Congressman wants to curb the Military Surplus program with police agencies. - Polidicks

Our police department didn't have funds to get equipment thanks to the surplus program they did.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707385]Police have no purpose having such gear like mraps[/QUOTE] They have every right, especially during bank raids and fortified locations such as militia or cult locations. Or did you forget the fuckfest that was Waco. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;45706462]Good to hear. I might not live in the States, but it's kinda scary watching police officers in full military gear with military grade weapons and vehicles.[/QUOTE] Its no different that what I've seen in other nations during my travel. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] What needs to change is the training, the culture and the lack of oversight due to camaraderie.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45707615]They have every right, especially during bank raids and fortified locations such as militia or cult locations. Or did you forget the fuckfest that was Waco[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I forgot heavily armed bank robberies requiring military gear to go against happens every other day and taking down armed militias and cults are every other week. Oh, by the way, Waco was committed by the FBI, not local PD. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;45707615] Its no different that what I've seen in other nations during my travel. [/QUOTE] So what? If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you approve of it too? What other countries do is their business and have no standing on whether America wants or does something.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707650]Oh yeah, I forgot heavily armed bank robberies requiring military gear to go against happens every other day and taking down armed militias and cults are every other week. Oh, by the way, Waco was committed by the FBI, not local PD. [/QUOTE] Have you heard the saying 'better to be prepared?' They don't happen often, but you should have the gear for it incase it does. Also, any incident involving law enforcement, most other agencies take notes so they don't repeat the same mistakes.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707385]Police have no purpose having such gear like mraps[/QUOTE] It's a big armored truck. Police have plenty of use for a big armored truck. Considering how many people here complain about how much money the military wastes, to suggest we should just throw out unused vehicles and force police to purchase functionally identical but ~less scary~ alternatives is a little ridiculous. Whether they have a military truck or a civilian one, black uniforms or camoflage, Army M-4s or civilian AR-15s, won't change abuse of power and excessive response. All the abuses we've been seeing lately could just as easily have been carried out with purely civilian equipment.

[QUOTE=catbarf;45707930]It's a big armored truck. Police have plenty of use for a big armored truck. Considering how many people here complain about how much money the military wastes, to suggest we should just throw out unused vehicles and force police to purchase functionally identical but ~less scary~ alternatives is a little ridiculous.[/QUOTE] For what purpose, exactly? Do they intend on going against rioters with heavy explosives?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707385]Police have no purpose having such gear like mraps[/QUOTE] They are used for nothing other than big armored cars. They certainly have purpose. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707938]For what purpose, exactly? Do they intend on going against rioters with heavy explosives?[/QUOTE] They use them for barricade situations, where you have to approach an area where you could be exposed to gunfire. The same as what they have been using armored vehicles to do for decades. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707650]Oh yeah, I forgot heavily armed bank robberies requiring military gear to go against happens every other day and taking down armed militias and cults are every other week. [/QUOTE] Most police forces at some time or another will encounter a situation where they have to use armored vehicles or where the use of an armored vehicles would be preferable.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707938]For what purpose, exactly? Do they intend on going against rioters with heavy explosives?[/QUOTE] No, they intend on going against terror threats, mass shooters, and armed gangs, which is what SWAT teams were created to handle, and an armored transport of some kind is basically necessary. Not everything the police do is about handling protests.

I'd rather the military just mothball them until they're needed again, instead of dumping them into the civilian sector and buying all new ones in 2-3 years when we're at war again.

