Turkish President wants to restore the Death Penalty - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981866]There's a [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States"]very long list[/url] of wrongful convictions in the United States on Wikipedia. Imagine if all of them had ended in an execution.[/QUOTE] Again I'm not talking about people locked up for a rape or a murder. Also not against this post directly but why does everyone here reference wikipedia when citing claims? You guys realize anyone can put info there? And [url="https://www.export.gov/comm_svc/press_room/news/articles/reliagene_1003.html"]a lot[/url] of [url="https://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/48.php"]the sources[/url] aren't even valid (anymore?)

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981875]Again I'm not talking about people locked up for a rape or a murder. Also not against this post directly but why does everyone here reference wikipedia when citing claims? You guys realize anyone can put info there? And [url="https://www.export.gov/comm_svc/press_room/news/articles/reliagene_1003.html"]a lot[/url] of [url="https://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/48.php"]the sources[/url] aren't even valid (anymore?)[/QUOTE] Most of the entries are properly sourced via news articles or books. Also, you're not going to get "real, fucked up individuals" accepted as a legal definition for people who should be subject to the death penalty. It's not objective at all.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981886]Most of the entries are properly sourced via news articles or books. Also, you're not going to get "real, fucked up individuals" accepted as a legal definition for people who should be subject to the death penalty. It's not objective at all.[/QUOTE] Alright how about we put it at it as a serial killer, or someone going up to another in mid-day and shooting a person in the face for fun type shit?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981907]Alright how about we put it at it as a serial killer, or someone going up to another in mid-day and shooting a person in the face for fun type shit?[/QUOTE] These are so rare that locking them all up in a 5 star Hilton wouldn't make a dent in any government budget. Anders Breivik is currently tly doing his masters while he's imprisoned for life. Costs a lot of money for 1 person , but nobody cares as in the grand scheme of things it's nothing when divided over the whole country. If you still want them to not cost anything have them work. This is technically slave labour and I'm against that, but it's better than death.

[QUOTE=taipan;51981934]These are so rare that locking them all up in a 5 star Hilton wouldn't make a dent in any government budget. Anders Breivik is currently tly doing his masters while he's imprisoned for life. Costs a lot of money for 1 person , but nobody cares as in the grand scheme of things it's nothing when divided over the whole country. If you still want them to not cost anything have them work. This is technically slave labour and I'm against that, but it's better than death.[/QUOTE] That's bullshit if true. What if everyone wanted to do their masters when they're imprisoned for life? The government shouldn't have let him do that. And yes while dividing over the population (speaking from US here) it's not much, it's still MY money which I don't want going to THOSE people. If we take a moment, according to [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html"]the NY Times[/url] in 2010 a survey found that the average cost of an inmate was $31,286 per year. If we say that, for example, there's at least 40 serial killers in the United States alive and incarcerated today, (I can pull the numbers, rather, if you'd like for all convicted serial killers in the United States too) and If we say each inmate lives 40 years in prison, that's $1,251,440 their lifetime there. ($1,251,440 * 40) / 300 million is ~$0.16 per person. It's still $50,057,600 that we would have over the course of 40 years that we now don't.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981816]I mean if they get 2 appeals in 5 5 years and they're still found guilty, as far as I'm concerned ye they're guilty. Alright let's go with your train of thought then. No death penalty? How about a guy like Jeffrey Dahmer? Can he be rehabilitated? How about just locking him up for life? No dude, death penatly. It's pretty obvious. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] As far as I'm concerned, eye witnesses and a CCTV would be 100% but that's not good enough for you guys is it? So yes, call it backpedaling if you will, I'm still calling it 100% by my standards, but fitting it into 99% for your precious paranoid minds.[/QUOTE] Do you have any idea how bad eye witness testimomies actually are? I mean, any idea? Do you have even the slightest clue what you're talking about? Have you ever spoken to a professional on this subject, or do you get all your information from law & order, and common sense? Because everything you've suggested is incredibly fallible. Under your suggestion, thousands of innocents would be wrongfully murdered by the state. Do you care? Do you even realize that? Honestly, are you speaking with [b]any[/b] authority, or are you just saying what feels right? Because you're demonstrating a complete and utter lack of knowledge on this subject. Every professional would disagree with you vehemently. I can't recommend enough that you quit speaking while you're still ahead. Save yourself the public embarrassment. You're making yourself out to be a completely unknowledgeable, unempathetic, ass. Do yourself a favor here, man.

