Methoxetamine (and similar substances) to be made Class B substance in the UK without reason or logi - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rocksalt;38300315]Right fuck this, you can indeed see the general effects of a drug when you look at it's structure, it's not a particularly difficult task to theorise the effects of a drug, all you do are check compounds with similar structure, functional groups and chirality as well as checking the effects of isomers of those compounds. This and studies are done, I don't get why this is even being debated, both methods are used because it's simple good science, while you can sit and pour over a compound and similar compounds you could get some unexpected effects so you perform both human trials and chemical analysis. And can we keep the whole "GUBMINT PROPAHGANDAH!" bullshit out of this?[/QUOTE] Yes you can see the general effects of a drug by looking at its structure, [B]BUT WHAT ABOUT ITS STRUCTURE MAKES IT SO HARMFUL[/B]?? You are doing the same thing as Xenocidebot and talking out of your ass. I just argued that the structure of MXE in fact implied that it is far [B]LESS [/B]dangerous than any other dissociatives, and then you come here and say "wow man just check the structure is dangrus lol noob".

[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;38300377]Yes you can see the general effects of a drug by looking at its structure, [B]BUT WHAT ABOUT ITS STRUCTURE MAKES IT SO HARMFUL[/B]?? You are doing the same thing as Xenocidebot and talking out of your ass. I just argued that the structure of MXE in fact implied that it is far [B]LESS [/B]dangerous than any other dissociatives, and then you come here and say "wow man just check the structure is dangrus lol noob".[/QUOTE] I never said that this particular compound was dangerous, but because it's a new compound that's not been heavily researched so no ones particularly sure, but with my 2 years of phenomenal forensics studying at uni I would have to say that Benzene ring doesn't look too good.

[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;38300248]Words fall from your mouth like shit from ass. Please tell me what in its chemical structure points towards it being especially harmful at moderate usage? It seems to me you are using big words that you know little about to belittle others and spare yourself a proper, objective debate ("molecular structure noob, now stfu"). All evidence points towards that MXE is a very mild drug if kept at moderate usage. It is more water-soluble, excretable and metabolically accessible in the liver and kidneys compared to its siblings Ketamine or PCP. It is also much more potent than Ket and has a higher duration of action, which results in that the liver doesn't have to deal with as much powder in one session. On the mind MXE acts very similarly as Ketamine, but you have more self-control and less confusion due to a drastically lowered dopamine re-uptake inhibition. Usually, the best way to see the dangers of a new drug is by looking at the heavy users. These experience the negative aspects much quicker do to a high constant intake in high doses, essentially making them work as lab-rats (which is how scientists gather almost all information about drugs anyway). There are thousands of reports of people taking the substance every day for a month or even longer, and then stopping. No major negative health aspects has been noted by anyone, and the addiction is very benign and seemingly only psychological in nature as no users reported having any physical abstinence effects comparable to those you would get with amphetamines or nicotine, for example. In order words, it is one of the, if not [B]the [/B]safest dissociative both on your body and mind and no more addictive than cannabis or computer games. It has huge potential as a safe anti-depressant, intoxicant and painkiller, unlike benzo's or SSRI's which makes your body and mind highly dependent on them and, particularly benzos, can fuck you up majorly in the long run. I am not saying it is harmless, but it is far from as harmful as you portray it to be. It's very mild in terms of danger when compared to other drugs and it definitely does not deserve to be made illegal. Do you honestly believe organizations who have again and again fed the propaganda machine against all drugs, safe or not, will judge a completely new substance fairly? They don't care if it's harmful or not, as long as people are getting high off it they will label it as unsafe. They will label effects like "losing perception of time", "hallucinations" and "numbness" as negative effects when in fact it's just a part of getting high and does not inherently mean it's dangerous at all.[/QUOTE] I use MXE for about 6 months nearly daily use with no breaks and I've not noticed any long term effects since having stopped a while back (Yes I understand that 6 months doesn't constitute long term in medical time but considering the time scale of this being discovered and used it's approriate). I'm not going to lie there were short term effects such as minor psychosis and visual trails but they all stopped when I stopped using it daily. I have seen people put in worrying states by it however and funnily it was always because they mixed it with alcohol and then took heroic doses of it they all had previously been advised to not mix it with alcohol by people who had already taken it. It's a shame such stupid people ruin it for everyone and really means I can't offer any solution to this scenario, I'd like to say it should be legal as we all have a right to do what we want with out body but you can't really legislate to stop idiots only or you become hypocritical. [QUOTE=joe588;38294236][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/BWSBE.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] The real shame is this if it is true. I was lucky enough to have tried the other analogues and I must admit I found 3-MeO-PCE to be something I think should be looked into further legal use. 3-MeO-PCP, 4-MeO-PCP and Nor Ket aren't exactly mind altering losses but it's another small chip into personal rights that the government decides this for us. The very broad statements at the bottom are probably the worse as it rules out plenty of ketamine relatives which have rarely even been synthesized.

rc opiates will be the next big thing i reckon. along with lots of dead people. [editline]3rd November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocksalt;38300433]Benzene ring doesn't look too good.[/QUOTE] elaborate

Nothing unseen. Most psychedelics have only done good yet some of them are class 1.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;38294284]Publicly funded health care. Think about it for all of five seconds.[/QUOTE] So long as public health care such as the NHS funds treatment for things like poor diet and the results of accidents taking place with other, non-drug related, consensual risky activities, how is this an argument? Do you want everyone's activities, diets, etc. to be standardised? I'd rather pay for the healthcare for consequences of my own actions and take personal responsibility for my choices than have to submit to that kind of crypto-fascist coercive nonsense. HEY BITCH EAT BROCOLLI DROP THE MCDONALDS OR WE'LL JACK YOUR SHIT AND LOCK YOU IN A CAGE OR FINE YOU. The number of patients requiring treatment from the NHS for drug-related mishaps would probably reduce if drugs were available from a regulated and safe source without contaminants and with known strength and dosage instructions. You may have something to offer but you seem very condescending when attempting to present it. "Think about it for all of five seconds" - How about you pull your head out from the faecal matter infested orifice where it has become accustomed to dwelling for five seconds? If you have so much information then at least present it in support of the things you are saying instead of rearing the head of your superiority complex and trying to extend upon your massive e-pen0r. [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;38294284]Chemistry is a thing.[/quote] 420 blaze it y0 ron paul 2012

Why don't we get elections on these subjects in this country, similar to how states in America get them.

Because people in power have a superiority complex and think that the general public need abstract parental guidance from authority and are too stupid to think for themselves or have a say in actual decisions. That's why choosing a master to make decisions for you is only really pseudo-democracy and the representatives are rarely ever properly held to account. And that's without mentioning corruption and corporate lobbyists... Put simply a population capable of critical thought is less obedient. The more people are allowed to participate the more change they want. It threatens the whole state power structure.

[QUOTE=TehWhale;38289629]who are you to say what is and what isn't harmful? most of the drugs currently scheduled very highly are safe [b]in moderation[/b] anything can be abused[/QUOTE] This person knows what he is talking about, as long as you have the willpower to keep what your using in moderation. For example, I dip and i only do it 2-3 times a month. That way when you use again you still get a good buzz from it.