Borderlands 2 Writer Outs Destructoid As Corrupt In Wake Of #GamerGate - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45893569]lol [I]playing [/I]games isn't taking in art isn't itself art unless you're doing it in some performance capacity[/quote] some speed runs are pretty artistic.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893016]But that doesn't mean anything. The point I'm trying to make is that [i]there is no gaming monoculture[/i] anymore so anyone getting huffy and personally offended and indignant over the twitter insults lobbed in the direction of "gamers" are defending nothing. They're hitching their horses to a post which doesn't exist.[/QUOTE] There are many subsets of Christianity, like Judeo-Christian, Protestant, and Catholic, but they all identify as Christian. (I could be wrong about names, but the point is there.)

[QUOTE=john_pelphre;45893585]some speed runs are pretty artistic.[/QUOTE] yeah if you're doing it for an audience and putting it up to be viewed it's entertainment which by extent is a form of art, same with streaming

[QUOTE=john_pelphre;45893572]Yeah, its ridiculous, but people still will fit in a subset of a culture. I'd also argue someone's expression through a medium becomes representative of the culture. Artists of any medium fall in that subset of the culture.[/QUOTE] Playing video games is cool and just fine, I do it all the time. Having a passion for games is great. Getting indignant about "anti-gamer prejudice" and mean words said about gamers on twitter, however, is really silly because it doesn't mean anything. The fact that it doesn't mean anything is what sets it apart from mean words said about races of people, or sexes, or other more meaningful varieties of identities, and that is why drawing analogies between real identities and meaningless identities is bad and rhetorically dishonest. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Rangergxi;45893581]A gamer is just somebody who regularly plays videogames. Its as basic as that. We don't have a term for people who watch movies because practically [B]everybody[/B] watches movies.[/QUOTE] Everybody plays video games now too. If they're not playing traditional roguelikes or competitive starcraft then they're playing candy crush on their phone or wii bowling when their friends come over. "Gamer" is done, it's finished.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45893599]yeah if you're doing it for an audience and putting it up to be viewed it's entertainment which by extent is a form of art, same with streaming[/QUOTE] So then why wouldn't the people who enjoy it be apart of that culture? With their own lexicon and their own beliefs?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893573]Yeah, and I said: It's not wrong to make jokes at the expense of people who play video games because, and you can quote me on this: "lol who cares. It's just video games."[/QUOTE] I don't know if you are this stupid or are you trolling at this point. I'm not talking shit now I'm being serious. For the third time. Read twice this before you reply this time. I am not comparing the situation of black people with the situation of gamers. I am comparing judging all black people based on what few black people did to judging all gamers based on what few gamers did. I can't make myself clearer than this. For like 20th time. You have to be an idiot to judge millions of people regardless the group they are in, based on actions of few people from that group. Do you agree with this statement or do you actually think that you can judge millions of people based on what few people from that group did? And no stawman this time.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45893581]A gamer is just somebody who regularly plays videogames. Its as basic as that. We don't have a term for people who watch movies because practically [B]everybody[/B] watches movies.[/QUOTE] It's a pointless buzzword that doesn't actually tell you anything. Half the population plays games regularly. Until you start breaking it down to specific subsets like competitive gamers, mobile gamers, strategy gamers, there is no way to derive any shared cultural identity from the word "gamer".

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45893649]It's a pointless buzzword that doesn't actually tell you anything. Half the population plays games regularly. Until you start breaking it down to specific subsets like competitive gamers, mobile gamers, strategy gamers, there is no way to derive any shared cultural identity from the word "gamer".[/QUOTE] And yet it's fine to put all these people in one bag for some reason.

[QUOTE=john_pelphre;45893629]So then why wouldn't the people who enjoy it be apart of that culture? With their own lexicon and their own beliefs?[/QUOTE] ah but they would, it's just much more specific than "gamer". Twitch has a culture. It's not gamer culture, it's Twitch. Let's Players have a culture that's entirely different. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;45893672]And yet it's fine to put all these people in one bag for some reason.[/QUOTE] no I don't think you're understanding sigma's argument at all if that's what you think he's saying because he's literally saying the opposite

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45893674]ah but they would, it's just much more specific than "gamer". Twitch has a culture. It's not gamer culture, it's Twitch. Let's Players have a culture that's entirely different. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] no I don't think you're understanding sigma's argument at all if that's what you think he's saying because he's literally saying the opposite[/QUOTE] I can agree with that, but then the buzzword of gamers ignore those people a feelings doesnt it?