[QUOTE=Anti Christ;51982014]Do you have any idea how bad eye witness testimomies actually are? I mean, any idea? Do you have even the slightest clue what you're talking about? Have you ever spoken to a professional on this subject, or do you get all your information from law & order, and common sense? Because everything you've suggested is incredibly fallible. Under your suggestion, thousands of innocents would be wrongfully murdered by the state. Do you care? Do you even realize that? Honestly, are you speaking with [b]any[/b] authority, or are you just saying what feels right? Because you're demonstrating a complete and utter lack of knowledge on this subject. Every professional would disagree with you vehemently. I can't recommend enough that you quit speaking while you're still ahead. Save yourself the public embarrassment. You're making yourself out to be a completely unknowledgeable, unempathetic, ass. Do yourself a favor here, man.[/QUOTE] Again, I'm not saying pure eye witness. I'm arguing CCTV + Eye Witness, or enough evidence tied to the perp between multiple multiple heinous crimes. So um... I think that just about covers your post.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982024]Again, I'm not saying pure eye witness. I'm arguing CCTV + Eye Witness, or enough evidence tied to the perp between multiple multiple heinous crimes. So um... I think that just about covers your post.[/QUOTE] Sorry. It doesn't.

oh boy, can't wait to hear "Turkey executes thousands of political opponents, Erdogan claims it's for 'the security of the state' "

No government, under any circumstance, should have the right to execute it's own population. Nobody should have the ability to choose who does and who doesn't have the right to live. Removing someone from society for their rehabilitation and to keep the general public safe is one thing, but just killing them outright like an animal? That's sick and people who support the death penalty are vile. I've never seen a single argument for the death penalty which isn't paper thin.

[QUOTE=ejonkou;51982114]No government, under any circumstance, should have the right to execute it's own population. Nobody should have the ability to choose who does and who doesn't have the right to live. Removing someone from society for their rehabilitation and to keep the general public safe is one thing, but just killing them outright like an animal? That's sick and people who support the death penalty are vile. I've never seen a single argument for the death penalty which isn't paper thin.[/QUOTE] Okay, what about people beyond rehabilitation?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981694]idk maybe CCTV cameras clearly showing the person shooting some guy in the face, something along those lines. Why should taxpayers pay to keep a worthless human being around? I stated previously that there has to be certainty that they are the ones who did the crime exactly so I wouldn't get replies like this.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty[/url] Except the Death Penalty costs taxpayers more. And there's no chance of rehabilitation, meaning the person who already cost millions, will just be an unrecoverable cost versus someone who could eventually become a functional member of society again.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982024]Again, I'm not saying pure eye witness. I'm arguing CCTV + Eye Witness, or enough evidence tied to the perp between multiple multiple heinous crimes. So um... I think that just about covers your post.[/QUOTE] I couldn't fucking care if you murdered a whole town, the government should not make anyone a martyr a life sentence is more humiliating and effective than death

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981654]Good. Every nation should allow the death penalty. (With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.)[/QUOTE] Oh of course you would say that

[QUOTE=Legend286;51982123][url]http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty[/url] Except the Death Penalty costs taxpayers more. And there's no chance of rehabilitation, meaning the person who already cost millions, will just be an unrecoverable cost versus someone who could eventually become a functional member of society again.[/QUOTE] There's some people that just cannot. And yeah you're right about it costing more (which we could arguably bring the price down, but it is what it is), but lots of these states go for the death penalty on people that they aren't even sure dun' it, which leads to appeal after appeal. Cases that are obvious and meet the criteria I stated should be open and shut, bullet in the head, bam that's all there is to it.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981984]And yes while dividing over the population (speaking from US here) it's not much, it's still MY money which I don't want going to THOSE people.[/QUOTE] So what you're saying you'd rather your government executes people than force you to pay extra 16 CENTS per year? Your argument assumes that every single person in the justice system is a [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-justice-scandal-fbi-could-be-at-fault-in-27-death-row-cases-8718135.html"]faultless upstanding[/URL] citizen, well, spoiler alert, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates#United_States"]that's not the case[/URL]. You're defending something on a principle even if it would be proven to be objectively worse or more expensive. Though this is a bit unrelated, do you also oppose single payer healthcare because criminals could get healthcare for free, even if it is objectively cheaper for everyone? Get real. Convictions are never black and white, no matter how clear-cut they might seem. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982161]Cases that are obvious and meet the criteria I stated should be open and shut, bullet in the head, bam that's all there is to it.[/QUOTE] So are you gonna decide who the executioner is, or are you gonna get volunteers? You're saying that as if executing people is something you can just do as a part time job and not end up scarred.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982119]Okay, what about people beyond rehabilitation?[/QUOTE] First you have to decide what "beyond rehabilitation" actually means, you keep using those words but I don't think you fully understand them. Some people with severe mental illnesses aren't fit to live in society, they could and probably would have if there was some preemptive treatment for mental illness. America is a great example of a country with a shitty mental healthcare system where too many people with the potential to become dangerous slip through the cracks, that you can't really blame the individual. There's a reason why America has more serial killers than virtually any other country in the world. And even when people who are mentally ill committ crimes, they are rarely sent to mental institutions and are thrown in to the general population of a max sec prison, I don't think there's a better way to make a mentally ill person even worse than throwing them in to such an environment. Killing off people who are mentally ill doesn't tackle the problem and doesn't solve anything. Instead of killing a bunch of people who are sick and need help, maybe put that money in to mental health & youth programs? Try to catch people who are mentally ill early, give them the proper treatment and medication, remove them from hostile and toxic environments and they will be able to live full and productive lives. You still haven't made a single credible argument yet and you keep throwing the same old rhetoric around that people have been for decades, arguments which are paper thin.

