• OSHA publishes Best-Practice Guide for transgender bathroom access in the workplace
    93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;48236043]You know 'physical gender' doesn't exist, right? You're thinking of sex. Plus, can you imagine Laverne Cox: [img_thumb]http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Laverne-cox-its-annual-new-york-summer-benefit-01.jpg[/img_thumb] Going into the men's bathroom?[/QUOTE] Yes, because he's a man. Plastic surgery and wishful thinking can't change that. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Bigot" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;48236111]Yes, because he's a man. Plastic surgery and wishful thinking can't change that.[/QUOTE] you need to check yourself
There's always one, lads, report and move on
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;48231917]of which there are no gay perverts[/QUOTE] About 4% of the population identifies as LGBT. There's less risk in two people of the same sex having such issues than different sex.
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;48236111]Yes, because he's a man. Plastic surgery and wishful thinking can't change that.[/QUOTE] Michael hughes is an amazing example of this being total bullshit. How does even a transphobic person argue that this fits in with the same-sex bathroom system? [img]http://www.ajnm.me/sites/default/files/styles/big_thumbnail/public/1426180756-03122015-Transgender-US-Canada-Hughes.png?itok=AsCcN7VJ[/img]
[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;48236111]Yes, because he's a man. Plastic surgery and wishful thinking can't change that.[/QUOTE] Dictionary definitions review: [QUOTE]gen·der ˈjendər/Submit noun 1. the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones). "traditional concepts of gender"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]sex seks/Submit noun 1. (chiefly with reference to people) sexual activity, including specifically sexual intercourse. "he enjoyed talking about sex" synonyms: sexual intercourse, intercourse, lovemaking, making love, sex act, (sexual) relations; More 2. either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions. "adults of both sexes"[/QUOTE] For people who still don't know the difference.
[QUOTE=MedicWine;48236254]Michael hughes is an amazing example of this being total bullshit. How does even a transphobic person argue that this fits in with the same-sex bathroom system? [img]http://www.ajnm.me/sites/default/files/styles/big_thumbnail/public/1426180756-03122015-Transgender-US-Canada-Hughes.png?itok=AsCcN7VJ[/img][/QUOTE] That's where my argument comes into play. Using a camera in a company bathroom? Nope, sorry, I don't care what you identify as, security will watch you pack your things, if you come back you're trespassing and will be arrested, have a nice day!
Why not make the best practice that the minority of people who wish to use the bathroom they identify with just use the disabled bathroom. Most places have them, so a company wouldn't have to change anything structurally l, no one would become uncomfortable, and everyone just gets on with their day. Also not saying being transgender is a disability, I'd love to use the disabled toilets, its like a giant porcelain throne, with arm rests, a clean seat and stocked with plenty of toilet paper.
[QUOTE=thedeadlydodo;48236328]Why not make the best practice that the minority of people who wish to use the bathroom they identify with just use the disabled bathroom. Most places have them, so a company wouldn't have to change anything structurally l, no one would become uncomfortable, and everyone just gets on with their day. Also not saying being transgender is a disability, I'd love to use the disabled toilets, its like a giant porcelain throne, with arm rests, a clean seat and stocked with plenty of toilet paper.[/QUOTE] help help i'm being oppressed i'm being segregated into the concentration camp of bathrooms because of my life choices!!! Seriously, though, I can see people suing about that for really stupid reasons
I have never really understood transgender because it doesn't identify with me. People saying that they are this gender when in reality its something else, It just doesn't make sense to me.
