except it IS a christian symbol, it literally has jesus inscribed onto it, was blessed in a christian church and was prayed over by christians. there is no way you can say it's just a historic relic
...Or maybe it is both an historic relic and a Christian symbol, and by nature of being an historic relic it should be included.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
I don't know here, I am debating with myself.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
Is this cross any more worthy of inclusion or exclusion by nature of being not manufactured? Were it created by a Chinese sculptor or something to bolster the Christian faith, would it be more or less excusable?
[QUOTE=Ardosos;37293012]Why don't you explain it, then? I have yet to hear any logic at all behind this mindset.[/QUOTE]
god you're the absolute worst you always argue the shittiest point with the most smug and self-satisfied yet completely uninformed attitude
its because we live in a predominantly christian nation and a public shrine honouring the dead was chosen specifically to honour christian beliefs with no regard given to the hundreds of victims of a non-christian belief. even if you're an absolute mongoloid incapable of understanding the history of forced christian focus and domination in america, by having a monument to a sole ideology you are by definition shunning and excluding everyone else
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
the reason you haven't heard any logic behind the mindset is because you're incapable of reading a thread without quickly covering up everyone's arguments with your fat fingers and pretending you didn't read them
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
seriously a fucking mosque was the subject of public outrage for trying to be built a few blocks from ground zero (or whatever), completely discriminatory muslim-hating bullshit with no logical basis other than "brown people blew up the towers", yet people have trouble even identifying a fucking cross with "jesus" carved into it as being a symbol of christianity, get over yourself
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294271]...Or maybe it is both an historic relic and a Christian symbol, and by nature of being an historic relic it should be included.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
I don't know here, I am debating with myself.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
Is this cross any more worthy of inclusion or exclusion by nature of being not manufactured? Were it created by a Chinese sculptor or something to bolster the Christian faith, would it be more or less excusable?[/QUOTE]
that's why i said it's not JUST a christian symbol. i think it should be included but like the AA are saying i also think extra stuff should be put up to represent the multitude of people that died. i reckon it was retarded to inscribe jesus on it though
Im an atheist and at times im pretty extreme...
but as soon as i saw that title all i could say was "fuck off"
Pieces of shit... like seriously fuck these people.
Atheists should like the word "freedom" that everyone can believe what they want and how they want it because who are we to say otherwise... I want every religion to express themselves and allow everyone to practice what they believe how they believe it, but you should never force your views on someone thats unwilling, and shit like this just kills that image of what most atheists are. We are not a bad bunch and we are vocal but this just is so disrespectful...... they are no longer atheists in my book... just assholes.
I would be all for multiple monuments (including the cross), but I am so totally sure that American Atheists would demand that their monument be some shit totally devoted to shitting on religion in all its forms.
And as has been suggested, you would have some jerkass who claims that it is necessary to satisfy his atheism fetish by having a Flying Spaghetti Monster monument, or related bullshit.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;37294336]that's why i said it's not JUST a christian symbol. i think it should be included but like the AA are saying i also think extra stuff should be put up to represent the multitude of people that died. i reckon it was retarded to inscribe jesus on it though[/QUOTE]
Just the name "Jesus" has been given a retard connotation. Not to assail the religion in any way, but the stereotypical use of the word "jesus" is by an Alabamian redneck. That's what I picture.
[QUOTE=King of Limbs;37294357]Im an atheist and at times im pretty extreme...
but as soon as i saw that title all i could say was "fuck off"
Pieces of shit... like seriously fuck these people.
Atheists should like the word "freedom" that everyone can believe what they want and how they want it because who are we to say otherwise... I want every religion to express themselves and allow everyone to practice what they believe how they believe it, but you should never force your views on someone thats unwilling, and shit like this just kills that image of what most atheists are. We are not a bad bunch and we are vocal but this just is so disrespectful...... they are no longer atheists in my book... just assholes.[/QUOTE]
god whats with these shitty clockwork responses
every time an atheist group does something to promote public secularism (ie one of those things the country was founded on) people cry "too much!!! you took it too far!!". you can still have your religion you mongs you just cant have the government sponsor it, especially not sponsor a single one to the point where a technically "secular" nation is known for its ties to that faith
[QUOTE=King of Limbs;37294357]Im an atheist and at times im pretty extreme...
but as soon as i saw that title all i could say was "fuck off"
Pieces of shit... like seriously fuck these people.
