Tunisia attack: locals formed human shield to protect tourists - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Nabile13;48080951]It is stated on ours to adapt to our society. We should do our best to follow anything that is possible. And we still respect other human beings. We aren't monsters. As for the other question, this is personal preference. I believe in this theory, and it is as valid as any other.[/QUOTE] Validity of things isn't based on what we feel though. I don't care about what we feel, it's what's real that matters

[QUOTE=_Axel;48079416]Well now I know what I'll do if I ever end up in a situation like that. I'm off to get a tan and grow some beard, maybe learn some Arabic on the side.[/QUOTE] Derka derka muhammed jihad.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48080955]Validity of things isn't based on what we feel though. I don't care about what we feel, it's what's real that matters[/QUOTE] This is your opinion, and not others. They can believe in what they want, and we respect that.

So when you decide based on arbitrary feelings that "This is the god that really exists" are you then responsible for your actions if that gods rules decree that you must harm other people? What if your religion demands human sacrifice? Again, you're believing in the all powerful god, who are you to go against him? This is my point. When you believe in something that is all mighty, and all powerful, you absolve yourself of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY through the use of your god. No, this isn't what all religious people do, this is however, something limited to the religious believer. [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Trebgarta;48080976]There are 3.5 billion people believing in such Abrahamic religions on this planet and I bet yearly rate of stoning disobedient children, or ffs murdering homosexuals wouldn't be over %1. Of course you don't need them, but religions aren't going anywhere soon. Blindly hating them does no one no justice at all, it just breeds more hatred. You also don't NEED to dislike religions either.[/QUOTE] I don't dislike religions. I wish they weren't here. Oh no, it's not like I've been told to my face I'm a mistake of god and should kill myself by christians and muslims? Where's the tolerance? My point is people are PERSONALLY picking and choosing those things. They're not following they're holy book. They have good moral judgement if they're doing that so why do they need their religion? "Blind hate"? Really? So, basically, you're going to say that I've got no valid feelings or thoughts on the matter because "Blind hate" even though I'm anything but blinded, or hateful? I've said clearly in this dicussion "I would never take it away from anyone". But okay, lets run with your fucking "blind hate strawman".

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48080985]So when you decide based on arbitrary feelings that "This is the god that really exists" are you then responsible for your actions if that gods rules decree that you must harm other people? What if your religion demands human sacrifice? Again, you're believing in the all powerful god, who are you to go against him? This is my point. When you believe in something that is all mighty, and all powerful, you absolve yourself of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY through the use of your god. No, this isn't what all religious people do, this is however, something limited to the religious believer.[/QUOTE] Blame the misinterpretation of the believer. And their failure at adapting to our world. Apart from that, there is no reason to hate on religion.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;48080972]This is your opinion, and not others. They can believe in what they want, and we respect that.[/QUOTE] Yes. But if you believed that killing me would bring you closer to god, would you respect that?

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48080275]It doesn't exist? You literally have a member here(now permabanned) that said and I quote: 'you are a naive fool if you think Islam's values are compatible with modern day world' [/QUOTE] And controversial as it is these days, he does actually make a valid point there. You really cannot say with a straight face that the Saudi Arabian law is as modern as the Dutch law, for example. I am all for moderate Islamic immigrants who actually adapt to the countries they immigrate to, who want to live peacefully with other folks. But if radical muslims who live here want to erect the Sharia law here, just to be intolerant against our Western way of life, why do said extremists even live in Europa? Go live in Saudi Arabia then if you want to live under sharia law that much. We are the frontrunners in freedom of speech, we actually allow people to speak up their minds about it without fearing to be legally persecuted, and we shouldn't forget that it goes both ways. They legally may publicly protest our laws, while we are being the frontrunners in human rights but conflicting with their beliefs, and we may legally call them out for wanting to do away with human rights that have been standard here for decades.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;48081006]Blame the misinterpretation of the believer. And their failure at adapting to our world. Apart from that, there is no reason to hate on religion.[/QUOTE] So I should just expect everyone to know better than to do what their god tells them to do in their holy book? so again, what is the point of religion when you white wash into being a non existant belief system

Why do you act like that every religious person is a radical brainwashed individual?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48081007]Yes. But if you believed that killing me would bring you closer to god, would you respect that?[/QUOTE] No, of course not. This is because people are warping the truth from the religion and using it to abuse others. Not only this, but my religion strictly forbids murder, and even spilling blood from another human being, so this invalidates any order involving this.

[QUOTE=Swilly;48079798]When even the mods on facepunch participate in the hivemind that doesn't exist. Good job.[/QUOTE] kinda hard to take this seriously when people believe that the opposite exists as some kind of internal conspiracy against fp

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48081012]So I should just expect everyone to know better than to do what their god tells them to do in their holy book? so again, what is the point of religion when you white wash into being a non existant belief system[/QUOTE] So what do you suggest, then ?

