the brownies until they vote right.
[QUOTE=slogsdon;13291071]Palestine=Hamas now?[/QUOTE] Yes. As Gunfox said, elected in a landslide. It's like when people say US = Bush, despite both elections being very close.
[QUOTE=Omali;13294371]Yes. As Gunfox said, elected in a landslide. It's like when people say US = Bush, despite both elections being very close.[/QUOTE] Hamas = Gaza Not Palestine.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13290208]I don't know what magical fairy land you live in, but banning political parties, despite their goals is infringing on free speech. And all the [I]awful[/I] comparisons in the world aren't going to change that. And I honestly don't care what your opinion of the UN is.[/QUOTE] Good bye brick wall.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;13288166]Silly gunfox, I guess logic is for kids. The reason they have terrorists is because Israel exists. If Israel didn't invade, there wouldn't be that problem in the first place. Also, the Israelis destroy people's houses, claiming that the people living there had weapons, or they were the family members of deceased suicide terrorists. Except for the fact they flatten entire blocks. Who would prefer living in someone else's country, while their friends are being killed, and neighbours houses are being bulldosed. You don't make any sense.[/QUOTE] Your post doesn't make any sense because Israel has never invaded ANY country. Israel has been attack since it's establishment. Obviously, that shitty Arab armies got crushed by the Israelis. If you'd read at least Wikipedia, you'd know that ALL the lands Israel captured were during wars that THE ARAB COUNTRIES STARTED THEMSELVES.
Using annexed land to house your own population is illegal under international law, and in this case is ethnic cleansing.
[QUOTE=R3conmaster;13294628]Good bye brick wall.[/QUOTE] When you don't have an argument do the next best thing: Completely disregard everything said. Have fun in your magical fantasy world where surpressing free speech is acceptable and silencing minority parties is just fine.
[QUOTE=Masta Crembo;13300345]Your post doesn't make any sense because Israel has never invaded ANY country. Israel has been attack since it's establishment. Obviously, that shitty Arab armies got crushed by the Israelis. If you'd read at least Wikipedia, you'd know that ALL the lands Israel captured were during wars that THE ARAB COUNTRIES STARTED THEMSELVES.[/QUOTE] Wrong. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War[/url] Israeli forces launched a preemptive strike on the airforces of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and then defeated them. Israel made the first move.
[QUOTE=Masta Crembo;13300345]Your post doesn't make any sense because Israel has never invaded ANY country.[/QUOTE] Palestine (Hurr) Egypt (2 times over the Sinai peninsula) Lebanon (4 times) Syria (1 time; also annexed captured land) Jordan (1 time; also annexed captured land)
[QUOTE=Chippays;13300874]Wrong. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War[/url] Israeli forces launched a preemptive strike on the airforces of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and then defeated them. Israel made the first move.[/QUOTE] You know why it was a preemptive strike? Because it was made obvious that by Egypt they were preparing for war.
[QUOTE=toxicpiano;13301336]You know why it was a preemptive strike? Because it was made obvious by Jordan and Syria were preparing for war.[/QUOTE] That doesn't change the facts. Regardless it's just one out of many.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7838598.stm[/url] [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200911916132228885.html[/url] if there are still people who say israel has been completely civil w.r.t palestinian civilians then welp
[QUOTE=Chippays;13301367]That doesn't change the facts. Regardless it's just one out of many.[/QUOTE] 'On June 3, days before the war, Egypt flew to Amman two battalions of commandos tasked with infiltrating Israel's borders and engaging in attacks and bombings so as to draw IDF into a Jordanian front and ease the pressure on the Egyptians. Soviet-made artillery and Egyptian military supplies and crews were also flown to Jordan.' War was inevitable, regardless of who made the first move.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;13294439]Hamas = Gaza Not Palestine.[/QUOTE] Ah you make an excellent point. I did generalize that far too much. My apologies. I'd be interested to see how the west bank would have voted.