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45893674]no I don't think you're understanding sigma's argument at all if that's what you think he's saying because he's literally saying the opposite[/QUOTE] I kinda get what his argument is, the point is that he's using the word gamers. Which is equal to "people who play video games" and he's making statements about them, which is like you said half of the population. It doesn't matter what his personal definition of gamer is.

I have another question for people in this thread: what do you call someone who plays video games?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893607]Playing video games is cool and just fine, I do it all the time. Having a passion for games is great. Getting indignant about "anti-gamer prejudice" and mean words said about gamers on twitter, however, is really silly because it doesn't mean anything. The fact that it doesn't mean anything is what sets it apart from mean words said about races of people, or sexes, or other more meaningful varieties of identities, and that is why drawing analogies between real identities and meaningless identities is bad and rhetorically dishonest. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] Everybody plays video games now too. If they're not playing traditional roguelikes or competitive starcraft then they're playing candy crush on their phone or wii bowling when their friends come over. "Gamer" is done, it's finished.[/QUOTE] I really hope I'm not coming out as saying nigger and calling someone a gamer as an insult are on the same level. But it does have this feeling that people have been using this comparison to out people as lowly people who have no lives, when the culture is more diverse.

[QUOTE=Turnips5;45893726]I have another question for people in this thread: what do you call someone who plays video games?[/QUOTE] fuccboi

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45893701]I kinda get what his argument is, the point is that he's using the word gamers. Which is equal to "people who play video games" and he's making statements about them, which is like you said half of the population. It doesn't matter what his personal definition of gamer is.[/QUOTE] So, I've got two points: A: If you are a gamer who [I]doesn't[/I] harass women then you have no reason to be upset when I say "hey gamers, stop harassing women." You can rest easy with the knowledge that, since you don't do that thing, I am not talking about you. Likewise, when I say "gamers are goddang creeps," you should be able to appreciate the [I]context[/I] of that statement and understand that, no, I'm not literally saying that everyone who has ever played a video game is a creep. I am instead merely conveying the impression that self-described "gamers" are creeps because of things I have recently seen self-described "gamers" do and that I hope that someone sympathetic to that impression would be conscientious enough not to nitpick it. This is natural human language and so, of course, when you levy weird pedantic scrutiny at it it starts to fall apart. B: You can't draw an analogy between saying that and saying stereotypical stuff about black people because, as I explained (and you said you "kinda get"), that is patently different than saying stereotypical stuff about gamers because there are [I]larger social ramifications[/I] of saying racist stuff about black people.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893770]So, I've got two points: A: If you are a gamer who [i]doesn't[/i] harass women then you have no reason to be upset when I say "hey gamers, stop harassing women." You can rest easy with the knowledge that, since you don't do that thing, I am not talking about you. B: You can't draw an analogy between saying that and saying stereotypical stuff about black people because, as I explained (and you said you "kinda get"), that is patently different than saying stereotypical stuff about gamers because there are [i]larger social ramifications[/i] of saying racist stuff about black people.[/QUOTE] So basically you're just saying that because there are less consequences to generalizing gamers in a negative way, that somehow excuses it. I'm sorry, but you're just not making sense. People who participate in a hobby (in this case video games) are going to feel insulted when they are negatively stereotyped, even if they themselves do not embody those stereotypes. That happens for EVERYTHING. If we could go back in time and the people involved in this could have handled things right, they would be EXPLICIT that it is a [I]segment[/I] of the gaming population, not gamers as a whole. Anytime you generalize or use a label that describes THAT many people, you're inviting the possibility of a blacklash against what you're saying. People should be careful about how they word things, and that goes double on the internet where, outside of emoticons, it is damn near impossible to read any kind of tone or inflection.