[QUOTE=Passing;48236441]I have never really understood transgender because it doesn't identify with me. People saying that they are this gender when in reality its something else, It just doesn't make sense to me.[/QUOTE] Here's probably one of the best guides I can find to explain this kind of thing. Here's some gender terminology to help you differentiate the different meanings. [QUOTE][B]Gender Terminology[/B] Given the complexity of gender, it is not surprising that an increasing number of terms and phrases are developing to describe it. Below are some of the key terms you might encounter: [B]Biological/Anatomical Sex[/B]. The physical structure of one’s reproductive organs that is used to assign sex at birth. Biological sex is determined by chromosomes (XX for females; XY for males); hormones (estrogen/progesterone for females, testosterone for males); and internal and external genitalia (vulva, clitoris, vagina for assigned females, penis and testicles for assigned males). Given the potential variation in all of these, biological sex must be seen as a spectrum or range of possibilities rather than a binary set of two options. [B]Gender Identity[/B]. One’s innermost concept of self as male or female or both or neither—how individuals perceive themselves and what they call themselves. One’s gender identity can be the same or different than the sex assigned at birth. Individuals are conscious of this between the ages 18 months and 3 years. Most people develop a gender identity that matches their biological sex. For some, however, their gender identity is different from their biological or assigned sex. Some of these individuals choose to socially, hormonally and/or surgically change their sex to more fully match their gender identity. [B]Gender Expression[/B]. Refers to the ways in which people externally communicate their gender identity to others through behavior, clothing, haircut, voice, and other forms of presentation. Gender expression also works the other way as people assign gender to others based on their appearance, mannerisms, and other gendered characteristics. Sometimes, transgender people seek to match their physical expression with their gender identity, rather than their birth-assigned sex. Gender expression should not be viewed as an indication of sexual orientation. [B]Gender Role[/B]. This is the set of roles, activities, expectations and behaviors assigned to females and males by society. Our culture recognizes two basic gender roles: Masculine (having the qualities attributed to males) and feminine (having the qualities attributed to females). People who step out of their socially assigned gender roles are sometimes referred to as transgender. Other cultures have three or more gender roles. [B]Transgender[/B]. Sometimes used as an umbrella to describe anyone whose identity or behavior falls outside of stereotypical gender norms. More narrowly defined, it refers to an individual whose gender identity does not match their assigned birth gender. Being transgender does not imply any specific sexual orientation (attraction to people of a specific gender.) Therefore, transgender people may additionally identify with a variety of other sexual identities as well. [B]Sexual Orientation[/B]. Term that refers to being romantically or sexually attracted to people of a specific gender. Our sexual orientation and our gender identity are separate, distinct parts of our overall identity. Although a child may not yet be aware of their sexual orientation, they usually have a strong sense of their gender identity. [B]Gender Normative/Cisgender[/B]. Refers to people whose sex assignment at birth corresponds to their gender identity and expression. [B]Gender Fluidity[/B]. Gender fluidity conveys a wider, more flexible range of gender expression, with interests and behaviors that may even change from day to day. Gender fluid children do not feel confined by restrictive boundaries of stereotypical expectations of girls or boys. In other words, a child may feel they are a girl some days and a boy on others, or possibly feel that neither term describes them accurately.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48236083]The only real scary thing about full unisex restrooms is the combined gross shit you'd find in each respective restroom. Get ready for some used tampons and shit in urinals in the same room.[/QUOTE] unisex bathrooms are always really clean, at least in the UK
[QUOTE=.Lain;48237107]unisex bathrooms are always really clean, at least in the UK[/QUOTE] It depends on how frequented and by whom here office building bathrooms are going to be way more tolerable than train station bathrooms, unisex or otherwise
I like the idea of a "urinals" and "toilets" separation. It could be made unisex, but urinals don't get enough privacy as it is. Legacy restrooms would also convert better, since the few toilets in the mens restroom could be replaced with urinals instead of tearing up the building to combine the two rooms. I'm not totally comfortable with sharing bathrooms with the opposite sex (thanks culture) but my personal concerns revolve entirely around how open urinals are.
[QUOTE=thedeadlydodo;48236328]Why not make the best practice that the minority of people who wish to use the bathroom they identify with just use the disabled bathroom. Most places have them, so a company wouldn't have to change anything structurally l, no one would become uncomfortable, and everyone just gets on with their day. Also not saying being transgender is a disability, I'd love to use the disabled toilets, its like a giant porcelain throne, with arm rests, a clean seat and stocked with plenty of toilet paper.[/QUOTE] you might have those in the UK, but in the US (where OSHA exists), there are only disabled stalls within male and female bathrooms. there are occasionally unisex family restrooms for people to take their kids, but those are primarily for tourist and shopping centers where family foot-traffic is common, and aren't likely to be found in most workplaces.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48231755]They are legally enforceable and they are standards. OSHA sets the American standards for safety in work place environments from ladders to other things. OHSA has a lot of power, most if not all ladders will have, plastered on the side, "Certified by OSHA" and then have all the limits and weights and uses for that specific ladder underneath. Most companies follow the standards as it provides a consistent shield against lawsuits, if you meet OSHA standards, if someone is injured the company is protected because they followed the necessary standards and procedures.[/QUOTE] I work as a warehouse manager at a small company and we have to follow OSHA standards to a tee. It's very unlikely that you'd get a random visit from an inspector unless someone reports your company but god help your company if you get caught violating their regulations. They are not unreasonable regulations either, most of them are there to keep people safe and comfortable in their place of work.
