Millionaire puts up a kickstarter to raise $900 for her daughter to make an RPG with, raises $21000,
389 replies, posted
How is this in any way 'abuse' of the Kickstarter system? It's the people's money, no one's FORCING them to give it away. The article makes it seem like people have no control over who their money goes to...
They raised $21,000? Fantastic, I'm very happy for them. And the next person who does the same thing. And the next person after that! If you feel it's worth donating a few bucks to, then just do it. Christ.
Kickstarter needs to get off their asses and start shutting down projects that violate the rules. In every single case they just wash their hands and take the 5% cut, being a middleman that takes zero responsibility (apart from the basic refund if project fails to get funded). Obviously it's best if they stay out of projects but cases like this are just a bit stupid. On the other hand if they shut it down now, they're likely to get sued by the mom for fraud so there's no pleasing both sides of the argument here.
The problem isn't with the mom or the kickstarter or the girl, it's the people. 20 backers of $100, 5 of $250, 2 of $300 and 3 of $500. Perhaps most of those are her friends and family (well, her mom does seem kinda rich?) but even then, you have to wonder who and why funds this.
The worst part is it's not even over. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up gaining double that amount by the end...
[QUOTE=Sobek-;40021965]How is this in any way 'abuse' of the Kickstarter system? It's the people's money, no one's FORCING them to give it away. The article makes it seem like people have no control over who their money goes to...
They raised $21,000? Fantastic, I'm very happy for them. And the next person who does the same thing. And the next person after that! If you feel it's worth donating a few bucks to, then just do it. Christ.[/QUOTE]
I think most people are complaining it's against the TOS
jesus fuck, if I wanted to go to some camp like that I'd get out and fundraise the old school way, sell candy bars or w/e (at a slight markup) to friends and family and tell them that they were supporting me learning to code or something. It makes sense because you know these people and they would be willing to support your endeavors in life, even if it costs them only a little bit. Most websites for large, expensive "camps" have guidelines on how to raise money like that.
[url]http://www.nylf.org/fundraising/[/url]
all of the recommended methods actually require hard work and providing a project or service (sweets, tutoring, etc)
this person is essentially just "gaming the system" and doing a lot less work (making some fancy logos, and writing some paragraphs) for a lot more gain.
The amount of butthurt in this thread is disturbing.
Clearly the only thing that would make this better is if they took all the money away from the girl and gave it to you, right? Because of all your struggles oh woe is you!
[QUOTE=Murkrow;40021967]Kickstarter needs to get off their asses and start shutting down projects that violate the rules. In every single case they just wash their hands and take the 5% cut, being a middleman that takes zero responsibility (apart from the basic refund if project fails to get funded). Obviously it's best if they stay out of projects but cases like this are just a bit stupid. On the other hand if they shut it down now, they're likely to get sued by the mom for fraud so there's no pleasing both sides of the argument here.
The problem isn't with the mom or the kickstarter or the girl, it's the people. 20 backers of $100, 5 of $250, 2 of $300 and 3 of $500. Perhaps most of those are her friends and family (well, her mom does seem kinda rich?) but even then, you have to wonder who and why funds this.
The worst part is it's not even over. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up gaining double that amount by the end...[/QUOTE]
Why do they need to even abide their own rules if they see something they like?
Tbh you're not an authority on Kickstarter - make something that breaks the rules that they like anyway and you'll slip by unpunished, and why not? This move greatly raises the profile and media attention of Kickstarter - probably bringing hundreds of thousands of new people who become interested in the site, as does any coverage of the 'TOS being broken' or w/e.
It also shows that they're more leniant with what gets funded - it doesn't mean some sweaty neckbeard can go ahead and get funding for a hundred lifetime WoW subscriptions because that won't benefit anyone in any way.
How does funding this girl benefit anyone? Here's how:
It potentially brings 'Development' to a new generation of youth - a youth who has been riddled with Xbox's and Smart TV's (and their web browsers) since the day they were born. Why the fuck would anyone, apart from a select few individuals (with nerdy parents) these days, ever become interested in Game or Web Development, or in-fact acquire the tools and early expertise critical in building the creative knowledge.
Any press relating to this is hugely beneficial, hopefully Kids, and their parents will now realise that games dev isn't out of their reach as they once thought, some market reserved for huge-budget game dev companies who can afford a $100k+ pricetag for a devkit, engine license, before you start even looking into actually coding anything or creating assets.
And that, in turn, means we hopefully have less Call-of-Duty and 'FarmVille' and more Faster Than Light over the next 20-40 years.
