[QUOTE=wystan;50406739]I think so, he isn't perfect but I certainly think he was and is the best option out of all the candidates. I think the skills required to achieve what he has will translate well to politics and running a country. I'd rather take a chance on Trump than with Hillary or Sanders.[/QUOTE]
I think you have to pick and choose sets of values of each candidate you like and don't like which isn't a new concept, given that it's almost always been a choice of 2-3 individuals. You're not likely to agree on everything with any one particular candidate. Trump and Bernie have two totally different kinds of values but I can understand why someone would see an either/or either way. But they're all flawed in some way or another.
Trump's biggest problem is he's a bit loud mouthed, which can be argued as a good thing, but he also says plenty of ignorant things and I can sort of understand a fear (the vaccinated kid story was a big deal) but I think ultimately some of the worse things, super important things like vaccine bs won't pass even if he wins.
Bernie's primary flaw I think is his loudest supporters are routinely seen being dumb as fuck on video, such as the vids of "Carl the cuck" rally thing where they couldn't carry a logical or sophisticated argument about trump vs bernie against a single man. "Youure a fukken white male" "ur old lol old old old" etc, and that video of the students for trump being occupied by SJW shits. I feel like those kinds of supporters are the most responsible for people switching from Bernie to Trump. There's also the glaring issue my left leaning friend (pro-Bernie, think he introduced me when I decided to learn about the election candidates) brought up that he's getting murdered in the polls and primaries because a lot of people in his camp buy into the "it's all the government man, it's all corrupt, votes don't matter dude" bullshit.
Then Hillary's problem is she's a massive crook and is probably headed to prison if she doesn't win. The 13 mins of footage of her denying shit and subsequent film of proof it's bullshit doesn't help either. Neither does the flip flopping and 20+ years of reputation her and her husband have racked up.
I'm sure Bernie isn't actually flawless, but I think the most notable flaws aren't his fault directly.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50406813]I think you have to pick and choose sets of values of each candidate you like and don't like which isn't a new concept, given that it's almost always been a choice of 2-3 individuals. You're not likely to agree on everything with any one particular candidate. Trump and Bernie have two totally different kinds of values but I can understand why someone would see an either/or either way. But they're all flawed in some way or another.
Trump's biggest problem is he's a bit loud mouthed, which can be argued as a good thing, but he also says plenty of ignorant things and I can sort of understand a fear (the vaccinated kid story was a big deal) but I think ultimately some of the worse things, super important things like vaccine bs won't pass even if he wins.
Bernie's primary flaw I think is his loudest supporters are routinely seen being dumb as fuck on video, such as the vids of "Carl the cuck" rally thing where they couldn't carry a logical or sophisticated argument about trump vs bernie against a single man. "Youure a fukken white male" "ur old lol old old old" etc, and that video of the students for trump being occupied by SJW shits. I feel like those kinds of supporters are the most responsible for people switching from Bernie to Trump. There's also the glaring issue my left leaning friend (pro-Bernie, think he introduced me when I decided to learn about the election candidates) brought up that he's getting murdered in the polls and primaries because a lot of people in his camp buy into the "it's all the government man, it's all corrupt, votes don't matter dude" bullshit.
Then Hillary's problem is she's a massive crook and is probably headed to prison if she doesn't win. The 13 mins of footage of her denying shit and subsequent film of proof it's bullshit doesn't help either. Neither does the flip flopping and 20+ years of reputation her and her husband have racked up.
I'm sure Bernie isn't actually flawless, but I think the most notable flaws aren't his fault directly.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you entirely. Trump's perhaps most off putting characteristic is his abrasiveness and I can completely understand why that deters most people, while it may be refreshing and appealing to some. With Sanders and his supporters, I have always vehemently disagreed with his policies and ideas, but I at least respected his consistency. But his supporters have absolutely made me dislike the guy more just because of the type of people that rally around him. Too be fair, I'm sure the other camp might feel the same way about Trump supporters.
Hillary though, yea I see no redeeming factors honestly.
