[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37290826]The cross really doesn't bother me at all but I find it funny that you guys still care about 9/11, not that it wasn't a hofficic day but you guys seem to worship that date.[/QUOTE]
Over 3000 people where murdered in a few hours in a horrible way. People still care about it because it still effects them.
-snip-
Somehow double posted.
I didn't mean that the actual event wasn't horrible and something that you truly cant forget but still the large amount that you bring 9/11 up is just a bit weird from an outsiders perspective.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;37290812]Do you mean show respect by allowing Christians label all the victims of 9/11 as Christians?
I'm p sure a lot of the victims were muslims, jews, atheists, etc.
Putting up a cross is disrespectful to those people.[/QUOTE]
How about, I don't know, putting up symbols for other people then rather than completely taking it down?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;37290684]Why must all religious groups have equal representation? Its just something they found in the wreckage, they didnt ship it in or anything.[/QUOTE]
For starters, it's pretty obvious you'd find two metal beams in the shape of a cross in the wreckage of a building made out of overlapping metal beams. Wake me up when they find a star of david or a cresent and star in there.
Secondly, the whole reason they're doing it is "hurr durr thank u jebus, what a miracle these overlapping beams are"
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;37290904]I didn't mean that the actual event wasn't horrible and something that you truly cant forget but still the amount of things that you bring 9/11 up is just a bit weird from an outsiders perspective.[/QUOTE]
Well Its no doubt a bigger thing in the U.S than in other places. There are a lot of ridiculous things connected to it that shouldn't be, like building designs and what not.
I'm a bit aggressive about it because I hate when people are like "get the fuck over it" as though its nothing.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;37290935]How about, I don't know, putting up symbols for other people then rather than completely taking it down?[/QUOTE]
from the article:
Silverman said that the museum should either remove the cross or acknowledge everybody else who died in the tragedy in a manner equal to Christians.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;37290964]For starters, it's pretty obvious you'd find two metal beams in the shape of a cross in the wreckage of a building made out of overlapping metal beams. Wake me up when they find a star of david or a cresent and star in there.
Secondly, the whole reason they're doing it is "hurr durr thank u jebus, what a miracle these overlapping beams are"[/QUOTE]
Who cares? Honestly? It was originally meant as a sort of symbol of togetherness or peace. If someone wants to think of it religiously I really dont care.
[quote]We feel very strongly that this is an attempt to Christianize 9/11, to make it about Christians, even though it's not about Christians at all.[/quote]
This part pisses me off more than it probably should.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;37290869]Over 3000 people where murdered in a few hours in a horrible way. People still care about it because it still effects them.[/QUOTE]
People don't care about 9/11 "because it still affects them in their everyday lives," they care about it because it shook the foundation of White America's preconceptions of invulnerability about themselves. People around the world have been experiencing terrorism long before America did.
Extremist Atheists being dicks again.
We have this thing called 'tolerance'; it's pretty groovy. They should check it out.
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;37291075]People don't care about 9/11 "because it still affects them in their everyday lives," they care about it because it shook the foundation of White America's preconceptions of invulnerability about themselves. People around the world have been experiencing terrorism long before America did.[/QUOTE]
The events of 9/11 still does very much effect a lot of people who lost family members and friends. And yes it also did break a certain feeling of saftey, not bringing in the race bullshit.
You are also correct in that people around the world have been experiencing terrorism, no shit. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be a big deal in the U.S.
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;37291075]People don't care about 9/11 "because it still affects them in their everyday lives," they care about it because it shook the foundation of White America's preconceptions of invulnerability about themselves. People around the world have been experiencing terrorism long before America did.[/QUOTE]
Yeah guys you hear that? 9/11 was the only act of terrorism in America.
Ever.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;37290812]Do you mean show respect by allowing Christians label all the victims of 9/11 as Christians?
I'm p sure a lot of the victims were muslims, jews, atheists, etc.
Putting up a cross is disrespectful to those people.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying they should have written this monument was only for the Christians who died on 9/11? Because that would have been much more disrespectful imo.
