• "Burgers are not like steak" - Food Standards Agency
    161 replies, posted
[QUOTE=false prophet;50947195]I bet you just love the taste of salmonella[/QUOTE] I [I]think[/I] this was sarcastic [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=jamzzster;50948032]If your meat is good quality it should not contain bacteria that require oxygen to grow. There is no oxygen on the inside of steaks so [B]most[/B] bacteria cannot grow. It comes to a extremely safe level. You can remove the outer skin and mince that meat and create a safe medium burger immediately as I mentioned on the first page.[/QUOTE] Well if you're working with 100% clean utensils and you mince a single steak you [I]could[/I] have medium-rare burgers but I wouldn't risk that with supermarket minced meat
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50947961]Who even likes rare chicken, anyways? I mean, I've had rare steak, I don't like it but I can at least see why someone would enjoy it, but rare chicken is just slimy and disgusting. Chicken needs to be cooked all the way through to be edible, both for health and for flavor/texture.[/QUOTE] Rare chicken? Is that even a thing? Sounds like a recipe for salmonella.
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;50944468]glad they could spread this fearmongering to you as well[/QUOTE] Yea god forbid they inform people that you may get sick from eating raw burger. Its not misleading. Its not fear mongering. Its facts.
I don't know how anybody would eat a burger cooked any less than medium. Rare burgers are slimey and disgusting
[QUOTE=Loriborn;50944242]i dont care about the infinitesimally small risk, a medium rare burger is amazing and i'm a healthy young man who can handle potential salmonella to enjoy that juicy red meat[/QUOTE] What would you want to even risk getting E. Coli?
[IMG]https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/meat-glue-4.gif[/IMG] On a related note be aware that really cheap "whole" meats will be put together with meat glue. Some people and bad restaurants cook these as steaks because they look like a whole piece of meat but the surface area has already been exposed within the meat in its past, and it's not safe to use as a steak.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;50948146]I [I]think[/I] this was sarcastic [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] Well if you're working with 100% clean utensils and you mince a single steak you [I]could[/I] have medium-rare burgers but I wouldn't risk that with supermarket minced meat[/QUOTE] Never ever used super market minced meat, all the surface area of meat is potentially contaminated. Using the inner flesh with the skin trimmed and mincing it immidiatly and cooking withing a few hours you have safe burger meat what can be cooked medium. As I've said this inner meat isn't 'contaminated'. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;50948481][IMG]https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/meat-glue-4.gif[/IMG] On a related note be aware that really cheap "whole" meats will be put together with meat glue. Some people and bad restaurants cook these as steaks because they look like a whole piece of meat but the surface area has already been exposed within the meat in its past, and it's not safe to use as a steak.[/QUOTE] Restaurants in the UK have specific guidelines to cooking burgers rare that range from the source/type of meat and cut to how it is prepared [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] This tabloid is a load of shit putting people off proper restaurants, but its right in saying you should buy mince and cook it rare, your asking for trouble doing that. No one had food tech class here ;( If you wan't to make a proper medium burger yourself go to your market butcher and ask them, they'll mince you a freshly sliced joint too ready to be cooked into burger meat the same evening ( it all falls into bacteria growth rates )
Good burger bars ground their own beef from specific cuts, and some use quality steak cuts. So if you go to a decent restaurant for a burger and order medium rare, usually its okay. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;50948481][IMG]https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/meat-glue-4.gif[/IMG] On a related note be aware that really cheap "whole" meats will be put together with meat glue. Some people and bad restaurants cook these as steaks because they look like a whole piece of meat but the surface area has already been exposed within the meat in its past, and it's not safe to use as a steak.[/QUOTE] Meat glue is natural anyways, and some ingredients uses it to form foods like crabsticks. Its just to stick two pieces of meat together. The way they call it 'glue' is to make idiots think its not safe to eat, like MSG
I have no problem eating meat glue if it means less wasted meat.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;50948146]I [I]think[/I] this was sarcastic [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] Well if you're working with 100% clean utensils and you mince a single steak you [I]could[/I] have medium-rare burgers but I wouldn't risk that with supermarket minced meat[/QUOTE] If your utensils aren't clean then it is a poor restaurant
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50949319]I have no problem eating meat glue if it means less wasted meat.[/QUOTE] I'm not opposed to the idea as long as it's they don't try to sell it as something else. Also, there's the problem with having surface bacteria which would normally be killed being on the inside of the meat.