The fact that this girl's parents are millionaires is even more excellent. The Kickstarter was obviously to raise the profile and create a media buzz. The money was not important at all, but the fact that this market has been introduced to the current generation of kids is far more impacting.
If only 10 kids became interested in Game Dev as a result, and seriously start working towards becoming developers, then it was worth it - that's 10 potential chances to get the next FTL or Minecraft - but I bet there will be many more.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40022134]
Any press relating to this is hugely beneficial, hopefully Kids, and their parents will now realise that games dev isn't out of their reach as they once thought, some market reserved for huge-budget game dev companies who can afford a $100k+ pricetag for a devkit, engine license, before you start even looking into actually coding anything or creating assets.[/QUOTE]
with tools like scratch and game maker all out there, I'm having it hard to believe that most kids think game development is out of their reach.
Why would kids be interested in games development? maybe because they're interested in games?
also I laughed at this part
[quote]she says as a business person she feels like she's held hostage by developers.[/quote]
I wonder how many developers share that sentiment.
okay, so forgetting all the other questions I have for now, why the fuck do people on kickstarter donate ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE past the requested amount? hell, why on earth is it even [I]allowed[/I] by kickstarter when no stretch goals exist? what on earth is that poor kid going to do with all this extra money she didn't need or ask for?
just what the heck, dude
[video=youtube;qqZ65pUQxyQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqZ65pUQxyQ[/video]
I wouldn't spend shit on a dumb kickstarter like that but this is probably what some people think KS 100% is.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40022170]with tools like scratch and game maker all out there, I'm having it hard to believe that most kids think game development is out of their reach.
Why would kids be interested in games development? maybe because they're interested in games?
[/QUOTE]
Last generation of young people used their dad's PCs and ended up becoming interested in PCs.
This generation of kids, and future generations, have Smart TVs, Handheld's and consoles.
Why? Because PCs are simply expensive and consoles are more convenient.
Consoles are closed platform. The licensing fees are extortionate and the market is dominated by huge corporations. The only reason they offer the licenses is because the PC is still currently a valid platform but I imagine it's popularity is dropping and will drop exponentially as our generation grows older and dies.
If PC died out I doubt console corporations would even sell dev-kits anymore, why would they risk someone sapping the profits from their buddy-buddy developers and distributors with which they have licensing and exclusivity agreements, when they can simply continue to let these development firms be the sole proprietors of what is created.
The less indie developers around, the more Sony, Microsoft and other console manufacturers and big-budget game studios benefit.
I kind of hope this game comes out (spoilers: it won't) because I want to see the awful reviews it'd be given.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40022134]Why do they need to even abide their own rules if they see something they like?
Tbh you're not an authority on Kickstarter - make something that breaks the rules that they like anyway and you'll slip by unpunished, and why not? This move greatly raises the profile and media attention of Kickstarter - probably bringing hundreds of thousands of new people who become interested in the site, as does any coverage of the 'TOS being broken' or w/e.
It also shows that they're more leniant with what gets funded - it doesn't mean some sweaty neckbeard can go ahead and get funding for a hundred lifetime WoW subscriptions because that won't benefit anyone in any way.
How does funding this girl benefit anyone? Here's how:
It potentially brings 'Development' to a new generation of youth - a youth who has been riddled with Xbox's and Smart TV's (and their web browsers) since the day they were born. Why the fuck would anyone, apart from a select few individuals (with nerdy parents) these days, ever become interested in Game or Web Development, or in-fact acquire the tools and early expertise critical in building the creative knowledge.
Any press relating to this is hugely beneficial, hopefully Kids, and their parents will now realise that games dev isn't out of their reach as they once thought, some market reserved for huge-budget game dev companies who can afford a $100k+ pricetag for a devkit, engine license, before you start even looking into actually coding anything or creating assets.
And that, in turn, means we hopefully have less Call-of-Duty and 'FarmVille' and more Faster Than Light over the next 20-40 years.
The fact that this girl's parents are millionaires is even more excellent. The Kickstarter was obviously to raise the profile and create a media buzz. The money was not important at all, but the fact that this market has been introduced to the current generation of kids is far more impacting.
If only 10 kids became interested in Game Dev as a result, and seriously start working towards becoming developers, then it was worth it - that's 10 potential chances to get the next FTL or Minecraft - but I bet there will be many more.[/QUOTE]
Because if you're willing to break your own rules for monetary gain (and in the end, there really isn't any other motivation as far as the company goes - for kickstarter basically just existing and letting funding come in from whatever kickstarter is fine by them) then why have rules in the first place?
I'm not saying that it IS breaking the terms, but there's been several in this thread questioning if it is, which would warrant some checking by the KS staff. I can't know for sure (I did barely a skim of their terms after all) but that's for them to decide.