[QUOTE=darunner;45707999]I'd rather the military just mothball them until they're needed again, instead of dumping them into the civilian sector and buying all new ones in 2-3 years when we're at war again.[/QUOTE] This, or at least sell them to NATO ally governments, most of whom are severely underdeveloped in their militaries as part of the alliance. Maybe America won't have to be the biggest player in every conflict NATO participates in, then.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45706702]Where do you get these superlatives? They look like any nation's tactical response team. At least they aren't lugging around machine guns like BOPE.[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ people, you don't deploy police men around in automatic m4's, guardian armor, helmets and m21 snipers when there's a riot or a disturb. Brazil has to deal with pseudo guerrillas who control entire neighborhoods and are equipped with AK's, G3's and UZIs which is completely different from what's happening in Ferguson. [B] Yes, you behave depending on the gear you have[/B]. Call me bollocks, but just search it anywhere, when you're holding a baton or a taser your mindset is totally different than when welding a fully automatic M4 while in military-grade equipment. The bigger the thing you're holding the higher the testosterone levels are. [url]http://faculty.knox.edu/fmcandre/guns-testo-aggress.pdf[/url]

I don't get it. Do people actually believe they're patrolling around in armed APCS with full tactical gear and automatics doing police stops or something? This stuff sits in a wear house or a parking lot until they need it or until they bring it out to show the kids at DARE day or something. It saves them money having to buy a SWAT van or new vests or weapons or anything else the Military can hand down. Being unreasonably afraid because "big scary gun!!!" or "b-b-b-bu-but the police state!!!!" because you read 1984 during your rebellious phase in high school is dumb. At the end of they day, I'd rather have officers safe and prepared while having a few people crying about the ~~evils of today's police force~~ than just scrap a bunch of gear and surplus that could be put to good use, all to satisfy the delusions of a few paranoid dipshits.

What, are they preparing to fight guerrillas or something?

[QUOTE=Xystus234;45710154]What, are they preparing to fight guerrillas or something?[/QUOTE] As they saying goes, "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45706545]"Military grade" The rifles and vehicles they're getting aren't much different than what they would use otherwise. Call me when they start getting greater offensive capabilities. That's what would be worrying. As for seeing police officers with military weapons? More of a thing in other countries compared to the US I live in chicago. At the airport there are a couple cops with pistols and revolvers. UK Heathrow? SFOs with MP5 SMG. Paris CDG? FAMAS everywhere Vilnius? Police with MP5s escorting the plane on the Tarmac. Shanghai? Shotguns and full tactical gear. Kiev (before the revolution)? AK Carbines everywhere.[/QUOTE] via /r/GunPorn [quote]1. When US cops deal with regular people they look like this: [url]http://i.imgur.com/Ahd3LgQ.jpg[/url] 2. When Norwegian cops deal with regular people they look like this: [url]http://i.imgur.com/OBnaHu0.jpg[/url] 3. When US cops deal with armed people they look like this: [url]http://i.imgur.com/UD2UAhx.jpg[/url] 4. When Norwegian cops deal with armed people they look like this: [url]http://i.imgur.com/x96KTkC.jpg[/url] 5. And this: [url]http://i.imgur.com/n8y7YcJ.jpg[/url] 6. And this: [url]http://i.imgur.com/zNWR3T1.jpg[/url] The US has more armed criminals so we get to see the cops in #3 more often. Also, Norwegian police don't have armored vehicles, but that's because they just call out the military every time there is a bombing or mass shooting: [url]http://i.imgur.com/8BYMJwr.jpg[/url] If the police in the US did that the civil "libertahrahns" would shit their pants and go all Montana militia so the cops have to have the military-grade stuff. Police all over the world, including the nice, civil, countries in the super-white parts of Europe use armored vehicles and heavily armed, "militarized" police all of the time, particularly for riot control. At Oktoberfest in Munich the Polizei [are stationed at every entrance and exit]([url]http://i.imgur.com/k3aBy47.jpg[/url]) searching bags, in military gear, and [roving patrols circulate through the crowds]([url]http://i.imgur.com/URCtnu9.jpg[/url]), similarly armed. Anti-terror rapid response units sit in their vehicles out of sight in alleys off all of the main venues armed to the teeth in case something happens. They also [block access to the area]([url]http://i.imgur.com/jiwFJsc.jpg[/url]) and [search every single vehicle coming into or out of the area]([url]http://i.imgur.com/3MJslmn.jpg[/url]). This is all due to a bombing that occurred 34 years ago. Here's what the Austrian police look like when they confront armed suspects (in this case a suspected murderer armed with a hunting shotgun): [url]http://i.imgur.com/u9J1ThC.jpg[/url] Here's what the British police look like when they search for armed suspects: [url]http://i.imgur.com/1HHfFoT.jpg[/url] Here's another image of what British police look like when they are pursuing an armed suspect: [url]http://i.imgur.com/ME9XyrD.jpg[/url] German police at a riot: [url]http://i.imgur.com/KdfHuNY.jpg[/url] French police dealing with suspected armed criminals: [url]http://i.imgur.com/7bIsX51.jpg[/url] (The French special police units are my second favorite after the South Korean units. French SWAT police officers like techno-terminators but the South Koreans all wear bad-ass sunglasses and look like taekwondo grand masters: [url]http://i.imgur.com/1RdQxkW.jpg[/url]) Here's how they deal with bomb threats in the Netherlands: [url]http://i.imgur.com/OtNptdV.jpg[/url] And a Dutch police demonstration: [url]http://i.imgur.com/31M5owI.jpg[/url] The US has more crime, and the criminals are more often armed with more powerful weapons, so the police react accordingly. If the US had the same levels of crime, gun ownership, and firearms capabilities that they have in Europe, US police forces would look more like European police forces. **That's the price of freedom!** edit: tell you what. You find me a country that **DOESN'T** use armored vehicles, body armor, and/or military-grade weaponry when confronting/pursuing/serving a warrant on a suspect who is known or suspected to be armed, I'll say the US police are "militarized". bonus: here's how the Swiss police roll out when hunting an armed cop killer: [url]http://i.imgur.com/a37nGjc.jpg[/url] Swiss police #2 with bomb-defusing robot in background: [url]http://i.imgur.com/gIuOQjy.jpg[/url] God damn how many guns do these Swiss cops need? [url]http://i.imgur.com/nupuUYS.jpg[/url] more: What? No Finland? This is what the Finns roll up in when there is a school shooting: [url]http://i.imgur.com/eMfSW5s.jpg[/url] What about Sweden? These Stockholm police exchanged gunfire with dudes trying to rob a jewelry store: [url]http://i.imgur.com/EQ3za8i.jpg[/url][/quote] [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GunPorn/comments/2bond7/norwegian_police_armed_with_heckler_koch_mp5/cj7o5rh?context=3[/url]

