• Mariupol being Indiscriminately Shelled: 21 Dead and 60 Wounded
    63 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47001787]I thought CNN, BBC and all of Ukrainian press only reports on rebels cowardly tactics. Both sides are fighting information wars and I think Ukrainians are better at it because we always hear how cruel the rebels are and "they don't care who they kill". That's the main reason the automatic assumtion about this Mariupol bombing is that rebels did it while no facts point at it.[/QUOTE] I meant Russian media, and the Rebels admitted it. I follow rebel groups on social media, they straight up admitted they started an attack on Mariupol. They didn't admit they killed civilians, that would be bad PR.
Filmed near the buildings in OP: [video=youtube;ISnzgvOpWL0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISnzgvOpWL0[/video] Edit: Zakharchenko claimed responsibility, he's protecting those civilians real good.
[quote]The SMM conducted a crater analysis and its initial assessment showed that the impacts were caused by Grad and Uragan rockets. According to the impact analysis, the Grad rockets originated from a north-easterly direction, in the area of Oktyabr (19 km north-east of Olimpiiska Street), and the Uragan rockets from an easterly direction, in the area of Zaichenko (15 km east of Olimpiiska Street), both controlled by the “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”).[/quote] [URL="http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/136061"]OSCE report[/URL] The russians did it, so the retarded argument about the Ukrainian army shelling it's own city can stop now.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;47001513]This is legitimately the most retarded conflict in modern times. I feel like both sides should be sent some sort of trophy.[/QUOTE] eh, bokohoran kinda takes the cake, at least from 2014, which was a very tight race to see who could be the most suicidal.
I think the UN missed its chance to do something about this during that nominal ceasefire. Without the UN involved, I have a hard time believing the Ukrainians will be able to stop the Russians from acquiring even more territory.
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;47003415]I think the UN missed its chance to do something about this during that nominal ceasefire. Without the UN involved, I have a hard time believing the Ukrainians will be able to stop the Russians from acquiring even more territory.[/QUOTE] Oh my god can we stop with "Russians" already? OSCE still hasn't found any Russian military within Ukraine, Donbass is still not part of Russia (and is not going to be or at least Putin says so). Rebels are supported by Russia, yeah, but they are mostly ukrainian people. Russia couldn't give less fucks about land, Russia has too much of it tbh.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003488]Oh my god can we stop with "Russians" already? OSCE still hasn't found any Russian military within Ukraine, Donbass is still not part of Russia (and is not going to be or at least Putin says so). Rebels are supported by Russia, yeah, but they are mostly ukrainian people. Russia couldn't give less fucks about land, Russia has too much of it tbh.[/QUOTE] Brainwashed to the max. Let's just ignore all those russian officers killed in Ukraine, all the gear the separatists have suddenly appearing out of thin air, videos of so many convoys going to Ukraine and so much other stuff. Did you finish your daily 10 bows to Putin today? You should go back to those
[QUOTE=Swineflu;47003519]Brainwashed to the max. Let's just ignore all those russian officers killed in Ukraine, all the gear the separatists have suddenly appearing out of thin air, videos of so many convoys going to Ukraine and so much other stuff. Did you finish your daily 10 bows to Putin today? You should go back to those[/QUOTE] I literally said rebels are supported by Russia. But it's a proxy war for a reason, you know. The reason is that if it wasn't proxy there would be no Ukraine already.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003488]Russia couldn't give less fucks about land[/QUOTE] Do you hear that echo? What's it saying? *crimea -mea -mea -ea -a* [editline]24th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003556]I literally said rebels are supported by Russia. But it's a proxy war for a reason, you know. The reason is that if it wasn't proxy there would be no Ukraine already.[/QUOTE] Russia won't declare war on Ukraine just like that and without russian support, the rebels wouldn't be this dangerous, so I really don't understand this statement of "there would be no Ukraine already" because everyone knows that's bullshit [editline]24th January 2015[/editline] You know what there would be? An Ukraine in peace and collaboration with other EU countries
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003556]I literally said rebels are supported by Russia. But it's a proxy war for a reason, you know. The reason is that if it wasn't proxy there would be no Ukraine already.[/QUOTE] Russian soldiers and russian-operated equipment are directly involved in the fighting, fuck your proxy war bull
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003488]Oh my god can we stop with "Russians" already?[/QUOTE] Why, they full on are supporting this. [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003488][b]OSCE still hasn't found any Russian military within Ukraine, Donbass is still not part of Russia (and is not going to be or at least Putin says so). Rebels are supported by Russia, yeah, but they are mostly ukrainian people.[/b] [/QUOTE] I want you to look at a series of images for me, alright? [img]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=228857&d=1420362598[/img] What do you see?
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47003624]Why, they full on are supporting this. I want you to look at a series of images for me, alright? [img]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=228857&d=1420362598[/img] What do you see?[/QUOTE] Any proof these are Russian soldiers?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47003670]Any proof these are Russian soldiers?[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=228855&d=1420362536[/img] Look at the chopper in the background. Matches the profile of KA-50 attack helicopters operated by Russia. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50[/url]
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7-NHniCMAAbxXf.png[/img]
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47003684][img]http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=228855&d=1420362536[/img] Look at the chopper in the background. Matches the profile of KA-50 attack helicopters operated by Russia. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50[/url][/QUOTE] Russian tech does not really prove it is Russia who is operating it. You can't exactly jump to "yeah ruskis did it" without actual proof.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47003705]Russian tech does not really prove it is Russia who is operating it. You can't exactly jump to "yeah ruskis did it" without actual proof.[/QUOTE] Taking 5 seconds to skim the Wikipedia article to understand that since 1996 they have only been produced for the Russian air force and that's it. Come on.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47003705]Russian tech does not really prove it is Russia who is operating it. You can't exactly jump to "yeah ruskis did it" without actual proof.[/QUOTE] The proof has been posted a lot. ID cards, passports and images that shouldn't of been posted. There have been vehicles that have been ID'ed as Russian property.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;47003703][img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7-NHniCMAAbxXf.png[/img][/QUOTE] No, that's the flag of Donbass/Kivoyrog(sp?). It's like the Russian tricolor but switch white with black. Edit: On second look... I actually don't know now... Edit2: Yeah it's the russian tricolor. It looked like it had a black stripe above the white, and I thought the white was blue...