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48080847]i didn't expect spirit_breaker to let loose in this thread and conjure the worst stuff possible one can put out of their mouth[/QUOTE] BDA lured him a little too well [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=PieClock;48079094]I've been keeping up on this because my mum was staying 3 miles away from there a couple of months ago, so it struck a lot of interest in me. A lot of heroes seemed to show their face that day. - These guys forming the wall. - The guy who used himself as a shield for his wife, taking 3 bullets for her, then continuing to comfort an elderly man who was hit. - Then the 16 year old who got grazed by a bullet that killed one of the 3 members of his family who got killed, who also went on to comfort a woman who was hit. Really have to respect all these people.[/QUOTE] fucking amazing humility

why is bda to blame for luring spirit_breaker

[QUOTE=Nabile13;48080795]But what if people are just fine with it ? Religion is a theory that is as equal as any other. I'm not against your idea that religion is a bad thing, I'm against people that hates it and discriminates the people that practice it. When we use the term "atheist" to describe horrible events commited by them, we're just making it clear that it's not the religion's fault for causing these things to happen, but from the individuals themselves, since it's a misconception that is widespread. Religion is often used as a shield to perpetrate horrible stuff, that doesn't make it a bad thing. Even without religion there's going to be something else to use as a pretext to commit horrible things.[/QUOTE] I agree with you to some extent but I don't think it's fair to say that religion is used as a shield when you often can find things that condone the atrocity committed in it's teachings and central texts. What you are saying (or how I understand it at least) is basically that religion is like a gun. The gun itself is not evil and can be used both for good and bad so it is the person holding it that should be held solely responsible. In my opinion religion is more like a gun with a post-it note on it, telling you how to use it. I think religion is partly responsible for the extremism we see today and I can openly say that I dislike Islam and I am not very fond of other religions either.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48081104]why is bda to blame for luring spirit_breaker[/QUOTE] joke, cause it's what got him pbanned

[QUOTE=maeZtro;48081105]I agree with you to some extent but I don't think it's fair to say that religion is used as a shield when you often can find things that condone the atrocity committed in it's teachings and central texts. What you are saying (or how I understand it at least) is basically that religion is like a gun. The gun itself is not evil and can be used both for good and bad so it is the person holding it that should be held solely responsible. In my opinion religion is more like a gun with a post-it note on it, telling you how to use it. I think religion is partly responsible for the extremism we see today and I can openly say that I dislike Islam and I am not very fond of other religions either.[/QUOTE] People often disregard what benefits a certain religion has brought on their people. It's easier to look at what wrong something has done without aknowledging the other side of the story. You might not have heard of the other side of the story, hence your hate for it. At the end of the day, all the sad things that have happened have been caused by human beings. We aren't perfect.

Tunisia's a beautiful place and the people are pretty much universally wonderful, honestly I'd go back and visit even though it is so dangerous. If I were religious I'd be praying for them.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;48081043]Okay, Netherlands is awesome. But, how is Saudi Law, or even Shariah Law, Islam's [I]unchanging [/I]values? Italic, because they can change. They did change. Majority of muslims live under a different lawset than Shariah law, and have no problems with it. So, he doesn't make a point. Nobody cares what etremists' values are. It'd be like calling KKK values, American values or Torah, Jewish Values. None of them are true.[/QUOTE] It might be a bit of a out-of-the-field question, but what is your opinion on that in the majority of Islamic countries homosexuality is a crime even without a Shariah law?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48080855]If all good deeds are done in the name of religion, then atheists such as myself are fully incapable of committing "good deeds". So, because we know atheists are capable of doing good deeds, it would seem that religion is not the source of good deeds, but basic human emapthy is. People don't need religion to be good. But as the famous saying goes It takes religion to make a good man do evil things. [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] So not liking religion is now being a xenophobic? I'm sorry, but what?[/QUOTE] I'm not saying all. The post is saying it about this specific incident.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48079002]This does not jive with Facepunch's narrative of Muslims being violent, immoral savages, Swebo. Gonna have to have to ask you to find some more damning examples in the future.[/QUOTE] I'm confused, in most threads in FP the Islamaphobic guy is the guy (rightfully) being shat on. Also ratings.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;48080875]killuah i think you mean 'islamophobia'[/QUOTE] mainly but it's also xenophobic since the religion still is pretty foreign and thus "xeno" to our society