The death penalty is barbaric, expensive and will always entail some risk of convicting and murdering an innocent. Of course innocents can also be convicted and go to prison, but that holds the door open for them to be released and compensated - and prisons serve an actual purpose: punishing and rehabilitating criminals, whereas the death penalty, beyond satisfying some lust for revenge (and perhaps - in any country with no respect for its citizen's rights - saving some money), does absolutely fuck all.

[QUOTE=ejonkou;51982195]First you have to decide what "beyond rehabilitation" actually means, you keep using those words but I don't think you fully understand them. Some people with severe mental illnesses aren't fit to live in society, they could and probably would have if there was some preemptive treatment for mental illness. America is a great example of a country with a shitty mental healthcare system where too many people with the potential to become dangerous slip through the cracks, that you can't really blame the individual. There's a reason why America has more serial killers than virtually any other country in the world. And even when people who are mentally ill committ crimes, they are rarely sent to mental institutions and are thrown in to the general population of a max sec prison, I don't think there's a better way to make a mentally ill person even worse than throwing them in to such an environment. Killing off people who are mentally ill doesn't tackle the problem and doesn't solve anything. Instead of killing a bunch of people who are sick and need help, maybe put that money in to mental health & youth programs? Try to catch people who are mentally ill early, give them the proper treatment and medication, remove them from hostile and toxic environments and they will be able to live full and productive lives. You still haven't made a single credible argument yet and you keep throwing the same old rhetoric around that people have been for decades, arguments which are paper thin.[/QUOTE] There are a few exceptions for the death penalty. For example, Charles Manson has lived over five decades within prison, but is still just as crazy. Overall in most cases I'm against the death penalty, but the only thing keeping me from being totally against it is for the people who have no hope for rehabilitation.

[QUOTE=Murkrow;51982184]So what you're saying you'd rather your government executes people than force you to pay extra 16 CENTS per year? Your argument assumes that every single person in the justice system is a [URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/american-justice-scandal-fbi-could-be-at-fault-in-27-death-row-cases-8718135.html"]faultless upstanding[/URL] citizen, well, spoiler alert, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exonerated_death_row_inmates#United_States"]that's not the case[/URL]. You're defending something on a principle even if it would be proven to be objectively worse or more expensive. Though this is a bit unrelated, do you also oppose single payer healthcare because criminals could get healthcare for free, even if it is objectively cheaper for everyone? Get real. Convictions are never black and white, no matter how clear-cut they might seem. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] So are you gonna decide who the executioner is, or are you gonna get volunteers? You're saying that as if executing people is something you can just do as a part time job and not end up scarred.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ it's not even two pages you can at least see what else I've said on the subject rather than nitpicking; I'll just have to repeat myself again: Yeah, if there's no use for them in society? Ok, never said that. Those exonerated (that I can clearly see) weren't from multiple murders (3 at least) except for Timothy B. Hennis, who then got his exoneration revoked due to it actually being him. It doesn't have to be more expensive. Do death penalty for people doing shit like an execution in public, or a serial killer, or hell a person caught on CCTV + eye witnesses. These are open and shut cases, no fucking appeals, there's no need... also no. Okay. Pick soldiers. There's this thing called blanks. Line up soldiers, one (or two) has a bullet, the other are blanks. Nobody knows who killed the person. [QUOTE=ejonkou;51982195]First you have to decide what "beyond rehabilitation" actually means, you keep using those words but I don't think you fully understand them. Some people with severe mental illnesses aren't fit to live in society, they could and probably would have if there was some preemptive treatment for mental illness. America is a great example of a country with a shitty mental healthcare system where too many people with the potential to become dangerous slip through the cracks, that you can't really blame the individual. There's a reason why America has more serial killers than virtually any other country in the world. And even when people who are mentally ill committ crimes, they are rarely sent to mental institutions and are thrown in to the general population of a max sec prison, I don't think there's a better way to make a mentally ill person even worse than throwing them in to such an environment. Killing off people who are mentally ill doesn't tackle the problem and doesn't solve anything. Instead of killing a bunch of people who are sick and need help, maybe put that money in to mental health & youth programs? Try to catch people who are mentally ill early, give them the proper treatment and medication, remove them from hostile and toxic environments and they will be able to live full and productive lives. You still haven't made a single credible argument yet and you keep throwing the same old rhetoric around that people have been for decades, arguments which are paper thin.[/QUOTE] I'm not disagreeing with the mentally ill getting treatment before it happens, but as soon as they turn lunatic, they destroyed human life. Open and shut case? End them. No? Keep em in jail.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981984]That's bullshit if true. What if everyone wanted to do their masters when they're imprisoned for life? The government shouldn't have let him do that. And yes while dividing over the population (speaking from US here) it's not much, it's still MY money which I don't want going to THOSE people. If we take a moment, according to [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html"]the NY Times[/url] in 2010 a survey found that the average cost of an inmate was $31,286 per year. If we say that, for example, there's at least 40 serial killers in the United States alive and incarcerated today, (I can pull the numbers, rather, if you'd like for all convicted serial killers in the United States too) and If we say each inmate lives 40 years in prison, that's $1,251,440 their lifetime there. ($1,251,440 * 40) / 300 million is ~$0.16 per person. It's still $50,057,600 that we would have over the course of 40 years that we now don't.[/QUOTE] Consider for a second the economic debt that comes along with our fucked up system? [quote]Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested. [/quote] You know what would be WAY WAY WAY cheaper than keeping 70 percent of inmates locked up forever? Paying the higher cost to rehab them, make them [I]safe[/I] individuals again, and then get them back out living again. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982239] I'm not disagreeing with the mentally ill getting treatment before it happens, but as soon as they[B] turn lunatic[/B], they destroyed human life. Open and shut case? End them. No? Keep em in jail.[/QUOTE] Define. Also, why keep mentally ill people in prison forever if they get rehabbed? What is the fucking point?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982239]I'm not disagreeing with the mentally ill getting treatment before it happens, but as soon as they turn lunatic, they destroyed human life. Open and shut case? End them. No? Keep em in jail.[/QUOTE] Just judging by the language you decide to use I can tell that you have no clue what you're talking about. "Once they turn lunatic", what does this even mean lol? Open and shut case? What open and shut case? Jesus christ dude, you need to educate yourself a bit. You're delusional.