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;50947703]The USDA actually decreased the temperature needed to cook whole pork from [url=http://blogs.usda.gov/2011/05/25/cooking-meat-check-the-new-recommended-temperatures/]165F to 145F in 2011, so somewhat "medium rare" pork is now acceptable due to the fact that trichinosis is almost nonexistent in the US nowadays, and the biggest risk is now salmonella[/url][/QUOTE]"Almost nonexistent" is like saying people rarely die from lighting strikes so walking around with a 15 foot metal pole in a thunderstorm is okay. There is literally no benefit to undercooking pork, the taste is the [I]exact[/I] same. Oh and I have to remind you that the reason why it's "almost nonexistent" and not "nonexistent" is because a head is certified USDA safe if it's logged as getting it's shots, which means if one pig gets a tag and doesn't get the shot because Billy Bob is teaching his mildly retarded son the family business then nobody will know. Further on down if the processing plant doesn't test because laziness or because they just genuinely fucked up then you have one hog (one of several) who might be carrying parasites. That's two checks that I've personally seen fail, and while I've never worked in a butcher shop I can't imagine they're sending samples off to a lab and are trusting the people further up the supply chain like everyone else. Statistically it's unlikely but statistically it's unlikely I'll get in a car accident but I still wear my seat belt, statistics are a stupid thing to rely on. Undercooked chicken is worse, that is a big N O P E for me because I'm intimately familiar with every step of that process and haha no fucking way am I playing with that. Nope. Just nope. [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ignhelper;50949232]Its just to stick two pieces of meat together. The way they call it 'glue' is to make idiots think its not safe to eat, like MSG[/QUOTE]It's not safe to think it's like a steak though, it isn't, it's basically solid hamburger and should be treated as such. Steak is fine to eat rare (I prefer medium rare myself) and even certain wild game can be eaten like that but once you start having processed meats (hamburger, etc) that have gone through a factory line it's an automatic cook the hell out of it for me. I'm squeamish about just eating normal factory-processed meats because unfortunately I've seen the other side and some [B]fucked up stuff[/B] happens on the line. I won't deliberately gross anyone else out, but suffice to say it's very concerning. [editline]25th August 2016[/editline] Oh and just to clarify: I have to add that on farms trichinella infections aren't stopped by shots (the example I used was to illustrate how accidents happen) but instead by keeping pigs from eating things they're not supposed to eat. I'll tell you right now, pigs will eat [U]anything[/U] they can and actual testing specifically for trichinella spirals occurs at processing. All it takes is for an infected racoon to get in there, get stepped on, and they [I]will[/I] eat it and that will more than likely pass on the infection. Again just for clarity: stopping trichinosis is risk management, it's fairly simple stuff but it isn't some big "yes this pig here is 100% safe from any all illnesses and parasites" like I might have implied. As I said, all of this relies on people actually paying attention and doing their jobs and there are some hilariously dumb people put in charge of important things all over the world, the meat industry is no different.
Pretty sure I clarified all of those points with the phrase "reputable source". Chicken sashimi for example is enjoyed in Japan, prepared from chickens that have a very low chance of being contaminated with salmonella. Just because the farms you have been on have terrible practices doesn't mean that all farms have terrible practices. Besides, whether or not raw/medium rare/medium meat tastes good is entirely a matter of personal preference. I myself prefer pork loins to be done medium since the leanness of the meat doesn't lend itself to being well-done. Obviously I'm not going to do this with some Tesco Everyday Value pork loins of dubious provenance.
Imo, pork cooked medium well tastes the best. It's so incredibly Juicy while also staying away from any raw textures.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50949319]I have no problem eating meat glue if it means less wasted meat.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ignhelper;50949232] Meat glue is natural anyways, and some ingredients uses it to form foods like crabsticks. Its just to stick two pieces of meat together. The way they call it 'glue' is to make idiots think its not safe to eat, like MSG[/QUOTE] [B]My problem isn't the meat glue itself though.[/B] As I said in the previous post, by nature, pieces of meat that have been stuck together by any means are unsafe for cooking like a rare steak.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50949946]Pretty sure I clarified all of those points with the phrase "reputable source". Chicken sashimi for example is enjoyed in Japan, prepared from chickens that have a very low chance of being contaminated with salmonella. Just because the farms you have been on have terrible practices doesn't mean that all farms have terrible practices. Besides, whether or not raw/medium rare/medium meat tastes good is entirely a matter of personal preference. I myself prefer pork loins to be done medium since the leanness of the meat doesn't lend itself to being well-done. Obviously I'm not going to do this with some Tesco Everyday Value pork loins of dubious provenance.[/QUOTE] chicken sashimi is fucking delicious too
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50944544]Speaking from the perspective of somebody who has actually done this, I'd [B][U]never[/U][/B] eat venison in any state except well-done. If you've ever eaten a venison steak you might have noticed these neat little swirly patterns in the steak. One time my girlfriend actually remarked on it, said it looked really interesting and meanwhile I sat across from the table staring hard down at my steak wondering if I really cooked it all the way through. Those swirls? Yep, that's worms. They're waiting for you to eat the meat. They're doing this for a reason.[/QUOTE] Well done is a waste of meat. If your venison has worms in it you should probably get some better meat
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;50949232]Good burger bars ground their own beef from specific cuts, and some use quality steak cuts. So if you go to a decent restaurant for a burger and order medium rare, usually its okay. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] Meat glue is natural anyways, and some ingredients uses it to form foods like crabsticks. Its just to stick two pieces of meat together. The way they call it 'glue' is to make idiots think its not safe to eat, like MSG[/QUOTE] I have no issue with cheap glued meats if they were priced as such instead of trying to be something like fillet mignon cuts that are incredibly expensive.
