Borderlands 2 Writer Outs Destructoid As Corrupt In Wake Of #GamerGate - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45894312]By saying that "gamer" isn't just someone who plays video games. You are changing the definition of the word.[/QUOTE] I'm just saying the word is irrelevant now, not trying to change the definition. Though I would argue that to most people a gamer is someone who plays more than casually, and what is language if not a social contract of the majority. Hell, you see if from within all the time. "They're not REAL gamers!"

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45894334]I'm just saying the word is irrelevant now, not trying to change the definition. Though I would argue that to most people a gamer is someone who plays more than casually, and what is language if not a social contract of the majority. Hell, you see if from within all the time. "They're not REAL gamers!"[/QUOTE] And those people should be slapped, a gamer is someone who enjoys games and likes to discuss games. Thats what it should, its been take away without us having any fair chance to stop it.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45894104]Also, you're an asshole.[/QUOTE] This is an appropriate response that does not at all come off as childlike.

[QUOTE=Paramud;45894356]This is an appropriate response that does not at all come off as childlike.[/QUOTE] You're judging what is and is not art. That's not only pompous but a point that's been thrown out several times during debates about videogames.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;45894334]I'm just saying the word is irrelevant now, not trying to change the definition. Though I would argue that to most people a gamer is someone who plays more than casually, and what is language if not a social contract of the majority. Hell, you see if from within all the time. "They're not REAL gamers!"[/QUOTE] Gamer just means "you play video games". You could say that, or use 1 word. I understand your point that like half of the population plays video games now and the group is way too diverse to have any specific meaning but the definition is still the same. If there was a popular 1 word for "someone who likes to watch tv series" people would use it. But it doesn't while "someone who likes to play video games" does. You are over analyzing it. And about the people who are talking about "real gamers". They too, have their own definition of "gamer" and try to change the definition of other people to their own. It's just as stupid.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45894374]You're judging what is and is not art. That's not only pompous but a point that's been thrown out several times during debates about videogames.[/QUOTE] I'm not judging anything. My point is that anything can be art or not art. Art is a personal concept, so what falls under it is personally defined. If you think all video games are art, then all video games are art [b]for you[/b]. If you think all video games are not art, then no video games are art [b]for you[/b]. You can not say that all of Thing is art just because it's Thing. To me, that is insanely pompous.

[QUOTE=Paramud;45894394]I'm not judging anything. My point is that anything can be art or not art. Art is a personal concept, so what falls under it is personally defined. If you think all video games are art, then all video games are art [b]for you[/b]. If you think all video games are not art, then no video games are art [b]for you[/b]. You can not say that all of Thing is art just because it's Thing. To me, that is insanely pompous.[/QUOTE] Why are you treating this like black/white?

[QUOTE=Ownederd;45894439]Why are you treating this like black/white?[/QUOTE] I don't understand what you mean.

isnt anthony burch the guy who got cheated on so hard he turned gay

I'm a huge fan of Borderlands, but reading Anthony's tweets.... my God, he sounds like fucking Phil Fish or some 13 year old twat. It's really disappointing; actually. Anyways, I didn't mind the memes at all in BL2, however, his writing is indeed flawed at times for other reasons. He needs to be a bigger man and accept it, [B]because that's how you become a better writer.[/B] [SP]On another note, I actually like Claptrap. He's so horrible, but I learnt to actually care for the guy because of it. It's hard for me to explain, and I'm pretty much alone on the opinion anyways.[/SP]

[QUOTE=Marceline;45894502]I'm a huge fan of Borderlands, but reading Anthony's tweets.... my God, he sounds like fucking Phil Fish or some 13 year old twat. It's really disappointing; actually. Anyways, I didn't mind the memes at all in BL2, however, his writing is indeed flawed at times for other reasons. He needs to be a bigger man and accept it, [B]because that's how you become a better writer.[/B] [SP]On another note, I actually like Claptrap. He's so horrible, but I learnt to actually care for the guy because of it. It's hard for me to explain, and I'm pretty much alone on the opinion anyways.[/SP][/QUOTE] You're not alone. Buried deep, deep, DEEP under Claptrap's annoying exterior is a character that I actually pity. It just takes a while to get there.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;45892911][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zGAQh1h.png[/IMG] When the person you call a "white basement dweller" turns out to be a black dude in the Army. Literally perfect.[/QUOTE] let me guess autobro is white

[QUOTE=Paramud;45894451]I don't understand what you mean.[/QUOTE] You're stating its either art or not art to you. Nevermind the fact that closing yourself off in that regard only hurts you, you leave only two options when the reality is that you can consider some things of a medium as art and others as not, or different levels of artistic merit.