I don't think Hamas is really popular over in the West Bank. I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;13302204]I don't think Hamas is really popular over in the West Bank. I could be wrong.[/QUOTE] It's such a catch 22 either way if they are to become a single sovereign nation. If they support Hamas, then chances are they are in trouble. Hamas is entirely too unstable and crazy to be the stable government that they really need. But if they don't support Hamas, then there is a good chance that it will cause serious civil conflict in the new nation. Hamas doesn't take kindly to competition it would seem. I feel like the total removal of Hamas from the Palestinian people would do them far more good than harm. A government more willing to talk and less willing to send people on suicide missions would get far more done. [url]http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/20/africa/20mideast.php[/url] [quote=Hamas official]"Israel has succeeded in killing everything except the will of the people," said Taher al-Nunu, the main government spokesman. "They said they were going to dismantle the resistance and demolish the rockets, but after this historic victory, the government is steadfast, we are working and they were not able to stop the rockets."[/quote] What is [I]wrong[/I] with this guy? They just killed 1,300 people over the rockets. What does he think they are going to do when the rockets continue?! There is going to be a massacre that dwarfs this one. So far all they have accomplished is pissing Israel off so much that not only do they invade the strip, but the dickwads in the Israeli government finally managed to kick two of the Arab parties out of the Israeli government. The rockets are hurting their own people far [I]far[/I] worse than Israel.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13303156]I feel like the total removal of Hamas from the Palestinian people would do them far more good than harm. A government more willing to talk and less willing to send people on suicide missions would get far more done.[/QUOTE] Who would you put in their place, Fatah?
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13303419]Who would you put in their place, Fatah?[/QUOTE] Well if forced to choose between the two, Fatah has apparently shown signs of being marginally less crazy. Where Hamas is pretty much universally considered a terrorist organization, Fatah is seen as a legitimate government. I would HOPE they would create a new government party which was more willing to deal diplomatically. The countries don't have to be friends, but the only way the Palestinians are going to make any real headway is through diplomatic channels. Prove to Israel that they just want their own country and they aren't going to continue to blow up Jews, and I imagine Israel would be much more likely to pull its troops out and allow them the opportunity to forge their own country. It can't be cheap for the Israelis to keep those areas occupied.
[QUOTE=Chippays;13300803]When you don't have an argument do the next best thing: Completely disregard everything said. Have fun in your magical fantasy world where surpressing free speech is acceptable and silencing minority parties is just fine.[/QUOTE] That's funny. I called you a brick wall precisely because it was you that disregarded everything that I said. You did not respond to a single thing I wrote. Instead, you insisted that you were right, and that I live in a "magical fantasy world." Has it ever occurred to you that you might not always be right? That your opinion might not be fact? It is exceedingly impossible to argue with an arrogant ideologue. I myself have criticized Israel far beyond many of my jewish friends, largely due to my progressive beliefs. However, I don't know anyone more interested in belittling the points of others and imposing your own beliefs than you. Speaking of fantasy worlds, I used actual laws (conspiracy to commit violence, domestic terrorism, free speech that does not threaten the safety of others) to back up Israel's position. You seem to think that terrorist parties are fine and dandy, which is a little more fantastic than what I said.
[QUOTE=GunFox;13303467]Well if forced to choose between the two, Fatah has apparently shown signs of being marginally less crazy. Where Hamas is pretty much universally considered a terrorist organization, Fatah is seen as a legitimate government. I would HOPE they would create a new government party which was more willing to deal diplomatically. The countries don't have to be friends, but the only way the Palestinians are going to make any real headway is through diplomatic channels. Prove to Israel that they just want their own country and they aren't going to continue to blow up Jews, and I imagine Israel would be much more likely to pull its troops out and allow them the opportunity to forge their own country. It can't be cheap for the Israelis to keep those areas occupied.[/QUOTE] I agree with you on everything except the idea that Fatah is a "legitimate government." Somewhat hard to think so when they walk out like they did in '06. Kinda a "moody child" move, then again, that does seem to be all we ever get here. I'd like to agree with you as far as getting somebody else in charge (or a reconciliation between Hamas/Fatah- anything, whatever) but the fine miasma of bullshit seeping into the "news" regarding this seem to suggest simultaneous support and hatred for everyone in the area. About the only thing easily pinned down as being bullshit is the Jpost's little claim that the IDF and Fatah were collaborating against Hamas.