[QUOTE=john_pelphre;45892498] What was wrong with this? Like, why is is fucked up that she did that short? All of the TF2 shorts are great, and the one with Miss Pauling is funny as all hell.[/QUOTE] He might just be referring to as "wow how weird is that", my friends have said the same thing as Burch with that kind of meaning. Also, I doubt he would insult his sister's work. (he's still a complete hack)

[QUOTE=Saber15;45893795]He might just be referring to as "wow how weird is that", my friends have said the same thing as Burch with that kind of meaning. Also, I doubt he would insult his sister's work. (he's still a complete hack)[/QUOTE] Wow, I've never heard of that. Thanks for informing me!

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45893790]So basically you're just saying that because there are less consequences to generalizing gamers in a negative way, that somehow excuses it. [/QUOTE] Yes. [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45893790]People should be careful about how they word things, and that goes double on the internet where, outside of emoticons, it is damn near impossible to read any kind of tone or inflection.[/QUOTE] I agree. But I think people should pick their battles, and I think that "gamer" is the absolute worst battle of them all.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893770]So, I've got two points: A: If you are a gamer who [I]doesn't[/I] harass women then you have no reason to be upset when I say "hey gamers, stop harassing women." You can rest easy with the knowledge that, since you don't do that thing, I am not talking about you. Likewise, when I say "gamers are goddang creeps," you should be able to appreciate the [I]context[/I] of that statement and understand that, no, I'm not literally saying that everyone who has ever played a video game is a creep. I am instead merely conveying the impression that self-described "gamers" are creeps because of things I have recently seen self-described "gamers" do and that I hope that someone sympathetic to that impression would be conscientious enough not to nitpick it. This is natural human language and so, of course, when you levy weird pedantic scrutiny at it it starts to fall apart. B: You can't draw an analogy between saying that and saying stereotypical stuff about black people because, as I explained (and you said you "kinda get"), that is patently different than saying stereotypical stuff about gamers because there are [I]larger social ramifications[/I] of saying racist stuff about black people.[/QUOTE] [B]I'm fine with insulting people as long as I can convince myself I don't like them.[/B]

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893770]So, I've got two points: A: If you are a gamer who [i]doesn't[/i] harass women then you have no reason to be upset when I say "hey gamers, stop harassing women." You can rest easy with the knowledge that, since you don't do that thing, I am not talking about you. [/QUOTE] This is your point that I kinda get. This mindset I can sort of understand. But it doesn't make sense. You are telling a large group of people to stop doing what only few of them are doing. If you word it like that, it implies you mean everyone from that group. I can understand it makes sense in your head but it does not on paper. Someone who reads it, will see the "gamers" and substitute it in his head with "everyone who plays video games", because that's exactly what it means. You are contributing to the "gamers all are misogynists" trend. You are the one who is supposed to specify the group you are addressing, not the reader. [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893770]B: You can't draw an an analogy between saying that and saying stereotypical stuff about black people because, as I explained (and you said you "kinda get"), that is patently different than saying stereotypical stuff about gamers because there are [i]larger social ramifications[/i] of saying racist stuff about black people.[/QUOTE] Sigh. You are still not getting it. I am not making an analogy of the social situation that black people and gamers are. I am not making an analogy of the ramifications of generalizing black people and gamers. I am only making an analogy of judging very large groups based on actions of few. Replace "black people" with "people who eat pizza" and the point I was making stays the same.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45893822][B]I'm fine with insulting people as long as I can convince myself I don't like them.[/B][/QUOTE] Well that's an awfully weird opinion for you to have. Lord knows I have never said or vaguely implied that I believe anything like that.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893848]Well that's an awfully weird opinion for you to have. Lord knows I have never said or vaguely implied that I believe anything like that.[/QUOTE] Should I bring up the quotes from the News Node thread where you stated after reading 52 pages that every gamer is a baby? Or the fact you're trying to excuse generalizing something because 'well if you don't do it then don't be worried' which in no way is a legitimate argument in any form or noun usage of any slang word. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] For instance, it is completely not okay with those in the BDSM community to be upset about 50 Shades of Grey because it not only misrepresents what that community is like but also shows very abusive behaviors. But by your logic, 'well if you're not being abusive, who cares who is misrepresenting you, it won't affect you'.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893817]Yes. I agree. But I think people should pick their battles, and I think that "gamer" is the absolute worst battle of them all.[/QUOTE] See, I can't agree with that train of thought. [I]Why[/I] do gamers deserve to be generalized and insulted just because there's less social ramifications? [I]Why[/I] is the mentality that "gamers are inferior/unimportant" seemingly enjoying a resurgence amongst these prominent people? There's no cause to be an asshole to someone just because they consider themselves part of a group you don't like or otherwise look down on. Look down on the assholes who are part of the hobby, not the hobby itself. And if people like Anthony Burch, Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, or Phil Fish want to be as prominent as they are, they should hold themselves to a higher standard, rather than directly insulting people and, in some cases, wishing death upon them (Fish, mostly). These people are not above us in the way they seem to think they are.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45893885]See, I can't agree with that train of thought. [I]Why[/I] do gamers deserve to be generalized and insulted just because there's less social ramifications? [I]Why[/I] is the mentality that "gamers are inferior/unimportant" seemingly enjoying a resurgence amongst these prominent people? There's no cause to be an asshole to someone just because they consider themselves part of a group you don't like or otherwise look down on. Look down on the assholes who are part of the hobby, not the hobby itself.[/QUOTE] Because its really easy to insult the group to hit a few of them. People do it with Feminism and feminazi all the time. Or with gay people and flamboyancy, or with African Americans and Gangbangers.