Atheists should like the word "freedom" that everyone can believe what they want and how they want it because who are we to say otherwise... I want every religion to express themselves and allow everyone to practice what they believe how they believe it, but you should never force your views on someone thats unwilling, and shit like this just kills that image of what most atheists are. We are not a bad bunch and we are vocal but this just is so disrespectful...... they are no longer atheists in my book... just assholes.[/QUOTE]
Boy I wish there was like a rule where people had to read the entire article and not just the title before they posted here.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294359][B]I would be all for multiple monuments (including the cross), but I am so totally sure that American Atheists would demand that their monument be some shit totally devoted to shitting on religion in all its forms.[/B]
And as has been suggested, you would have some jerkass who claims that it is necessary to satisfy his atheism fetish by having a Flying Spaghetti Monster monument, or related bullshit.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
Just the name "Jesus" has been given a retard connotation. Not to assail the religion in any way, but the stereotypical use of the word "jesus" is by an Alabamian redneck. That's what I picture.[/QUOTE]
yep because giant atheist coalitions are all kids from reddit who think it'd be an epic win to make their shrine a flying spaghetti monster LOL!! no just kidding they're people who are trying to promote public secularism and prevent religious bias by the govt.
[QUOTE=King of Limbs;37294357]Im an atheist and at times im pretty extreme...
but as soon as i saw that title all i could say was "fuck off"
Pieces of shit... like seriously fuck these people.
Atheists should like the word "freedom" that everyone can believe what they want and how they want it because who are we to say otherwise... I want every religion to express themselves and allow everyone to practice what they believe how they believe it, but you should never force your views on someone thats unwilling, and shit like this just kills that image of what most atheists are. We are not a bad bunch and we are vocal but this just is so disrespectful...... they are no longer atheists in my book... just assholes.[/QUOTE]
maybe you should read the article, they are arguing that there should be something commemorating the beliefs or lack off of all the people that died in 9/11. not only that but i think the government doesn't have freedom of religion and this is public property and is government funded. and yeah this isn't forcing views on anyone, it's more like forcing christians to not force their views on everyone, which they have been doing for the past like 1500 years
whats with so many people on fp feeling like religion is sooo persecuted they immediately start shitting on atheism even though targeting the same stupid jokes about religion brings calls about how we need to be tolerant and kind?
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294359]I would be all for multiple monuments (including the cross), but I am so totally sure that American Atheists would demand that their monument be some shit totally devoted to shitting on religion in all its forms.
And as has been suggested, you would have some jerkass who claims that it is necessary to satisfy his atheism fetish by having a Flying Spaghetti Monster monument, or related bullshit.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
Just the name "Jesus" has been given a retard connotation. Not to assail the religion in any way, but the stereotypical use of the word "jesus" is by an Alabamian redneck. That's what I picture.[/QUOTE]
they should make a statue of one of the 9/11 firemen killing osama with his fireaxe i think that's something people of all religious backgrounds could get behind and it would look fuckin mean
[editline]18th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37294413]whats with so many people on fp feeling like religion is sooo persecuted they immediately start shitting on atheism even though targeting the same stupid jokes about religion brings calls about how we need to be tolerant and kind?[/QUOTE]
they want to be assholes about atheists apparently being assholes, meta as
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];37293909']I don't agree with AA on this one, but they are hardly as bad in this instance as everyone here is making them out to be.
It's not like they're just trying to remove the cross, as much as they are trying to make it level. As much as it's secular, the cross is a cross, and it was selected solely because it was a cross. That's the whole point of it becoming a monument. It's a Christian symbol monumented because of its Christian-symbol-ness, and now it's going to be placed in a public museum, with public funds, with no like monument for the other religions or lack-thereofs. I can definitely see AA's position. No one found a Star of David in the rubble and then worshiped it for years before being pushed by a rabbi to be included in a 9/11 memorial.
There are two ways that this piece can be looked at: as a memorial for those who died in 9/11, specifically the Christians, using a Christian symbol- or as a historic relic of 9/11, made historic because it was a cross. AA looks as it as the former, and not the latter. I personally see it as the latter and not the former. I think that it's clear that the Christians who pushed this is looking at it as the former as well, which is the issue. The intent is not as a secular monument for a historic 9/11, but a religiously-biased monument. I'm able to disregard this in favor of allowing the monument because of its historical worth.