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;48081036]Why do you act like that every religious person is a radical brainwashed individual?[/QUOTE] How closely are you reading what I'm saying? Oh, not very? Oh, well, that would explain why you think I'm saying this, when I'm clearly not. However, I have made it a clear stance of mine that religion allows for brainwashing like that. Am I saying they all are? No, in fact, I took great pains earlier to say that not all religious people are like that. But that it has the capacity for that in a way no ideology has because nothing but religion can claim the almighty god to be in their corner. That's my point. Not that all religious people are brainwashed and by saying that's what I'm saying, you prove to me that you don't care enough to read what I'm saying, that you were offended and reacted with that offense and didn't bother to look at what I was saying outside of your offended perspective. I don't believe all religious people are brainwahed. In fact, when I've been saying, and pointing out is that MOST religious people are ALREADY making their own decisions as to what is and isn't moral. They're already USING their own moral compass, and NOT gods. That's MY fucking point! [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Nabile13;48081183]People often disregard what benefits a certain religion has brought on their people. It's easier to look at what wrong something has done without aknowledging the other side of the story. You might not have heard of the other side of the story, hence your hate for it. At the end of the day, all the sad things that have happened have been caused by human beings. We aren't perfect.[/QUOTE] I've heard more than a thousand stories of good deeds that religious people do. But i've heard a massive more number of things and times and events where they were the villain causing pain, and suffering across swathes of land. I can know both sides and still hold my view that religion as a whole, isn't useful to us anymore.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48081299]How closely are you reading what I'm saying? Oh, not very? Oh, well, that would explain why you think I'm saying this, when I'm clearly not. However, I have made it a clear stance of mine that religion allows for brainwashing like that. Am I saying they all are? No, in fact, I took great pains earlier to say that not all religious people are like that. But that it has the capacity for that in a way no ideology has because nothing but religion can claim the almighty god to be in their corner. That's my point. Not that all religious people are brainwashed and by saying that's what I'm saying, you prove to me that you don't care enough to read what I'm saying, that you were offended and reacted with that offense and didn't bother to look at what I was saying outside of your offended perspective. I don't believe all religious people are brainwahed. In fact, when I've been saying, and pointing out is that MOST religious people are ALREADY making their own decisions as to what is and isn't moral. They're already USING their own moral compass, and NOT gods. That's MY fucking point![/QUOTE] you're crossing the line to getting a little bit too worked up and obnoxious especially in the first part of that post.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;48081067]So what do you suggest, then ?[/QUOTE] People just start making their own minds up about religion realizing that they're either going to follow gods word to the letter, as their religion says they should, or they realize that their whole life they've been capable of making moral decisions, and have been practicing making moral decisions their whole lives and god had nothing to do with them being morally good people. I'm not saying "Ban religion" or "I hate religion" so I'm kind of tired of this thread putting words in my mouth. [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Killuah;48081311]you're crossing the line to getting a little bit too worked up and obnoxious especially in the first part of that post.[/QUOTE] OH my bad, keep putting words in my mouth then

[QUOTE=Rossy167;48081282]I'm confused, in most threads in FP the Islamaphobic guy is the guy (rightfully) being shat on. Also ratings.[/QUOTE] You have to remember that when there's a large group that agrees with bda it's just a lot of intelligent people who independently came to the correct conclusion, but when it's a large group that disagree with bda, then it's a hivemind of idiots.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48081319] OH my bad, keep putting words in my mouth then[/QUOTE] I'm just informing you since it looks like you don't know how you sound to us right now.

[QUOTE=Killuah;48081351]I'm just informing you since it looks like you don't know how you sound to us right now.[/QUOTE] And i'm informing you that I'm not a fan of people ignoring what I say and putting words in my mouth to bolster their own argument. Sure my tone is shitty there but there's going to be no apology from people who put words in my mouth it would seem, so there's a disparity there. You care about my tone, but not about the illformed assertions that caused me to have my tone. It's hypocrisy. I mean what's the point in me writing in caveats to my argument JUST to show I don't think it's all of a group, to avoid making a generalization, when people who disagree with me will just say things like "Why do you think all religious people are brainwashed" in response to a post that SPECIFICALLY said I don't think religious people are brainwashed.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;48081183]People often disregard what benefits a certain religion has brought on their people. It's easier to look at what wrong something has done without aknowledging the other side of the story. You might not have heard of the other side of the story, hence your hate for it. At the end of the day, all the sad things that have happened have been caused by human beings. We aren't perfect.[/QUOTE] I am not disputing the fact that religion has a lot of good morals and people have done great things inspired by religion, I just think that if you give a religion credit for something good you should give it credit for the bad things as well. As to why I dislike religion, (I wouldn't go as far as saying i hate it) atheists can be inspired to do all the good things that a believer can but atheist can not be inspired to do all the bad things a believer can (unless they are mad). A sane Muslim who wholeheartedly believes in the qur'an or hadiths could for example kill or at least punish someone (depending on your interpretation) for apostasy.

[QUOTE=maeZtro;48081378]I am not disputing the fact that religion has a lot of good morals and people have done great things inspired by religion, I just think that if you give a religion credit for something good you should give it credit for the bad things as well. As to why I dislike religion, (I wouldn't go as far as saying i hate it) atheists can be inspired to do all the good things that a believer can but atheist can not be inspired to do all the bad things a believer can (unless they are mad). A sane Muslim who wholeheartedly believes in the qur'an or hadiths could for example kill or at least punish someone (depending on your interpretation) for apostasy.[/QUOTE] I would argue that the logical conclusions of atheism are the result of atheism in the same way that the logical conclusions of religion are the result of religion. For example, many atheists have come to the conclusion that human life doesn't hold any inherent value. This leads to things like interest in the hardcore eugenics of of the late 1800's and 1900's.