[QUOTE=Swilly;45894660]You're stating its either art or not art to you. Nevermind the fact that closing yourself off in that regard only hurts you, you leave only two options when the reality is that you can consider some things of a medium as art and others as not, or different levels of artistic merit.[/QUOTE] Adding more levels doesn't really change it. The only difference is that rather than saying "this is art" you're saying "this is at least partly art."

I love how Anthony goes on about "misogyny in the gaming industry", yet Gearbox fucking owns the Duke Nukem IP.

"gamer as an identity is no longer needed, everyone plays games. this means it's ok to make sweeping generalizations about how everyone who plays games is a misogynist." am i understanding this right?

also, am I legitimately hearing at least some kind of debate on whether video games are art seriously?

[QUOTE=J!NX;45895302]also, am I legitimately hearing at least some kind of debate on whether video games are art seriously?[/QUOTE] I'm not even playing with the idea because all the effort that goes into everything in games...

What is it with game devs and cuckolding? Zoe Quinn is currently the queen of cuckolding in games, while Anthony was cucked and throws temper tantrums whenever anyone mentions it.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45892868]Except "feminism" is a century-old school of academic thought whereas "gamer" is a term that's been sold to you by Frito-Lay and Activision Blizzard[/QUOTE] Have you ever made an argument that wasn't a strawman or ad hominem? Seriously, you move goalposts more often than than the wind changes directions.

[QUOTE=Marceline;45894502]I'm a huge fan of Borderlands, but reading Anthony's tweets.... my God, he sounds like fucking Phil Fish or some 13 year old twat. It's really disappointing; actually. Anyways, I didn't mind the memes at all in BL2, however, his writing is indeed flawed at times for other reasons. He needs to be a bigger man and accept it, [B]because that's how you become a better writer.[/B] [SP]On another note, I actually like Claptrap. He's so horrible, but I learnt to actually care for the guy because of it. It's hard for me to explain, and I'm pretty much alone on the opinion anyways.[/SP][/QUOTE] Claptrap is actually one of the better written characters in BL2 IMO, certainly better than Handsome Jack which everyone seems to love despite the mountain of egregious inconsistencies in his character.

[QUOTE=Qwerty Bastard;45896001]Claptrap is actually one of the better written characters in BL2 IMO, certainly better than Handsome Jack which everyone seems to love despite the mountain of egregious inconsistencies in his character.[/QUOTE] What inconsistencies? From the beginning to the end, Handsome Jack is utterly [I]convinced[/I] (read: deluded) that HE's the good guy in this story and you're the aggravatingly persistent villain. He attempts to justify his atrocities in what is, effectively, the greater good from his point of view. He is constantly, unflinchingly antagonistic, homicidal, and sociopathic (evidenced by his lack of sympathy [sp]save for his supposed sympathy for his daughter[/sp]) and his deranged and egotistic sense of humor. The only time we see a crack in his facade is when the player [sp]encounters Angel and she begs for death, which upsets Jack not only because you're killing his daughter, but because for possibly the first time she betrays him because she KNOWS it's going to hurt him.[/sp] Where was he inconsistent in that?

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45896135]What inconsistencies? From the beginning to the end, Handsome Jack is utterly [I]convinced[/I] (read: deluded) that HE's the good guy in this story and you're the aggravatingly persistent villain. He attempts to justify his atrocities in what is, effectively, the greater good from his point of view. He is constantly, unflinchingly antagonistic, homicidal, and sociopathic (evidenced by his lack of sympathy [sp]save for his supposed sympathy for his daughter[/sp]) and his deranged and egotistic sense of humor. The only time we see a crack in his facade is when the player [sp]encounters Angel and she begs for death, which upsets Jack not only because you're killing his daughter, but because for possibly the first time she betrays him because she KNOWS it's going to hurt him.[/sp] Where was he inconsistent in that?[/QUOTE] [sp]Immediately after you kill his daughter you're given two side missions - one where he pays you to kill yourself (not canon by the way because Anthony is a lazy write) and another where he asks you to check on his grandmother to make sure bandits killed her. The entire time he's cracking jokes and acting like nothing just happened.[/sp] Of course the reason behind that could be that those missions were supposed to be [i]before[/i] all the Angel stuff and they just moved them without updating the voice lines. But still.