And as far as development argument goes: You don't need money at all to start game development, only a computer, which is something that most people by now already have (and are pretty much forced to, one way or another). But saying that this kickstarter supports promotion of game development is a bit of a stretch.
In my opinion, it promotes that money is the key to success, which is not always the case, especially with game development. Learning from this case, kids would end up looking for funding before looking for something original (or unoriginal, that fine too) to actually develop. And not even for something specific: this project is just an "RPG game". That is ALL that is known about this game. It's not about game development, it's about a popularity contest, and most young aspiring developers [B][U]WILL FAIL[/U][/B] in that regard. If kids start doing kickstarters to just learn game development, we'll end up with none of them funded and a lot of the kids disappointed, ending up with them leaving game development as a whole.
Yes, game development (and especially programming on its own) should be promoted for kids, but this is not the way to do it. It's not doing game development a favor, rather the opposite. If parents end up seeing this and thinking that for game development you NEED money (which is horribly far from the truth), this won't bring anything good.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40022390]Last generation of young people used their dad's PCs and ended up becoming interested in PCs.
This generation of kids, and future generations, have Smart TVs, Handheld's and consoles.
Why? Because PCs are simply expensive and consoles are more convenient.
Consoles are closed platform. The licensing fees are extortionate and the market is dominated by huge corporations. The only reason they offer the licenses is because the PC is still currently a valid platform but I imagine it's popularity is dropping and will drop exponentially as our generation grows older and dies.
If PC died out I doubt console corporations would even sell dev-kits anymore, why would they risk someone sapping the profits from their buddy-buddy developers and distributors with which they have licensing and exclusivity agreements, when they can simply continue to let these development firms be the sole proprietors of what is created.
The less indie developers around, the more Sony, Microsoft and other console manufacturers and big-budget game studios benefit.[/QUOTE]
Except PC's aren't "Expensive" at all and PC won't "Die out" :v:
the whole idea of kickstarters is to give people with no money at all a chance to realize their dreams, this is just greedy bullshit what's next a kickstarter to fund the girl's college?
This is dumb, like a lot of things on kickstarter
I do believe Kickstarter itself shouldn't take any responsibility for this, its merely a medium like Ebay. And even then its hard to implement a "Buyer's Protection" on Kickstarter.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40022390]Last generation of young people used their dad's PCs and ended up becoming interested in PCs.
This generation of kids, and future generations, have Smart TVs, Handheld's and consoles.
Why? Because PCs are simply expensive and consoles are more convenient.
Consoles are closed platform. The licensing fees are extortionate and the market is dominated by huge corporations. The only reason they offer the licenses is because the PC is still currently a valid platform but I imagine it's popularity is dropping and will drop exponentially as our generation grows older and dies.
If PC died out I doubt console corporations would even sell dev-kits anymore, why would they risk someone sapping the profits from their buddy-buddy developers and distributors with which they have licensing and exclusivity agreements, when they can simply continue to let these development firms be the sole proprietors of what is created.
The less indie developers around, the more Sony, Microsoft and other console manufacturers and big-budget game studios benefit.[/QUOTE]
... yet for some reason indie developers are growing, minecraft is extremely popular (when I ask other friends what PC games they play, minecraft is usually the only answer). I think that the market is more hospitable for people who want to develop their own games right now than at any other time, especially with steam greenlight and w/e as a means of publishing, indie bundles as way of promotion, etc.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;40022517]Because if you're willing to break your own rules for monetary gain (and in the end, there really isn't any other motivation as far as the company goes - for kickstarter basically just existing and letting funding come in from whatever kickstarter is fine by them) then why have rules in the first place?
I'm not saying that it IS breaking the terms, but there's been several in this thread questioning if it is, which would warrant some checking by the KS staff. I can't know for sure (I did barely a skim of their terms after all) but that's for them to decide.[/QUOTE]
When you make tons of money anyway, 5% of $21k isn't exactly 'monetary gain' is it? It's pittance. Which leads me to believe this purely for the other benefits to the indie game/web development industry. Something kickstarter most certainly is involved in.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;40022517]And as far as development argument goes: You don't need money at all to start game development, only a computer, which is something that most people by now already have (and are pretty much forced to, one way or another). But saying that this kickstarter supports promotion of game development is a bit of a stretch.[/QUOTE]
It promotes it because it raises Kickstarter's profile (via mass media) and brings more people into the site - and in doing so, raises the potential funding available to all the independent game projects that are listed.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;40022517]In my opinion, it promotes that money is the key to success, which is not always the case, especially with game development. Learning from this case, kids would end up looking for funding before looking for something original (or unoriginal, that fine too) to actually develop. And not even for something specific: this project is just an "RPG game". That is ALL that is known about this game. It's not about game development, it's about a popularity contest, and most young aspiring developers [B][U]WILL FAIL[/U][/B] in that regard. If kids start doing kickstarters to just learn game development, we'll end up with none of them funded and a lot of the kids disappointed, ending up with them leaving game development as a whole.