[QUOTE=R3conmaster;13303556]That's funny. I called you a brick wall precisely because it was you that disregarded everything that I said. You did not respond to a single thing I wrote. Instead, you insisted that you were right, and that I live in a "magical fantasy world." Has it ever occurred to you that you might not always be right? That your opinion might not be fact? It is exceedingly impossible to argue with an arrogant ideologue. I myself have criticized Israel far beyond many of my jewish friends, largely due to my progressive beliefs. However, I don't know anyone more interested in belittling the points of others and imposing your own beliefs than you. Speaking of fantasy worlds, I used actual laws (conspiracy to commit violence, domestic terrorism, free speech that does not threaten the safety of others) to back up Israel's position. You seem to think that terrorist parties are fine and dandy, which is a little more fantastic than what I said.[/QUOTE] So because you assume I disregard what you said (I didn't, you're free to take another look back if you need it) you disregard mine. Progressive! It's also great to see you took a good part of your post to call me arrogant. Ironically right after you call me a 'Brick wall.' You're a hypocrite. But that fits in well with the argument you've chosen to represent yourself. But I'm truly sympathizing with you, after all you criticize Israel [B]far[/B][I]beyond your Jewish friends![/I] Unbelievable! You should pat yourself on the back, critizing Israel more than people who have a free passport to move their at any time in their life. A revolutionary idea to be sure. And sorry, the terrible Israeli reasoning for why these parties were banned does not make them Terrorists. Supporting Palestinians as being a National population of Israeli is not domestic terrorism. Please think up more reasons why surpressing minority parties is alright. Tell me more about how I'm arrogant while you continue to defend Israeli politicians silencing voices that they don't approve of.
I'd like to visit Israel someday. Maybe smoke some weed
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;13303891]I agree with you on everything except the idea that Fatah is a "legitimate government." Somewhat hard to think so when they walk out like they did in '06. Kinda a "moody child" move, then again, that does seem to be all we ever get here. I'd like to agree with you as far as getting somebody else in charge (or a reconciliation between Hamas/Fatah- anything, whatever) but the fine miasma of bullshit seeping into the "news" regarding this seem to suggest simultaneous support and hatred for everyone in the area. About the only thing easily pinned down as being bullshit is the Jpost's little claim that the IDF and Fatah were collaborating against Hamas.[/QUOTE] Haha, okay a [I]dick [/I]government, but about as legitimate as one can expect from the region. :-P
[QUOTE=Chippays;13303913]So because you assume I disregard what you said (I didn't, you're free to take another look back if you need it) you disregard mine. Progressive! It's also great to see you took a good part of your post to call me arrogant. Ironically right after you call me a 'Brick wall.' You're a hypocrite. But that fits in well with the argument you've chosen to represent yourself. But I'm truly sympathizing with you, after all you criticize Israel [B]far[/B][I]beyond your Jewish friends![/I] Unbelievable! You should pat yourself on the back, critizing Israel more than people who have a free passport to move their at any time in their life. A revolutionary idea to be sure. And sorry, the terrible Israeli reasoning for why these parties were banned does not make them Terrorists. Supporting Palestinians as being a National population of Israeli is not domestic terrorism. Please think up more reasons why surpressing minority parties is alright. Tell me more about how I'm arrogant while you continue to defend Israeli politicians silencing voices that they don't approve of.[/QUOTE] Well thanks for reminding me why I left, it's not like I enjoy being condescended to. I'm Jewish too, that's the point.
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