[QUOTE=ColossalSoft;45896193][sp]Immediately after you kill his daughter you're given two side missions - one where he pays you to kill yourself (not canon by the way because Anthony is a lazy write) and another where he asks you to check on his grandmother to make sure bandits killed her. The entire time he's cracking jokes and acting like nothing just happened.[/sp] Of course the reason behind that could be that those missions were supposed to be [i]before[/i] all the Angel stuff and they just moved them without updating the voice lines. But still.[/QUOTE] Is that inconsistent though? Unless I'm remembering the game wrong, every time you royally pissed Jack off he'd come up with some grandiose threat then go right back to cracking jokes and taunting you.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45896247]Is that inconsistent though? Unless I'm remembering the game wrong, every time you royally pissed Jack off he'd come up with some grandiose threat then go right back to cracking jokes and taunting you.[/QUOTE] After that point he doesn't joke around in the main story. So yeah it's kind of inconsistent.

The game has it's huge flaws in writing and plotholes, but over time the writing seemed to get better, primarily in the D&D DLC. The jokes where mostly spot on and was even able to put in an emotional subplot that didnt feel cringy or forced. That and the fact best character Jack will me a major part of BL 1.5 makes me think the writing will improve in the next game, unless he decides to ruin it all and put in a Doge reference somewhere in the game. That will make or break the humor, much like the Arrow in the Knee joke was the key ruiner of all credit the BL2 and Burch himself could have earned.

Borderlands 2 in general has too much talking. The writing and humor wasn't necessarily bad, but the story is almost entirely composed of nothing but jokes over and over again in rapid succession. The only time I think a joke wasn't used was if a character died which made the tone feel really jarring at times instead of triggering an emotional response. A joke also tends to work only once, which isn't good for a game that's about replay value. I understand that characters and dialogue are great ways to create an antagonist and overall story, but I feel that in this case it tended to interrupt my communication with friends when playing co-op. In contrast, the first game was mostly quiet which I think did an excellent job making Pandora feel desolate. Gearbox needs to learn that it's ok for a character to not be funny most of the time or even just talking in general. And if a character is funny all the time, he/she needs to show up only at a handful of moments - set up and timing are crucial to jokes. While the onslaught of jokes and story being forced down my throat did take me out of the game sometimes, killing weird shit with badass guns more than made up for petty narrative issues.

[QUOTE=Paramud;45894394]I'm not judging anything. My point is that anything can be art or not art. Art is a personal concept, so what falls under it is personally defined. If you think all video games are art, then all video games are art [b]for you[/b]. If you think all video games are not art, then no video games are art [b]for you[/b]. You can not say that all of Thing is art just because it's Thing. To me, that is insanely pompous.[/QUOTE] Someone who's studied the history of art correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure art can be objectively good or bad. Art itself is mainly evaluated subjectively, but has objective aspects to it. Like art, games can be judged objectively and subjectively. Claiming that game as art is entirely subjective can't be possible if art itself contains objective aspects to it. It isn't a unique experience to individuals that is entirely subjective like food. It's also contradictory to claim video games as art is entirely relative. You insinuate that making a dogmatic claim about what is art and isn't in insanely pompous, but isn't claiming that art is entirely relative as an absolute truth the same train of thinking? You're telling people how they should see what is art, which isn't any better from people saying video games are art.

Art can be objectively good, but using 'art' as some sort of standard is fucking moronic. Art is any non-literal human expression. For example, dancing is art.

[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45896135]What inconsistencies? From the beginning to the end, Handsome Jack is utterly [I]convinced[/I] (read: deluded) that HE's the good guy in this story and you're the aggravatingly persistent villain. He attempts to justify his atrocities in what is, effectively, the greater good from his point of view.[/QUOTE] See, I'm willing to accept that premise, but I just don't buy it from the way he's written and presented. He never displays that kind of twisted view of the world aside from essentially just saying "I'm the hero you're the villain!" in plain, stupid English. Other than him saying that here and there, he still acts like a power mad rich asshole who just buys and kills people; from his radio chat things and recorded messages he hasn't done anything that ANYONE could delude themselves into thinking was a heroic act. It's not like he has some kind of crazy ideology, or he's fighting on the wrong side of a war, or that he's doing what he does to help his daughter in any way, he's just your typical villain who likes money and power, he does what he does simply because he wants to, the "hero" angle just doesn't hold up at all. It's some really weak window dressing to disguise a weak, generic character.