[QUOTE=john_pelphre;45893516]Arent video games art?[/QUOTE] Video games are art like toilets are art. You can make toilet art. You can make toilets into art. You can turn art into toilets. You can take a toilet that wasn't intended to be art and say that it is art. But they aren't inherently art, they're toilets.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45893838]I can understand it makes sense in your head but it does not on paper. Someone who reads it, will see the "gamers" and substitute it in his head with "everyone who plays video games"[/QUOTE] Maybe if I'm talking to a class of four-year-old children? I'm not responsible for how people misinterpret my words. If some idiot blunders into an ongoing conversation about sexism in gaming and only reads my one sentence where I said "we should fire gamers into the sun with a cannon" and walks away genuinely thinking that we should do that then that's not my fault any more than it is Jonathan Swift fault if someone skims A Modest Proposal and comes away thinking that guy was a cannibal. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;45893838]You are contributing to the "gamers all are misogynists" trend. You are the one who is supposed to specify the group you are addressing, not the reader.[/QUOTE] I genuinely believe that there is a problem with misogyny in modern video game culture. If gamers don't want to be stereotyped as misogynists (which won't even happen because, again, everyone plays video games in 2014), then their foremost concern should be with fighting back against misogyny in gaming. They shouldn't be wasting their time policing "anti-gamer language" on twitter. This is patently different from a stereotype against an ethnic minority because "gamer" is an identity of free association.

[QUOTE=Paramud;45893897]Video games are art like toilets are art. You can make toilet art. You can make toilets into art. You can turn art into toilets. You can take a toilet that wasn't intended to be art and say that it is art. But they aren't inherently art, they're toilets.[/QUOTE] I hope that extends to books, movies and televison for ya.

[QUOTE=Turnips5;45893726]I have another question for people in this thread: what do you call someone who plays video games?[/QUOTE] It doesn't need a name because it's not a homogeneous group and lots and lots of people plays video games so for some fucking reason you can't use a single word to describe someone who plays video games, you have to say "people who play video games" the same way you don't call people hunters but "people who hunt".

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45893902]Maybe if I'm talking to a class of four-year-old children? I'm not responsible for how people misinterpret my words. If some idiot blunders into an ongoing conversation about sexism in gaming and only reads my one sentence where I said "we should fire gamers into the sun with a cannon" and walks away genuinely thinking that we should do that then that's not my fault any more than it is Jonathan Swift fault if someone skims A Modest Proposal and comes away thinking that guy was a cannibal. I genuinely believe that there is a problem with misogyny in modern video game culture. If gamers don't want to be stereotyped as misogynists (which won't even happen because, again, everyone plays video games in 2014), then their foremost concern should be with fighting back against misogyny in gaming. They shouldn't be wasting their time policing "anti-gamer language" on twitter.[/QUOTE] And if feminists don't want to be called feminizes maybe their foremost concern should be with stopping radical feminists who are way to extreme. (Note:I don't actually believe this, I'm mocking the rhetoric.)