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47003737]No, that's the flag of Donbass/Kivoyrog(sp?). It's like the Russian tricolor but switch white with black. Edit: On second look... I actually don't know now...[/QUOTE] You can obviously see WHITE, BLUE and RED
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003488]Oh my god can we stop with "Russians" already? OSCE still hasn't found any Russian military within Ukraine, Donbass is still not part of Russia (and is not going to be or at least Putin says so). Rebels are supported by Russia, yeah, but they are mostly ukrainian people. Russia couldn't give less fucks about land, Russia has too much of it tbh.[/QUOTE] Don't pretend that Russian annexation isn't the end game of all of this. Do you really think the "Donetsk People's Republic" exists for any reason other than to administer a fixed vote once they have fill control of the region? Putin is counting on it; that's why the convoys have been nonstop. Oh yeah, Putin says it won't be a part of Russia, but who is he to say no when all those patriotic ethnic Russians put in a 90%+ vote to join the motherland?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47003488]Oh my god can we stop with "Russians" already? OSCE still hasn't found any Russian military within Ukraine, Donbass is still not part of Russia (and is not going to be or at least Putin says so). Rebels are supported by Russia, yeah, but they are mostly ukrainian people. Russia couldn't give less fucks about land, Russia has too much of it tbh.[/QUOTE] Explain the BPM-97's found in Luhansk. The Rebels posted videos of them training, and the vehicles were first seen there, before later showing up in other areas. [url]https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/01/03/did-russia-send-a-new-batch-of-military-vehicles-to-separatists-controlled-ukraine/[/url]
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;47003952]Don't pretend that Russian annexation isn't the end game of all of this. Do you really think the "Donetsk People's Republic" exists for any reason other than to administer a fixed vote once they have fill control of the region? Putin is counting on it; that's why the convoys have been nonstop. Oh yeah, Putin says it won't be a part of Russia, but who is he to say no when all those patriotic ethnic Russians put in a 90%+ vote to join the motherland?[/QUOTE] It will most luckily be a satelite state if rebels hold out. But it will not be annexed. Russia is already the largest country on earth, Russia has enough land. Crimea was acquired for it's military significance. Even then the backfire was so heavy on our budget that no one in their mind (yes Putin is not crazy) will accept DNR/LNR. Simply because Donbass is huge, [b]huge[/b]. It's akin to accepting a European country into Russia, minus the infrastructure. Economical suicide, you won't even need any sanctions to bring Russia to complete default if Russia has to feed Donbass too. And I really believe DNR/LNR if united can be a proper functioning separate state. In fact there already was a vote to join Russia, it was something like 85% in favor of it. But Putin said "thanks guys, but no", it caused an outrage from DNR population too because people believed good Putin is gonna come and protect them, but he didn't.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47006471] And I really believe DNR/LNR if united can be a proper functioning separate state. In fact there already was a vote to join Russia, it was something like [B]146%[/B] in favor of it. But Putin said "thanks guys, but no", it caused an outrage from DNR population too because people believed good Putin is gonna come and protect them, but he didn't.[/QUOTE] ftfy
only russian posters on facepunch would attempt to argue for a difference between 'assaulting a city' and shelling a city
RIDF is out full swing today i see.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;47003703][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7-NHniCMAAbxXf.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] It's obvious that there are regular russian soldiers fighting on the rebels's side, and it's obvious that most of their equipement is provided by russia. But it's obvious because of some high-quality videos made by random witnesses and satellite shots containing recognizable landmarks, and also because of simple logic. Blurry photos of people wearing russian insignias/flags or that picture of random guys walking with a helicopter on the background don't prove much. Rebels can easily put on themselves whatever insigia they want, and giving them advanced helicopters is a waste of money, not to mention that it's just dumb. Also, it's just bugging me how dumb must rebels be to post all these photos of themselves with recognizable russian equipement on the background again and again. I know they are unprofessional, but you must be a complete idiot to do this.
[QUOTE=antianan;47006709]Blurry photos of people wearing russian insignias/flags or [b]that picture of random guys walking with a helicopter on the background don't prove much.[/b] Rebels can easily put on themselves whatever insigia they want, and giving them advanced helicopters is a waste of money, not to mention that it's just dumb.[/QUOTE] Other then they were on Russian territory receiving training. These were pictures taken before the August assault on Novoazovsk and Mariupol. The fact that "separatists" are training in a Russian facility alone is enough to be pissed to all living shit. Whats also to say that the separatists are from Ukraine and not Russian conscripts pressured into becoming enlisted men so they can technically serve outside the borders of Russia?
Russians/separatists are executing POWs, this inaction of the west can't go on for long [url]https://twitter.com/noclador/status/559336624786792448[/url]
[QUOTE=Swineflu;47007470]Russians/separatists are executing POWs, this inaction of the west can't go on for long [url]https://twitter.com/noclador/status/559336624786792448[/url][/QUOTE] Just as bad. [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6fc_1422203982[/url]
I wish more news stations would talk about this
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