It's not very refreshing and appealing to me when a presidential candidate spouts ignorant nonsense that's going to be detrimental to an entire country if not [I]the world[/I]
[QUOTE=Recurracy;50406917]It's not very refreshing and appealing to me when a presidential candidate spouts ignorant nonsense that's going to be detrimental to an entire country if not [I]the world[/I][/QUOTE]
I feel I should clarify what people find refreshing because I can see where you're coming from. It's more a candidate that doesn't tread lightly in attempts to please everybody and more or less spits in the face of the electoral establishment that citizens on both sides are continually feeling less represented by, similar to Sanders, the only difference is that Trump is winning. Him (as well as Sanders), aren't really bought out by large donations and corporations and that really appeals to people.
[QUOTE=wystan;50406907]I agree with you entirely. Trump's perhaps most off putting characteristic is his abrasiveness and I can completely understand why that deters most people, while it may be refreshing and appealing to some. With Sanders and his supporters, I have always vehemently disagreed with his policies and ideas, but I at least respected his consistency. But his supporters have absolutely made me dislike the guy more just because of the type of people that rally around him. Too be fair, I'm sure the other camp might feel the same way about Trump supporters.
Hillary though, yea I see no redeeming factors honestly.[/QUOTE]
No, his most off putting characteristics are most of his policies and stances on issues ever anywhere.
Need I remind you of his torture ideas? oh wait you know exactly lmao
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50407049]No, his most off putting characteristics are most of his policies and stances on issues ever anywhere.
Need I remind you of his torture ideas? oh wait you know exactly lmao[/QUOTE]
Wicked zinger dude way to tell me my opinions and views again
[QUOTE=wystan;50407116]Wicked zinger dude way to tell me my opinions and views again[/QUOTE]
Considering you've worn your love of torturing people despite everything everyone has ever told you on your sleeve, I'm not losing any morality points for presuming your mind hasn't changed.
[QUOTE=wystan;50406945]I feel I should clarify what people find refreshing because I can see where you're coming from. It's more a candidate that doesn't tread lightly in attempts to please everybody and more or less spits in the face of the electoral establishment that citizens on both sides are continually feeling less represented by, similar to Sanders, the only difference is that Trump is winning. Him (as well as Sanders), aren't really bought out by large donations and corporations and that really appeals to people.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between someone who says what's on their mind without putting it through the good ol' political correctness filter while knowing what they're talking about and someone who doesn't know about the weight their words hold.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50406124]Doesn't Hillary avoid debates like the plague, from anyone? If you actually read his statement it doesn't seem "cowardly" like the conclusion everyone is jumping to based off the title. He's basically saying that Bernie has no chance to compete with him so a debate would ultimately be pointless. He's not exactly wrong, I'll be surprised if Bernie suddenly makes it into the general election. If that does happen this debate would be back on. He says "first place runner, [b]whoever that may be[/b]"
Its a shame. We'll hopefully see something about this in the future. Hillary vs Trump won't be as even a debate.
[editline]28th May 2016[/editline]
I mean, trump is 100% the republican candidate. The democratic is tbd. Putting this off till it can be an actual presidential debate isn't that unreasonable to me, as much as I wanna see this[/QUOTE]
I'm having trouble understanding this argument.
I thought the main point of the debate was to raise money for charity?
I'm sure Trump knew Sanders probably wasn't going to get the nomination when he agreed to the debate.
[QUOTE=Jeezy;50407783]I'm having trouble understanding this argument.
I thought the main point of the debate was to [B]raise money for charity[/B]?
I'm sure Trump knew Sanders probably wasn't going to get the nomination when he agreed to the debate.[/QUOTE]
Trump then immediatly said That Bernie himself had to get the money himself not the television stations.
[QUOTE=wystan;50406739]I think so, he isn't perfect but I certainly think he was and is the best option out of all the candidates. I think [B]the skills required to achieve what[/B] he has will translate well to politics and running a country. I'd rather take a chance on Trump than with Hillary or Sanders.[/QUOTE]
Lol yeah the skills in shitty investing and bankruptcy. And speaking of that, another Trump Tower in Toronto was recently put on sale.
Beetle put it perfectly. Different candidates have different flaws that are weighed out by all individuals. Trump's flaw is being a loudmouthed fuck who spouts off with stupid shit. Bernie's flaw is his broken idea of wealth redistribution and government intervention. Hillary's is her corruption and lying.
I weigh the economic benefits of a Trump presidency over the consistency and social progress of a Bernie presidency. Other people may see it differently.
