[QUOTE=Kybalt;37288051]how are you stupid enough to assume that every atheist there is represented with the same symbol? obviously if you were an atheist and you didn't want that symbol then you could get a different one.[/QUOTE]
That is my fucking point. The military puts those symbols on a atheists tombstone. You can't tell them to get a different one if you are dead.
This is why, as an Atheist, I fucking hate people sometimes.
[QUOTE=Zee Captain;37288107]You can't tell them to get a different one if you are dead.[/QUOTE]
Of course, that's why it's fucking planned out ahead of time!
[QUOTE=zombays;37288115]This is why, as an Atheist, I fucking hate people sometimes.[/QUOTE]
really? of all the reasons
[QUOTE=scout1;37288090]Yes... attack the most openminded government agency in existence.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers[/URL]
Look at this, seriously.
And if you have a problem with it you can ask ahead of time for a different gravestone if you get killed, otherwise they put it up AS A MEMORIAL.[/QUOTE]
Not all atheists wants to have that symbol. The main thing is that it should be blank because not all atheists are science loving nerds. Some just don't believe in anything. and a atom is clearly science related so dont give me that bullshit.
[QUOTE=Zee Captain;37288107]That is my fucking point. The military puts those symbols on a atheists tombstone. You can't tell them to get a different one if you are dead.[/QUOTE]
Then request a different one [b]before[/b] you fucking die.
[QUOTE=Zee Captain;37288159]Not all atheists wants to have that symbol. The main thing is that it should be blank because not all atheists are science loving nerds. Some just don't believe in anything. and a atom is clearly science related so dont give me that bullshit.[/QUOTE]
[b]A process is in place to consider approving additional religious or belief system emblems requested by the families of individuals eligible for these headstones and markers.[3][/b]
gee
[QUOTE=Paramud;37288179]Then request a different one [b]before[/b] you fucking die.[/QUOTE]
All the other tombstones are religious. They shouldn't have made the atheist one with a atom symbol and kept it blanked out.
[QUOTE=scout1;37288090]Yes... attack the most openminded government agency in existence.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers[/URL]
Look at this, seriously.
[/QUOTE]
They seem like a nice company, and they seem like they have nice intentions too, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pointless, unless specifically requested in their will. It kind of defeats the original purpose of having a religious symbol on your grave. Also I wouldn't want that symbol on my grave.
[QUOTE=Chocolate.;37287658]Why don't we just remove all the crosses from the graves in Normandy while we're at it.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
I mean yeah they should be using something to symbolize respect for all religions but taking down a cross isn't the way to send that sort of message.[/QUOTE]
probably the worst example seeing as the Normandy memorial is actually massively non-religious
just don't have any religious symbols at all. Emphasise the loss of life, not the loss of 'followers'.
look at most war memorials. I consider the korean war memorial to be a perfect example of how a memorial should be done. Nothing hugely overblown.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Korean_Memorial4.JPG/800px-Korean_Memorial4.JPG[/img]
this inspires more thought, empathy and emotion than any religious symbolism ever could for the most people.
[QUOTE=Zee Captain;37288202]All the other tombstones are religious. They shouldn't have made the atheist one with a atom symbol and kept it blanked out.[/QUOTE]
If you run the risk of fucking dying in your [b]day-to-day[/b] life, and you don't specifically let someone know what you want to happen when you die, you probably don't care about it.
If you do care about it,
[QUOTE=Paramud;37288179]Then request a different one [b]before[/b] you fucking die.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zee Captain;37288202]All the other tombstones are religious. They shouldn't have made the atheist one with a atom symbol and kept it blanked out.[/QUOTE]
[quote=Wikipedia]A process is in place to consider approving additional religious or belief system emblems requested by the families of individuals eligible for these headstones and markers.[3][/quote]
[quote=Wikipedia]A process is in place to consider approving additional religious or belief system emblems requested by the families of individuals eligible for these headstones and markers.[3][/quote]
[quote=Wikipedia]A process is in place to consider approving additional religious or belief system emblems requested by the families of individuals eligible for these headstones and markers.[3][/quote]
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;37288204]probably the worst example seeing as the Normandy memorial is actually massively non-religious
just don't have any religious symbols at all. Emphasise the loss of life, not the loss of 'followers'.
look at most war memorials. I consider the korean war memorial to be a perfect example of how a memorial should be done. Nothing hugely overblown.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Korean_Memorial4.JPG/800px-Korean_Memorial4.JPG[/img]
this inspires more thought, empathy and emotion than any religious symbolism ever could for the most people.[/QUOTE]
Or something like this
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Vietnam-memorial-soldier.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=mac338;37288203]They seem like a nice company, and they seem like they have nice intentions too, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pointless, unless specifically requested in their will. It kind of defeats the original purpose of having a religious symbol on your grave. Also I wouldn't want that symbol on my grave.[/QUOTE]
Man if I can ask, you seem like a nice fellow. You have Sagan as your avatar, though. Sagan was brilliant, but I find him to be kind of an asshole on religion matters. What's up with that?