Well I think if they really do need some of this stuff, they should have it regardless of where it came from. I imagine with a lot of civilians owning guns that hardware intended for the military would be a sensible choice.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;45710328]via /r/GunPorn [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/GunPorn/comments/2bond7/norwegian_police_armed_with_heckler_koch_mp5/cj7o5rh?context=3[/url][/QUOTE] Hah, now that just about beats all, doesn't it?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706720]Wtf this isn't tactical response, they aren't dealing with terrorists or organised crime. They are dealing with protestors. American response to a protest: [t]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53ea71eb6da811f52abfd804/image.jpg[/t] Australian response to a protest (Cronulla riots) [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Cronulla_riots_3_-_police.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Youre being an idiot, with how rare firearms are in austrailia since the ban, there's no real reason for them to have armor or rifles, same with the UK.

Sorry, I just got through five checkpoints from the grocery store and was randomly strip-searched by a patrolling police carrier. Seriously, people with perceptions of the US police forces becoming militarized have never driven through a town in the US. And you guys complain about the US? Look at Brazil. Their police force literally has a 'Military' and a 'Civil' branch for police.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;45710936]Youre being an idiot, with how rare firearms are in austrailia since the ban, there's no real reason for them to have armor or rifles, same with the UK.[/QUOTE] But based on what the pro-gun people say on these forums, guns are only used for self-defense against muggings and for hunting game so the police shouldn't be worried (!!!)