Trump would have been an absolute idiot to do this debate. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Also, TYT are a joke.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50408008]Trump then immediatly said That Bernie himself had to get the money himself not the television stations.[/QUOTE]
Where's the source on this? From my understanding, he said the networks could do it. But I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50408537]Trump would have been an absolute idiot to do this debate. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Also, TYT are a joke.[/QUOTE]
which is why he agreed to do it multiple times if his conditions were met, then pulled out once his conditions were met
[QUOTE=wystan;50407116]Wicked zinger dude way to tell me my opinions and views again[/QUOTE]
Torture is beautiful am I right
you say the darndest things.
[QUOTE=CabinetSpace;50408541]That's some pretty good mental gymnastics to try to convince yourself that Trump looks anything other than weak by backing out of a debate. I thought he was supposed to be the tough guy in all of this?[/QUOTE]
Uh... I'm saying Trump is fucking weak because of this shit he did to back out of it.
Trump could steal Bernie supporters from Hillary if he played it right and they trashed Hillary. Bernie would just go senile and ramble about the poor though. Would honestly have a shot at stealing Trump supporters.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50408550]which is why he agreed to do it multiple times if his conditions were met, then pulled out once his conditions were met[/QUOTE]
He won't do it no matter what. If the conditions are met, then he'll just come up with some other excuse. Since when does anyone take Trump's words at face value?
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50408567]Trump could steal Bernie supporters from Hillary if he played it right and they trashed Hillary. Bernie would just go senile and ramble about the poor though. Would honestly have a shot at stealing Trump supporters.[/QUOTE]
yeah man pfft
fucking bernie talking about the poor and other actual issues and not gossiping about his political opponents
it's like he doesn't even know this is a reality TV show
[editline]28th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;50408573]He won't do it no matter what. If the conditions are met, then he'll just come up with some other excuse. Since when does anyone take Trump's words at face value?[/QUOTE]
I'm saying if Trump would be an idiot to accept it, then he's an idiot for saying he'd accept it in the first place
I think we're in agreement on that though
[QUOTE=sgman91;50408537]Trump would have been an absolute idiot to do this debate. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Also, TYT are a joke.[/QUOTE]
TYT has a fucking heavy Bernie Bias. 538 did a recent thing where it was discovered, that Bernie was bringing in [B]Democratic-leaning[/B] Independants not true independants which he only fares about 1% higher than Clinton. TYT then basically called it a hatchet job. and did a response video
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50408580]yeah man pfft
fucking bernie talking about the poor and other actual issues and not gossiping about his political opponents
it's like he doesn't even know this is a reality TV show
[editline]28th May 2016[/editline]
I'm saying if Trump would be an idiot to accept it, then he's an idiot for saying he'd accept it in the first place
I think we're in agreement on that though[/QUOTE]
Bernie just spews the same 5 statements he has on poverty and demands government pay for social programs. That's the extent of his debates. He deflects questions on other things and says "lets get back to the issues." then just repeats his five statements again. Bernie is consistent but not at all well-rounded.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50408664]Bernie just spews the same 5 statements he has on poverty and demands government pay for social programs. That's the extent of his debates. He deflects questions on other things and says "lets get back to the issues." then just repeats his five statements again. Bernie is consistent but not at all well-rounded.[/QUOTE]
it's almost like income inequality, climate change, and healthcare are a big deal
what, should he stop talking about those and instead go along with Trump on a tirade about how terrible Hillary Clinton is? I mean, why discuss policy and present solutions when you can just shit talk people and throw tantrums all day
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50404171]Yeah, I can't imagine voting for him as president.[/QUOTE]
you cant vote
Okay... um... is Washington examiner a legitimate news source, because I might know where that money might have gone, [URL="http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-camp-concedes-its-low-on-money/article/2592501"]Donald Trump Campaign is Broke[/URL]
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50408664]Bernie just spews the same 5 statements he has on poverty and demands government pay for social programs. That's the extent of his debates. He deflects questions on other things and says "lets get back to the issues." then just repeats his five statements again. Bernie is consistent but not at all well-rounded.[/QUOTE]
And Trump doesn't do the same thing? When things aren't going his way he just starts talking about his damn wall and immigration policies to rile up his supporters.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50408580]I'm saying if Trump would be an idiot to accept it, then he's an idiot for saying he'd accept it in the first place
I think we're in agreement on that though[/QUOTE]
First of all, he made a side comment about it during an interview. It wasn't like some campaign attempt to get a debate with Bernie. Secondly, I'm sure he had no intention of doing it from the beginning. It makes him look like the better man when compared to Clinton, who never wants to debate Bernie. It also works to bring him more media attention. I'm sure he knew from the beginning that there were plenty of excuses to make that would push the blame of never doing the debate off of him. It was a stunt and nothing more. Like I said before, he has nothing to gain from doing the debate, but plenty of gain from making it seem like he would be willing to do it.