I've never seen a segregated staff bathroom before, actually. They're usually not like the public ones with multiple stalls.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;48241472]I've never seen a segregated staff bathroom before, actually. They're usually not like the public ones with multiple stalls.[/QUOTE] We have two regular bathrooms that were just given the designation of men's/women's. Same features and everything although I wouldn't mind if the men's room had a urinal.
Why are gendered bathrooms necessary at all? Instead of paying twice as much for two separate restrooms, invest a little more than average into one larger restroom with better privacy features (floor to ceiling stalls and stall doors). There, you've eliminated the "terrible controversy" of which bathrooms everybody should use.
If bathrooms are to be segregated/separated at all, it should be based on biological sex, not gender imo. Since you're going to a bathroom specifically to use your biological organs to relieve yourself, it would be logical to base it on that.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;48231881]It's more about the worry of sexual assaults taking place if bathrooms are open to both sexes at the same time.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked there aren't any bathroom bouncers or bathroom security officers in most places to check your gender before you piss, so what is going to stop someone with ill intent from just going into the bathroom anyway? "Oh no, this bathroom isn't meant for my gender, guess I just won't follow that person in and rape them?"
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;48236247]About 4% of the population identifies as LGBT. There's less risk in two people of the same sex having such issues than different sex.[/QUOTE] You know how gay/trans people have to come out of the closet? A lot of them haven't yet.
I like the idea of stalls and urinals being in separate rooms. While we're at it also improve stall privacy. Right now many of them have gaping holes and shit. Just let people go into whatever bathroom they want to. We all crap, we all piss, why do we need so much separation based on something as silly as gender?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48241845]Why are gendered bathrooms necessary at all? Instead of paying twice as much for two separate restrooms, invest a little more than average into one larger restroom with better privacy features (floor to ceiling stalls and stall doors). There, you've eliminated the "terrible controversy" of which bathrooms everybody should use.[/QUOTE] This. It's so easy to make a bathroom that's just a big tiled room with several mini-rooms that serve the same purpose of stalls. Like a room that holds individual mini-bathrooms and has a few sinks in the front. Literally anyone can use it and there's no additional threat of assault because you're in an entirely open area until you enter a toilet room [editline]19th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sonador;48236263]That's where my argument comes into play. Using a camera in a company bathroom? Nope, sorry, I don't care what you identify as, security will watch you pack your things, if you come back you're trespassing and will be arrested, have a nice day![/QUOTE] It's just a bathroom selfie though? People do those everywhere?
[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;48242136]It's just a bathroom selfie though? People do those everywhere?[/QUOTE] Really weak argument to make when trying to fight a corporate policy backed with employee complaints regarding harassing behavior. Insofar as the law goes, that picture's incriminating - if he didn't have the consent of the female in the photo, he's photographed someone in an area where a reasonable person would believe they would have privacy - a violation of their privacy rights. In the US, if she'd complained, he'd be toast.
This thread has left wing circlejerking comparable to fucking tumblr. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why Reply?" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=A Sock Accnt;48242300]This thread has left wing circlejerking comparable to fucking tumblr.[/QUOTE] Not really? What was the point of this post tbh
[QUOTE=Sonador;48242246]Really weak argument to make when trying to fight a corporate policy backed with employee complaints regarding harassing behavior. Insofar as the law goes, that picture's incriminating - if he didn't have the consent of the female in the photo, he's photographed someone in an area where a reasonable person would believe they would have privacy - a violation of their privacy rights. In the US, if she'd complained, he'd be toast.[/QUOTE] Ah, I see what you mean. My only public bathroom experience comes from high school so I guess I've got a skewed idea of how they're actually supposed to work
[QUOTE=A Sock Accnt;48242300]This thread has left wing circlejerking comparable to fucking tumblr. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why Reply?" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Caring about people's rights = Left Wing circlejerk
[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;48242931]Ah, I see what you mean. My only public bathroom experience comes from high school so I guess I've got a skewed idea of how they're actually supposed to work[/QUOTE] Yeah, corporate environments are way different. Think high school rules but you can arbitrarily get expelled on the spot for even the most minor of infractions. In cases like these I really don't mind, though, getting inadvertently caught in some jagoff's selfie after dropping a fat turd definitely isn't very high on my to-do list
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