[QUOTE=Memobot;37298901]I hate atheists.
I describe myself as 'not associated with a recognised religion', just to distance myself from any ists or isms.
They're just as bad as religious fundamentalists, trying to impose a belief on someone.[/QUOTE]
Do you believe in god? No? You're an atheist. Therefore you hate yourself.
[QUOTE=Memobot;37298901]I hate atheists.
I describe myself as 'not associated with a recognised religion', just to distance myself from any ists or isms.
They're just as bad as religious fundamentalists, trying to impose a belief on someone.[/QUOTE]
i hate people who generalize an entire people under one single asinine and uneducated belief.
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37297955]I would've thought Protestantism given there are more Protestants than Catholics in the US.
Anyway, typical case of "ANY RELIGIOUS ICON IS PREACHING REGARDLESS OF CONTEXT". Its a piece of historical significance, not a religious thing - I don't remember any images of Buddhist whatsits being erected.[/QUOTE]
Then why can't the star and crescent be put along side it? Is it not a piece of historical significance?
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
Also:
"It was picked up, trimmed, polished, the word 'Jesus' was carved on top of it, it was prayed over in front of a church for five years, and then it was installed in the WTC memorial with no warning by a priest in a religious service where in the ground was consecrated."
Totally not a religious thing guys.
I'm sure that nobody is going to call it a not-religious artifact, but it does seem to have historical merit.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37299150]I'm sure that nobody is going to call it a not-religious artifact, but it does seem to have historical merit.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the historical merit of being a Christian artifact.
I'm pretty sure a Muslim for example wouldn't see this blatantly Christian symbol over this memorial of the 9/11 victims, some of who may have been relatives, in the same why a Christian would see it.
Pretty much it's all or nothing. If they are going to slap religious symbols on to the memorial they should include all of them.
[QUOTE=Bobie;37299049]i hate people who generalize an entire people under one single asinine and uneducated belief.[/QUOTE]
and people who can't read
not sure why you rated this dumb, bobie. it was a continuation of what you said
[QUOTE=thisispain;37297972]what!?!?
you couldn't be more wrong, in the 1960's JFK's Catholicism was one of the most controversial topics. the US culture is mostly based on the separatists who fled from the Church of England. the Founding Fathers were quite anti-clerical as well.[/QUOTE]
Oh wait it's "Christian" that covers the whole religion, not catholic, right ?
Shit I feel dumb right now, I meant Christian.
For fuck's sake, it's just a symbol. It's not systematically killing and oppressing those who don't believe in god, for fuck's sake. I'm an atheist and this is fucked up.
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;37299712]For fuck's sake, it's just a symbol. It's not systematically killing and oppressing those who don't believe in god, for fuck's sake. I'm an atheist and this is fucked up.[/QUOTE]
If it's just a symbol then why would anyone mind if it were removed?
The fact that this is a matter of contention is enough to show that this is more than just it being a symbol. It's what the symbol represents.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37299088]Then why can't the star and crescent be put along side it? Is it not a piece of historical significance?
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
Also:
"It was picked up, trimmed, polished, the word 'Jesus' was carved on top of it, it was prayed over in front of a church for five years, and then it was installed in the WTC memorial with no warning by a priest in a religious service where in the ground was consecrated."
Totally not a religious thing guys.[/QUOTE]
I'm under the assumption this cross was placed very soon after the towers fell, to become a symbol of hope and defiance. If I'm right, then it's a historically-significant artifact - so no, you can't retrospectively stick a bunch of other symbols there and claim they're just as valid when they aren't.
Also, the fact it has religious meaning is irrelevant. That'd be like demanding that all Jewish ornaments be removed from a Holocaust museum, or that every other religious icon be placed there as well.
This is why we cant have nice things. All you are doing is giving atheism a bad name and making yourself look like a class a tard, In front of billions of people.
This whole thing is just a non-issue. People are trying to find issues where there really aren't any.
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37299894]I'm under the assumption this cross was placed very soon after the towers fell, [B]to become a symbol of hope and defiance[/B]. [/quote]
(For Christians)
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37299894] so no, you can't retrospectively stick a bunch of other symbols there and claim they're just as valid when they aren't.[/quote]Says who?
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37299894]
Also, the fact it has religious meaning is irrelevant. That'd be like demanding that all Jewish ornaments be removed from a Holocaust museum, or that every other religious icon be placed there as well.[/QUOTE]
9/11 was an attack against the American people. The Holocaust was primarily an attack against all Jews. Pretty much around 60-65% of all European Jews were killed off during it.
Also I don't see why they can't put anything for the other victims of the Holocaust.
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37299977]This whole thing is just a non-issue. People are trying to find issues where there really aren't any.[/QUOTE]
Oh gee I had no idea that marking the 9/11 memorial as an exclusively Christian site was a non-issue when you can't even have a mosque anywhere remotely close to ground zero without Christians fighting tooth and nail to have it gone.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37299990](For Christians)
Says who?
9/11 was an attack against the American people. The Holocaust was primarily an attack against all Jews. Pretty much around 60-65% of all European Jews were killed off during it.
Also I don't see why they can't put anything for the other victims of the Holocaust.