I can't speak for other countries, but lots of people I've spoken with object less to the military gear and more to the "us versus them" attitude. Lots of the officers I've met have been completely normal and very nice people, but there's a fair share of them that regard themselves as not part of, if not better than, the rest of the population. Nothing breeds distrust of the police quite like the police acting like a war's about to break out.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;45710967] Seriously, people with perceptions of the US police forces becoming militarized have never driven through a town in the US. And you guys complain about the US? Look at Brazil. Their police force literally has a 'Military' and a 'Civil' branch for police.[/QUOTE] "We're not that bad, look at that shitty poor country over there"

[QUOTE=oakman26;45711104]sorry but the examples you raised tells me and everyone you dont know shit[/QUOTE] Examples I've raised? I don't know shit about what?

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;45709936]Brazil has to deal with pseudo guerrillas who control entire neighborhoods and are equipped with AK's, G3's and UZIs which is completely different from what's happening in Ferguson.[/QUOTE] You're right. There is no goddamn reason you need a .30 caliber full auto weapon in a situation like that. In Ferguson, they have .223 semi auto rifles (including their "sniper rifles").

despite the OP content, i'm in shock that people here believe that the over-militarization of police stops at what they use in riot control. departments EVERYWHERE love a cop with military experience. you think that years of training, deployment, action, etc. go away just because they're in a black uniform now?

Appearance is everything. If you have what looks dangerously like the military in the streets of Everytown USA to control protests then of course that's going to send an extremely threatening message.

I don't mind the police having upgraded body armor and armored vehicles. Since they already have those and are just upgrading their old stuff to the newer, better stuff. I think whats really pissing people off ( me included) is police departments wearing camo. I mean get a load of these fucks [IMG]http://coloneldespard.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/8060903-87.jpg[/IMG] What ever happened to black uniforms. Something we all know that means POLICE and not the same uniform we see our soldiers in. If you break down that image, all they have is shotguns, body armor ( which they always had) and a grenade launcher with tear gas, or smoke.

[QUOTE=counterpo0;45711414]I don't mind the police having upgraded body armor and armored vehicles. Since they already have those and are just upgrading their old stuff to the newer, better stuff. I think whats really pissing people off ( me included) is police departments wearing camo. I mean get a load of these fucks [IMG]http://coloneldespard.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/8060903-87.jpg[/IMG] What ever happened to black uniforms. Something we all know that means POLICE and not the same uniform we see our soldiers in. If you break down that image, all they have is shotguns, body armor ( which they always had) and a grenade launcher with tear gas, or smoke.[/QUOTE] It's just fashion. Back then, solid colors were the go-to uniforms for SWAT. Now it's camouflage patterns.

[QUOTE=counterpo0;45711414]I don't mind the police having upgraded body armor and armored vehicles. Since they already have those and are just upgrading their old stuff to the newer, better stuff. I think whats really pissing people off ( me included) is police departments wearing camo. I mean get a load of these fucks [IMG]http://coloneldespard.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/8060903-87.jpg[/IMG] What ever happened to black uniforms. Something we all know that means POLICE and not the same uniform we see our soldiers in. If you break down that image, all they have is shotguns, body armor ( which they always had) and a grenade launcher with tear gas, or smoke.[/QUOTE] Camouflage gives a 20% damage boost against civilians. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=stupid10er;45711371]despite the OP content, i'm in shock that people here believe that the over-militarization of police stops at what they use in riot control. departments EVERYWHERE love a cop with military experience. you think that years of training, deployment, action, etc. go away just because they're in a black uniform now?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=ilikecorn;45711421]Almost every department in the US will hire a vet before they hire anyone else. Like literally, an infantry man with atleast 1 deployment? To the front of the line with you.[/QUOTE] Well then I hope you two don't complain about them not being trained enough.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45706545]"Military grade" The rifles and vehicles they're getting aren't much different than what they would use otherwise. Call me when they start getting greater offensive capabilities. That's what would be worrying. As for seeing police officers with military weapons? More of a thing in other countries compared to the US I live in chicago. At the airport there are a couple cops with pistols and revolvers. [...] [B]Paris CDG? FAMAS everywhere[/B] [/QUOTE] The soldiers in Paris and airports are...soldiers. And the FAMASs aren't loaded. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] And really to even compare English firearms distribution in police agencies to US distribution is silly. Most of your list is conveniently selective, especially given the scarcity of actual Western examples.