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;37291075]People don't care about 9/11 "because it still affects them in their everyday lives," they care about it because it shook the foundation of White America's preconceptions of invulnerability about themselves. People around the world have been experiencing terrorism long before America did.[/QUOTE]
yeah not like 9/11 killed [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks]almost four times as many people[/url] as the next biggest thing
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37291113]Extremist Atheists being dicks again.
We have this thing called 'tolerance'; it's pretty groovy. They should check it out.[/QUOTE]
sorry tolerance isn't one side shitting all over the other.
the religious discourse in this country is very one sided. The Christians can do whatever the fuck they want and everyone else has to deal with it. Banning abortion/gay marriage? Welp guess that's ok because it would be intolerant of me to say that's a fucking stupid idea.
This isn't helped by the masochist atheists out there who enjoy the golden shower of christian stupidity.
That's quite some... sexual terminology you're using there.
Okay, some things posted have been pretty silly and it seems like some did not fully read the article before posting.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;37291013]Who cares? Honestly? It was originally meant as a sort of symbol of togetherness or peace. If someone wants to think of it religiously I really dont care.[/QUOTE]
In no way should a cross ever represent togetherness or peace. There are two possible ways to look at a cross, as a torture device to slowly and painfully kill people or as a religious symbol. There is no other way.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;37291013]Who cares? Honestly? It was originally meant as a sort of symbol of togetherness or peace. If someone wants to think of it religiously I really dont care.[/QUOTE]
In no way would putting a piece of paper over Jesus etched into it would help. The cross has been blessed and people have prayed to it at a church for years. It is a religious symbol being funded by the goverment and placed in a public setting.
[QUOTE=KommradKommisar;37290272]It appears to me the cross was made at the site. Made in the heat of the moment, not made for giving all the other religions the finger.
You guys are just getting mad at nothing.[sp]like always?[/sp][/QUOTE]
While the cross was made at the site it was then used for religious means for many years.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;37290357]Unfortunately. I really don't understand how someone can put some much time and effort into getting something removed that doesn't effect the in the least bit.[/QUOTE]
The problem is it is government money going to place the cross, if it was private property and a private entity funding it I wouldn't mind at all.
[QUOTE=Artice]Last year, American Atheists sued the museum for the cross' removal, arguing that the steel beam promoted religion. Its legal director, Edwin Kagin, argued that the display represents "a violation of both federal and New York law in that [b]public funds will be used to establish the Christian religion on public land."[/b][/quote]
[QUOTE=Artice]American Atheists' president, David Silverman, characterized the display as "a clear instance of a violation of the separation of church and state in its extreme."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Artice]"This shrine is a cross," Silverman told CBS News on Thursday. "It was picked up, trimmed, polished, the word 'Jesus' was carved on top of it, it was prayed over in front of a church for five years, and then it was installed in the WTC memorial with no warning by a priest in a religious service where in the ground was consecrated. This is a working Christian shrine in the memorial and then they had the gall to say it's not religious in nature, that it represents everybody.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Artice]Silverman said that the museum should either remove the cross or acknowledge everybody else who died in the tragedy in a manner equal to Christians.[/quote]
Sounds extremely reasonable to me and I am in full support of it.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37291113]Extremist Atheists being dicks again.
We have this thing called 'tolerance'; it's pretty groovy. They should check it out.[/QUOTE]
I am tolerant towards all religions. I am not tolerant of the government using tax payer money to establish one religion's symbol, it is not tolerant of other religions and beliefs.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37291113]Extremist Atheists being dicks again.
We have this thing called 'tolerance'; it's pretty groovy. They should check it out.[/QUOTE]
Taking legal routes to ensure the equal representation of all Americans
X-TREME *guitar riff*
Am I the only one who, as an atheist, doesn't give a shit what happens to me/how I'm remembered after I die? I mean I could have a cross for a tombstone and wouldn't give a shit. No religious symbol in the world would aggravate me enough to come back from the dead just so I could bitch.
[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;37287329]Have some respect, for fucks sake.
I'm an Atheist too, however this is taking it too far.[/QUOTE]
Guess we can't have respect for the muslims and jews that died there too eh? What about the buddhists and the hindus? do they not deserve any respect?