[QUOTE=Cuel;50950052]Well done is a waste of meat. If your venison has worms in it you should probably get some better meat[/QUOTE] it's hardly something you can influence when the venison comes from a deer you shot in your backyard
[QUOTE=Cuel;50950052]Well done is a waste of meat. If your venison has worms in it you should probably get some better meat[/QUOTE]Yeah I'll just go tell all those wild deer to stop getting infected with parasites. Thanks, that's totally going to work.
[QUOTE=Reagy;50946620]If its pink its not cooked and I wont touch it, there's an art to doing well done food and if you can't do it, you don't know how to cook, you can make a juicy well done steak for example.[/QUOTE] cooking is also a science. yeah it's possible to a well done steak not taste like a brick, but due to the difference in the denaturing of the proteins it will never be as juicy as a medium-rare that and not everyone has the time or money to cook a rich marbled steak on low, and it simply isn't feasible when grilling
[QUOTE=Cuel;50950052]Well done is a waste of meat. If your venison has worms in it you should probably get some better meat[/QUOTE] How exactly is the meat wasted, if well done?
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50950241]How exactly is the meat wasted, if well done?[/QUOTE] if it's for taste and the meat isn't dried out then it doesn't matter, but being scared of pink is silly
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50950241]How exactly is the meat wasted, if well done?[/QUOTE] If you want a well-done piece of beef, a burger will get you that seared taste but still be tender due to being ground. If you want a dense piece that still has the structure and texture of a cut of steak, a fatty chuck roast is cheap and will melt in your mouth after a day in the slow cooker. A filet mignon cooked to well-done tastes the same as that chuck, but is tough and costs several times more. It's a cut of meat specifically chosen for being edible and delicious without being thoroughly cooked all the way through, and you're torching it, completely defeating the point. If you want well-done meat I've got nothing against that, everyone has their preferences, but it's awfully silly to use an expensive cut of meat when a cheap one will taste the same and actually be more tender, hence a waste. Just buy some chuck and make a pot roast.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;50946937] if you sous vide chicken breast to ~145f or so and hold it there for about 3 hours, no more salmonella even though you never brought it to 165f [/QUOTE] Sous vides are great for cooking meat rarer when there still is some health risk posed by undercooking it. Heck, one of the first major uses of sous vide was in some Swiss hospitals to sterlize food.
[QUOTE=jiggu;50947254]Because you don't order tartar at any restaurant. You order it at an expensive place you trust that won't fuck your shit up, and even then it's difficult to make and requires a lot of procedures to keep it clean. If you eat a burger at anything below slightly pink you're asking to get sick and your doctor will just facepalm when he finds out why.[/QUOTE] Tartare isn't difficult to make, you just need fresh meat.
The only good way to eat meat is the way I cook it everyone else is a snob or barbarian.
While I certainly don't mind a well done burger over a well done steak, I'll still eat the fuck out of either a medium rare burger or medium rare steak.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;50944270]eh, the chances of anything serious happening, assuming you're not immunocompromised, is incredibly low, and you're probably more likely to get sick from touching the door knob entering the restaurant than from a slightly undercooked burger[/QUOTE] This is absolutely NOT true. Please don't spread misinformation, especially about food safety. As a Certified Food Safety Instructor and Handler, nothing pisses me off like this.
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50947347]Are you hearing yourself right now? Seriously what is it with steak fanatics that makes them absolutely religious about a matter of taste[/QUOTE] I've been made fun of for not liking red meat countless times, people should realize that taste is subjective and there's no good reason to be a dick to people for liking shit that you don't.
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