We also have to remember what the cross meant at the time. It meant unity in nation, under the Christian God, and in defiance of the Muslims who attacked the WTC. We then went on a crusade and invaded 2 Islamic nations, toppling the leadership of one and maintaining a dictator in the other, hunting down Islamic extremists- both Taliban and Al Qaeda- and initiating combat in another 2 nations. The wave of mass discrimination that came against Muslims following the attack and the overall damage done to the religious relations, I don't think that it's [I]unreasonable[/I] to ask that a Christian religious symbol would be removed from the display in light of the religious antagonism on both sides, or that the religious symbol be matched by other religious symbols.[/QUOTE]
If it's so historic, then why don't we display it upside down? I'm sure all the christians would love that.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._Peter[/url]
how about a statue of a plane like the 9/11 ones but instead of plane wings it has angel wings
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37294406]yep because giant atheist coalitions are all kids from reddit who think it'd be an epic win to make their shrine a flying spaghetti monster LOL!! no just kidding they're people who are trying to promote public secularism and prevent religious bias by the govt.[/QUOTE]
[quote]And a display with photographs depicting King Neptune, Jesus Christ, Santa Claus and Satan reads, "Million Americans know MYTHS when they see them. What myths do you see? American Atheists. Since 1963. athiests.org."[/quote]
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-messages-displace-ca-park-nativity-scenes-194651974.html[/url]
That's just cruel, and that's just shitting all over every religion. And they'd probably want some similar bullshit here that would make the monument unpleasant for practically everyone.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294458][url]http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-messages-displace-ca-park-nativity-scenes-194651974.html[/url]
That's just cruel, and that's just shitting all over every religion. And they'd probably want some similar bullshit here that would make the monument unpleasant for practically everyone.[/QUOTE]
i doubt anyone would be so petty as to use a 9/11 memorial to push an agenda (unless of course it's a christian one)
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;37294449]how about a statue of a plane like the 9/11 ones but instead of plane wings it has angel wings[/QUOTE]
That would send the wrong message, seeing as planes crashed into the towers and the wings would make it seem like divine action, which would probably piss off damn near everyone.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;37287315]Good job guys. Adding to the stereotype that all atheists are superficial people who want to remove "under one god" from coins and the national anthem.
[/QUOTE]
What national anthem are you listening to that mentions god? Also, it shouldn't be in the pledge of allegiance or on coins. They only added the phrase to the pledge of allegiance in the 1950s.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294458][url]http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-messages-displace-ca-park-nativity-scenes-194651974.html[/url]
That's just cruel, and that's just shitting all over every religion. And they'd probably want some similar bullshit here that would make the monument unpleasant for practically everyone.[/QUOTE]
yes clearly a local nativity scene is a very serious situation that must be treated with the utmost respect unlike a memorial for those killed in one of the most horrific attacks on america that has ever occurred. i'm sure that's why in the lawsuit they're asking the museum to erect a statue depicting the flying spaghett-- wait whats this.. they aren't? weird!
[QUOTE=The_J_Hat;37294511]That would send the wrong message, seeing as planes crashed into the towers and the wings would make it seem like divine action, which would probably piss off damn near everyone.[/QUOTE]
alright then back to the idea about a fireman axing down osama. fuck that'd be sick as
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism[/url]
[quote]Satanism is a group of religions crazy people that win at state fairs all day and they are board of win so they become fails and follow a man with no paints and long ears and shits in the back of the room and tells no one about it thats a short story of the satanism history.[/quote]
lmao
[QUOTE=Kopimi;37294526]yes clearly a local nativity scene is a very serious situation that must be treated with the utmost respect unlike a memorial for those killed in one of the most horrific attacks on america that has ever occurred. i'm sure that's why in the lawsuit they're asking the museum to erect a statue depicting the flying spaghett-- wait whats this.. they aren't? weird![/QUOTE]
I didn't necessarily say that they would do the FSM, American Atheists. They're too pretentious and haughty for that.
We don't know [I]what[/I] they'd say. For all I know, they might say something completely respectful. "In memory of the victims of the September 11th terrorist attacks who did not subscribe to any religion". That'd be nice. Surely some morons would oppose that, but it seems nice enough.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294545]I didn't necessarily say that they would do the FSM, American Atheists. They're too pretentious and haughty for that.
We don't know [I]what[/I] they'd say. For all I know, they might say something completely respectful. "In memory of the victims of the September 11th terrorist attacks who did not subscribe to any religion". That'd be nice. Surely some morons would oppose that, but it seems nice enough.[/QUOTE]
so maybe instead of crying about a hypothetical made up situation you should wait until it becomes an actual issue and then complain about it?
I do rather enjoy having the right to say "I told you so" in the event that it does occur.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294593]I do rather enjoy having the right to say "I told you so" in the event that it does occur.[/QUOTE]
well yeah would hate to deprive you of indulging in the urge to shit on atheists
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294593]I do rather enjoy having the right to say "I told you so" in the event that it does occur.[/QUOTE]
You'd be a complete idiot if you thought that that event would occur.
this whole thread is literally people just shitting on a minority group but because it's 'smug atheist assholes' that's somehow ok
AA has a history.
so do christians
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;37294625]AA has a history.[/QUOTE]
uh well christians fucking massacred people a couple of times in history but i'm not planning on saying "i told you so" when they massacre some people again in the future?
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