[QUOTE=ejonkou;51982298]Just judging by the language you decide to use I can tell that you have no clue what you're talking about. "Once they turn lunatic", what does this even mean lol? Open and shut case? What open and shut case? Jesus christ dude, you need to educate yourself a bit. You're delusional.[/QUOTE] Dude I get it you just wanna be high and mighty. You should be able to read into that post and see that I meant, yknow, if they snap and go on some killing spree. "lol"! Open and shut case? Yeah. Almost like what I've been saying this whole thread, "lol"?!

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982308]Dude I get it you just wanna be high and mighty. You should be able to read into that post and see that I meant, yknow, if they snap and go on some killing spree. "lol"! Open and shut case? Yeah. Almost like what I've been saying this whole thread, "lol"?![/QUOTE] please respond to [QUOTE=phygon;51982263]Consider for a second the economic debt that comes along with our fucked up system? You know what would be WAY WAY WAY cheaper than keeping 70 percent of inmates locked up forever? Paying the higher cost to rehab them, make them [I]safe[/I] individuals again, and then get them back out living again. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] Define. Also, why keep mentally ill people in prison forever if they get rehabbed? What is the fucking point?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982308]Dude I get it you just wanna be high and mighty. You should be able to read into that post and see that I meant, yknow, if they snap and go on some killing spree. "lol"! Open and shut case? Yeah. Almost like what I've been saying this whole thread, "lol"?![/QUOTE] None of what you said in previous comment and especially in this one make any sense. There's nothing high or mighty about what he pointed out. You're just very vague which is unacceptable when talking about killing someone.

Snipped.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982239]I'm not disagreeing with the mentally ill getting treatment before it happens, but as soon as they turn lunatic, they destroyed human life. Open and shut case? End them. No? Keep em in jail.[/QUOTE] Then you should probably heed your own advice and seek help before you get "ended" yourself.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51982308]Dude I get it you just wanna be high and mighty. You should be able to read into that post and see that I meant, yknow, if they snap and go on some killing spree. "lol"! Open and shut case? Yeah. Almost like what I've been saying this whole thread, "lol"?![/QUOTE] You're not a judge. You're not a lawyer. You're not an investigator. You're not a criminologist. You [B][I]DO NOT[/I][/B] get to decide what is an "open and shut" case, because as your posts in this thread have proved, you don't know shit about what you're talking about.

Murder is bad. I don't know how killing a murderer solves anyone's problems.

Remember when Turkey was the most modern and moderate Muslim majority country? What the hell happened?