[QUOTE=Kybalt;37288243][QUOTE=Kybalt;37288193][b]A process is in place to consider approving additional religious or belief system emblems requested by the families of individuals eligible for these headstones and markers.[3][/b]
gee[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Ight nigga chill out I didn't knew that until now.
Gee everybody makes mistakes.
Edit-
Tho it shouldnt be a atom symbol in the first place...
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=scout1;37288289]Man if I can ask, you seem like a nice fellow. You have Sagan as your avatar, though. Sagan was brilliant, but I find him to be kind of an asshole on religion matters. What's up with that?[/QUOTE]
I don't even know what Sagan's religious beliefs are to be honest, nor his views on religion. I like his books, and he doesn't talk about it in them, so I've just left it to that.
[QUOTE=mac338;37288312]I don't even know what Sagan's religious beliefs are to be honest, nor his views on religion. I like his books, and he doesn't talk about it in them, so I've just left it to that.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
[QUOTE=scout1;37288289]Sagan was brilliant, but I find him to be kind of an asshole on religion matters.[/QUOTE]
if you seriously think Dr. Sagan was an asshole when it came to talking about religion, I can tell you for free that either your view of him or your view of the world is warped beyond all recognition
[QUOTE=Turnips5;37288367]if you seriously think Dr. Sagan was an asshole when it came to talking about religion, I can tell you for free that either your view of him or your view of the world is warped beyond all recognition[/QUOTE]
Well thanks for turning a meaningful conversation into a "wow you are irreconcilably fucked up"
[QUOTE=scout1;37288395]Well thanks for turning a meaningful conversation into a "wow you are irreconcilably fucked up"[/QUOTE]
two things - it wasn't a meaningful conversation, and I didn't say you were irreconcilably fucked up
show me a quote that makes you think "wow, sagan was an ASSHOLE"
There are many ways they can replace the cross with to create a universal memorial for those that died.
A plaque, a statue, or a memorial wall. Since they plan to make a new building, they could dedicate the whole building to thoses that died, perhaps the wall in the lobby could list names, or a general message to those that died.
The cross is a religious symbol and always will be, it's just people gotten so used to seeing it used as a symbol for memorials that it seems like its a general universal symbol. But it still will be a symbol for Christians.
People seem to forget, this isn't an attack by Atheists on Christians, this is more of them wanting an equal memorial for all thoses that died. I bet one person in 9/11 was a satanist. I don't think a cross would be appropriate for them.
[QUOTE=Zee Captain;37288159]Some just don't believe in anything.[/QUOTE]
you did it again, motherfucker
I still don't see why they can't put up other symbols for religious beliefs. Seems only fair.
Still, a non-religious memorial would have been a good idea, but to replace the cross now would just cause problems.
It's somewhat safe to assume that Sagan was somewhere between pantheistic and agnostic. He's been known for his quote, "An atheist has to know a lot more than I do." He was just harsh on the idea that God was a white guy with a huge beard who dictated the universe in a thunderous voice.
Anyways, honestly it's hard not to blame people who would want the cross removed. I'll admit writing "Jesus" on it is probably too much, but I don't see any harm in the fact that it was blessed. Adding more symbols wouldn't be a bad idea, but it still doesn't help because it becomes a religious monument. Then what about the atheists? Well they shouldn't mind, should they?
[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;37288485]I bet one person in 9/11 was a satanist. I don't think a cross would be appropriate for them.[/QUOTE]
Well, not unless it was upside down or something. :v:
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;37288517]Well, not unless it was upside down or something. :v:[/QUOTE]
Actually a upside down cross symbolizes one of Jesus followers that was curfiied upside down because he said he wasn't worthy enough to die the same way as Jesus. So a upside down cross if more pro-christian then a regular one :v:
[IMG]http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/popecross.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;37287417]Who cares about atheism? What about the Muslims who died on 9/11? How do you think they would feel being memorialized by a cross? I don't have a problem with it myself, but this is a perfectly legitimate case.[/QUOTE]
Unless, you know, there was a significant historical background linking the cross to the event.
I think it would be nice to have the symbols of every religion that had members killed in the attack. Just to pay respect.
They're not pursuing this lawsuits because they're assholes, they're suing because they wanted EVERYBODY represented equally and were told that it wouldn't happen. I'd rather have all religions involved represented than just one, because it's not fair to those who died.
[QUOTE=sami-pso;37288756]Unless, you know, there was a significant historical background linking the cross to the event.[/QUOTE]
You mean like if that cross was found in the rubble and the people who found it thought it was significant enough to use as a memorial? But that's impossible!
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