[QUOTE=Lambeth;37291680]Guess we can't have respect for the muslims and jews that died there too eh? What about the buddhists and the hindus? do they not deserve any respect?[/QUOTE]
Where in that article did it say that those people were being intentionally excluded?
It's a piece of wreckage that just so happens to look like a cross, so they ran with it. They're not intentionally trying to disrespect the people of other faiths who died during the attacks, and I honestly think that if there is an afterlife, the people who died don't really care about what's being used to memorialize their deaths, because they're still being remembered.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;37291113]Extremist Atheists being dicks again.
We have this thing called 'tolerance'; it's pretty groovy. They should check it out.[/QUOTE]
Hey, good reading there pal.
The 'dicks' in this story approached the 'tolerant' people rationally multiple times to ask if they would care to represent everyone equally, not just the Christians. The 'tolerant' people immediately assumed this was some sort of attempt by the 'dicks' to remove any and all signs of religion from the site, which was not at all what was asked, and is in fact quite the opposite of the reality.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;37291761]Where in that article did it say that those people were being intentionally excluded?
It's a piece of wreckage that just so happens to look like a cross, so they ran with it. They're not intentionally trying to disrespect the people of other faiths who died during the attacks, and I honestly think that if there is an afterlife, the people who died don't really care about what's being used to memorialize their deaths, because they're still being remembered.[/QUOTE]
yes, it is totally just a piece of the building that happened to look like a cross and was not trimmed, polished, etched into, and blessed. I love it when people just disregard the article and my fucking post. Yes it is totally just a cross and there is nothing wrong with it.
[QUOTE=Artice]"This shrine is a cross," Silverman told CBS News on Thursday. "It was picked up, trimmed, polished, the word 'Jesus' was carved on top of it, it was prayed over in front of a church for five years, and then it was installed in the WTC memorial with no warning by a priest in a religious service where in the ground was consecrated. This is a working Christian shrine in the memorial and then they had the gall to say it's not religious in nature, that it represents everybody.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;37291761]Where in that article did it say that those people were being intentionally excluded?
It's a piece of wreckage that just so happens to look like a cross, so they ran with it. They're not intentionally trying to disrespect the people of other faiths who died during the attacks, and I honestly think that if there is an afterlife, the people who died don't really care about what's being used to memorialize their deaths, because they're still being remembered.[/QUOTE]
[quote]"This shrine is a cross," Silverman told CBS News on Thursday. "It was picked up, trimmed, polished, the word 'Jesus' was carved on top of it, it was prayed over in front of a church for five years, and then it was installed in the WTC memorial with no warning by a priest in a religious service where in the ground was consecrated. This is a working Christian shrine in the memorial and then they had the gall to say it's not religious in nature, that it represents everybody. That's not true. It does not represent Jews, Muslims, Mormons or atheists, and they all had deaths on 9/11."[/quote]
so many self hating atheists
By not putting up symbols of other faiths I think people are being excluded.
[QUOTE=Chocolate.;37287658]Why don't we just remove all the crosses from the graves in Normandy while we're at it.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
I mean yeah they should be using something to symbolize respect for all religions but taking down a cross isn't the way to send that sort of message.[/QUOTE]
It never should have gone up in the first place.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;37291294]golden shower of christian stupidity.[/QUOTE]
for fuck's sake keep it down, elecbullet is around here somewhere
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37291321]That's quite some... sexual terminology you're using there.[/QUOTE]
TOO LATE
[QUOTE=MadPro119;37291806]yes, it is totally just a piece of the building that happened to look like a cross and was not trimmed, polished, etched into, and blessed. I love it when people just disregard the article and my fucking post. Yes it is totally just a cross and there is nothing wrong with it.[/QUOTE]
It was still the basic shape of a cross when they first discovered it, it's not like they found two separate pieces of rebar and welded them together. Also:
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;37287802][IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RgE0qLFNPT8/Tj1rEEOD59I/AAAAAAAAA6I/DYoPLGSBLZQ/s1600/aaacross11.jpg[/IMG]
Here's the "trimmed" and "polished" cross.[/QUOTE]
Stop acting like it's some big christian conspiracy to say "fuck you" to everyone who died who wasn't of the catholic faith, because that's not the case.
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