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
Oh gee I had no idea that marking the 9/11 memorial as an exclusively Christian site was a non-issue when you can't even have a mosque anywhere remotely close to ground zero without Christians fighting tooth and nail to have it gone.[/QUOTE]
Do you even know what this cross is? It wasn't just knocked up a few days ago to make Christians feel good - it was found directly in the rubble, and erected some days later. It's a historical artifact, undeniably, and that's the only justification needed to place it in a museum - any attempt to remove it on the grounds it also happens to be a religious icon is political correctness gone mad.
fyi it's also not just a Christian thing - the Jewish ADL have also issued a statement saying they see no problem with it, nor are they demanding a huge menorah/etc be placed (and of course they can't - it wouldn't have any historical significance, it'd just be a shrine).
e: You're desperately trying to turn this cross into a sectarian challenge, when it wasn't/isn't.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37299990]Oh gee I had no idea that marking the 9/11 memorial as an exclusively Christian site was a non-issue when you can't even have a mosque anywhere remotely close to ground zero without Christians fighting tooth and nail to have it gone.[/QUOTE]
So first of, you make the mistake of considering the people who put the cross there and the people refusing to see a mosque the very same individuals, which is obviously not the case.
Second, having a cross there doesn't make it exclusively Christian, why would it be ? You make it sound like because it's there, it'll brainwash you and prevent you from thinking whatever you want about this.
I'd like to know how exactly this cross offends you so much you want it gone.
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37300092]It's a historical artifact, undeniably, and that's the only justification needed to place it in a museum[/QUOTE]
They aren't putting it in the museum as an artifact, they're putting it in the museum as a fucking memorial. If it just had a plaque in front of it that read "This cross was found in the wreckage, and treated by some Christians as a huge religious thing or whatever, who really gives a shit," [b]no one[/b] would be contesting it. It'd be another dusty relic in a museum. But it isn't. It's a public memorial that is [b]clearly and undeniably[/b] promoting a religion.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37300112]I'd like to know how exactly this cross offends you so much you want it gone.[/QUOTE]
I can't speak for Boxbot, but the fact that it's a clear violation of the law being almost completely overlooked because it's Christian in nature pisses me off.
Wait how is it violating any law ?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37300784]Wait how is it violating any law ?[/QUOTE]
[quote]"a violation of both federal and New York law in that public funds will be used to establish the Christian religion on public land."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37299150]I'm sure that nobody is going to call it a not-religious artifact, but it does seem to have historical merit.[/QUOTE]
To quote a certain famous adventurer, It belongs in a museum.
I don't know whether to take that as an actual statement of opinion or just an irresistible pop culture reference.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;37300112]
I'd like to know how exactly this cross offends you so much you want it gone.[/QUOTE]
I don't necessarily wan't it gone. I want the memorial to not be marked as exclusively Christian by symbolism.
They can keep the cross if they include the symbols of all others who were effected by 9/11.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37301514]I don't know whether to take that as an actual statement of opinion or just an irresistible pop culture reference.[/QUOTE]
It can be both.
I see nothing wrong with this. They should either include all faiths/non faiths, or none. To have a piece of support beam that was carved into the shape of a cross, and ONLY have that is just disrespectful.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;37301157]My point was the cross is nothing special and shouldn't be treated as some religious or historical monument. It's trash.[/QUOTE]
aight well sorry that you don't quite understand this whole "religion" thing but despite what you believe its a religious symbol
I bet these Atheists spend more time thinking about God than most Christians do.
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;37299202]and people who can't read
not sure why you rated this dumb, bobie. it was a continuation of what you said[/QUOTE]
i thought you were saying i couldn't read and then i got confused and scared and rated you dumb
im sorry bro :(
[QUOTE=Harry3;37303227]I bet these Atheists spend more time thinking about God than most Christians do.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37302941]I see nothing wrong with this. They should either include all faiths/non faiths, or none. To have a piece of support beam that was carved into the shape of a cross, and ONLY have that is just disrespectful.[/QUOTE]
No. You would have a valid point if they had just the cross and forbade any other kind of symbol or memorial - but no-one has done that. It's not disrespectful if other religions haven't tried putting up their own symbols.
By your logic, anything that represents something needs to be all-inclusive all it is disrespectful to other parties. I could argue that Gay Pride Parades are disrespectful of me because I am straight and the parade excludes my sexuality.
[QUOTE=David29;37303861]No. You would have a valid point if they had just the cross and forbade any other kind of symbol or memorial - but no-one has done that. It's not disrespectful if other religions haven't tried putting up their own symbols.
By your logic, anything that represents something needs to be all-inclusive all it is disrespectful to other parties. I could argue that Gay Pride Parades are disrespectful of me because I am straight and the parade excludes my sexuality.[/QUOTE]
Straight people are allowed to join gay pride parades. people will probably think you're gay though.
[QUOTE=David29;37303861]No. You would have a valid point if they had just the cross and forbade any other kind of symbol or memorial - but no-one has done that. It's not disrespectful if other religions haven't tried putting up their own symbols.
By your logic, anything that represents something needs to be all-inclusive all it is disrespectful to other parties. I could argue that Gay Pride Parades are disrespectful of me because I am straight and the parade excludes my sexuality.[/QUOTE]
I think your free to organize yourself a "Straight Pride Parade." If you want.
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