I really think people underestimate him as an idiot. I think he's totally self-absorbed, amoral, conniving, and scummy in just about every way, but I really don't think he's an idiot.
[QUOTE=-Chief-;50409010]And Trump doesn't do the same thing? When things aren't going his way he just starts talking about his damn wall and immigration policies to rile up his supporters.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Trump does the exact same thing. I agree with Trump's economic plans though, so I'll settle for him rambling about dumb shit.
[editline]28th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50408786]it's almost like income inequality, climate change, and healthcare are a big deal
what, should he stop talking about those and instead go along with Trump on a tirade about how terrible Hillary Clinton is? I mean, why discuss policy and present solutions when you can just shit talk people and throw tantrums all day[/QUOTE]
That's odd. Thought I responded. My bad. Income inequality isn't fixed by a 50% tax on the middle class. Bernie doesn't like to talk about that one much.
Climate change is a joke if you're poor and unable to find a job. The economy is more important. Let companies exhaust natural resources for financial gain until we run out and switch to green energy.
Healthcare issues should be handled through Supreme Court mandating rules to insurance providers so they must provide adequate care without the loopholes and bullshit. Don't create government healthcare and try to compete with the free market. It fails.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50410118]Yes. Trump does the exact same thing. I agree with Trump's economic plans though, so I'll settle for him rambling about dumb shit.[/QUOTE]
You agree with plans that enrich the 1% and JUST the 1%? Do you like to be punished or something
[editline]28th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;50410118]
That's odd. Thought I responded. My bad. Income inequality isn't fixed by a 50% tax on the middle class. Bernie doesn't like to talk about that one much. [/QUOTE]
Where's this blatant lie coming from?
[QUOTE]Climate change is a joke if you're poor and unable to find a job. The economy is more important. Let companies exhaust natural resources for financial gain until we run out and switch to green energy.[/QUOTE]
No it isn't. I can't make you see the importance of the environment, but the very fact that we are changing the environment at a landmark pace that the geological record shows rarely, if ever happens, is making it sure that "Just keep going til we run out" is a sure fire stratagey for our own demises.
[QUOTE]Healthcare issues should be handled through Supreme Court mandating rules to insurance providers so they must provide adequate care without the loopholes and bullshit. Don't create government healthcare and try to compete with the free market. It fails.[/QUOTE]
No, it doesn't. Corruption exists in private, and public institutions. You're naive to think it's just public.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50410143]You agree with plans that enrich the 1% and JUST the 1%? Do you like to be punished or something
[editline]28th May 2016[/editline]
Where's this blatant lie coming from?
No it isn't. I can't make you see the importance of the environment, but the very fact that we are changing the environment at a landmark pace that the geological record shows rarely, if ever happens, is making it sure that "Just keep going til we run out" is a sure fire stratagey for our own demises.
No, it doesn't. Corruption exists in private, and public institutions. You're naive to think it's just public.[/QUOTE]
I agree with plans that have people making less than 30k a year paying no income tax. If it means the rich pay 25% taxes I do not give a shit. Taxing the rich sends money and jobs over seas.
Bernie's tax plan. People making 18-75k a year pay 40% in effective tax rates.
Our own demise is valuing the environment over the wealth and well-being of our own people. Government regulation will not save the environment. Individual entrepreneurs adopting green energy will.
Of course there is corruption in both. One is still better than the other. Public healthcare is ineffective and too costly.
[IMG]https://fee.org/media/13527/rates.png?width:%20100%;%20height:auto[/IMG]
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