Yes, game development (and especially programming on its own) should be promoted for kids, but this is not the way to do it. It's not doing game development a favor, rather the opposite. If parents end up seeing this and thinking that for game development you NEED money (which is horribly far from the truth), this won't bring anything good.[/QUOTE]
It does take money to live in today's society, and indeed to launch a game.
1. Rent paid whilst game is being developed.
2. Food bills paid whilst game is being developed.
3. Initial cost of PC.
4. Electricity bill for PC.
5. Software cost for Windows/ Photoshop/ 3DSmax/ etc.
6. Internet bill.
7. Misc costs i.e. living/ rainy-day funds/ entertainment cost.
All of this needs to be factored in for the time you are [b]learning to make the game[/b], as well as the time spent when you are [b]actually making it[/b]
Of course if you're living in your parent's house, none of this is an issue.
[editline]24th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40022621]... yet for some reason indie developers are growing, minecraft is extremely popular (when I ask other friends what PC games they play, minecraft is usually the only answer). I think that the market is more hospitable for people who want to develop their own games right now than at any other time, especially with steam greenlight and w/e as a means of publishing, indie bundles as way of promotion, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yes, all of these things are beneficial to the growth of PC gaming and indie development.
As is this Kickstarter.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;40022696]It does take money to live in today's society, and indeed to launch a game.
1. Rent paid whilst game is being developed.
2. Food bills paid whilst game is being developed.
3. Initial cost of PC.
4. Electricity bill for PC.
5. Software cost for Windows/ Photoshop/ 3DSmax/ etc.
6. Internet bill.
7. Misc costs i.e. living/ rainy-day funds/ entertainment cost.
[/QUOTE]
I think what many aspiring indie game developers don't grasp is that you shouldn't be treating your game development as a full-time or even part-time job, but you should have it solely as a hobby while working a soul-crushing, reliable job to slowly pay for everything in the meantime. Consider any money you make off your games a bonus from your real job. It is a more bleak way to view things, but it is built on a more solid foundation of expectation, instead of hoping to make it big all at once with a kickstarter or two.
[QUOTE=Daniel M;40020967]The reason this pisses me off is I struggled to find funding for my game that I have worked my ass off for years on end, barely making over the absolute minimum I could ask for and finish the project, meanwhile these people with actual money are asking for 10x the amount I asked for and then they get it within a couple hours, and they get another ten times the amount ON TOP of what they asked for.
[i]It's bullshit.[/i][/QUOTE]
Can we please see your game, Daniel? I am genuinely curious.
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;40022460]I kind of hope this game comes out (spoilers: it won't) because I want to see the awful reviews it'd be given.[/QUOTE]
You know no one will care about the game itself even if they actually do make it. The only reason people are funding this is because they think they're being this girl's heroes by helping her "prove her brothers wrong" even if she makes the shittiest game in the universe.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;40022791]She's a nine year old who's mom is a millionaire. Why can't she just ask her mom for the money?[/QUOTE]
Maybe her mother is teaching her some stuff about how business works?
[QUOTE=BradenFase;40023060][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mi5yti3.png[/IMG]
Wow[/QUOTE]
legit? that's a ToS violation right there (spamming)
[QUOTE=BradenFase;40023060][img]http://i.imgur.com/mi5yti3.png[/img]
Wow[/QUOTE]
That's a lot of spam for nine hundred bucks.
That's not how business works at all
That's how internet scams work.
good, as long as idiot feminist's fund it, im happy.
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;40020953]why do people get mad about what other people do with their money?
Most people are probably just mad they can't think of a kick starter like that for themselves[/QUOTE]
I'm kinda mad because this is a millionaire wanting to raise money for her child, instead of just giving the child her money. Some people work for it and actually try, meanwhile a millionaire is making her child raise money. I don't know if this makes sense or is just stupid, but it's my opinion.
Was I the only one who when looking at the title thought her daughter wanted to make a RPG (rocket propelled grenade launcher) ?
I don't see how running a kickstarter would teach a child anything other than you can get free support if you have something that people are interested in. The parent should've just paid for it themself. A 9 year old doesn't have to worry about the business world yet. There are people who really could use that money to get their business life started.
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