• Nearly Half Of U.S. States Are Now Fighting To Discriminate Against Transgender Students
    74 replies, posted
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50696216]Do you even know what segregation means?[/QUOTE] If, by definition, that's segregation, then it's necessary segregation.
The only two things that make sense to me are to either have all bathrooms be gender neutral (which requires a lot of walls knocked down) or to just let people use whatever bathroom they want which requires nothing. I go to a trans support group where we state at the beginning of every meeting that you are free to use whatever bathroom you want. Even though we have plenty of cisgendered people there every meeting, we have yet to ever have anything bad happen. I've also, as a transgirl, used the women's restroom in public before with no incident at all. The entire argument for not allowing transgendered people to use the restroom of their chosen gender comes wholly from fearmongering, and unrealistic, paranoid 'what ifs' coupled with the stupid belief that you can 'spot' any trans person without them telling you. There's no valid reason for not allowing trans people to use the restroom of their choice. Hell, we already do, without incident, all the time. It's literally just a matter of writing down both that we legally can and protecting trans students who are under more scrutiny.
Can't use the ladies' room cause you're not 'woman' enough, Can't use the men's room cause you're not 'man' enough. ...the fuck are trans people supposed to do, wear diapers in public? Is that the perfect solution?
[QUOTE=Blind Weasel;50696246]Can't use the ladies' room cause you're not 'woman' enough, Can't use the men's room cause you're not 'man' enough. ...the fuck are trans people supposed to do, wear diapers in public? Is that the perfect solution?[/QUOTE] No, ideally we're supposed to just not exist because we make things more complicated than people can handle. We're inconvenient.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50696216]Do you even know what segregation means?[/QUOTE] we live in separate houses, thats segregation, lets move in together because otherwise thats racist!!!!
Once again, thanks republicans.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50696129]I should preface this by stating that I am entirely pro-transgender people, because you seem like the kind of person who will freak out and scream bigot at me. [/QUOTE] lol... really? I'm just trying to understand why people don't even seem to think that trans folks go through a huge mental discomfort when using a bathroom that differs from their gender identity. Don't go around making assumptions, please. [QUOTE=Grenadiac;50696129] If you were born male or have transitioned to male, use the male restroom. If you were born female or have transitioned to female, use the female restroom.[/QUOTE] Here's a hypothetical scenario (which could have happend before) in which this would be an awful idea: MtF goes into male bathroom because state law says so said individual is noticed by the wrong person they get beat up for being in the wrong bathroom this individual has a traumatic experience which can potentially lead to depression in more fragile people like her and thus either self harm or suicide, both of which claim a high number of lives in the trans community. If we really wanted to fix things, we could simple have unisex bathrooms with an officer or cameras guarding them to prevent any discrimination, rape or other disgusting shit. It's that simple.
Cameras do not belong in bathrooms
I didn't say they should record you taking a shit, you can have them guarding the entrance to the stalls you can get a look of the inside without worrying about privacy. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] once again, having an actual guard, either outside or inside, would be better.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50696234]If, by definition, that's segregation, then it's necessary segregation.[/QUOTE] How is it necessary?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50695778]NPR interviewed the Nebraskan attorney general yesterday, he stated that he pretty much could not care less about transgenders going into whatever bathroom they please. The reason he and his state are pursuing a lawsuit is because 1) The executive branch is unilaterally changing the definition of the law without legislative approval (whether you like it or not, the word "sex" in the original law was clear defined as biological) 2) The executive branch is enforcing its will by extortion, threatening to withdraw needed funds to education centers unless they do as they say, which sets a pretty bad precedent.[/QUOTE] 1) the law doesn't say biological sex, it was written well before that shit even was an argument 2) that is how the federal government works, states have the right to either follow these federal laws and take federal funds or don't
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50696272]we live in separate houses, thats segregation, lets move in together because otherwise thats racist!!!![/QUOTE] I was talking about gender segregation, nice strawman
[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;50696382]I didn't say they should record you taking a shit, you can have them guarding the entrance to the stalls you can get a look of the inside without worrying about privacy. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] once again, having an actual guard, either outside or inside, would be better.[/QUOTE] a guard for the bathroom you're not really serious, are you?
[QUOTE=Sableye;50696413]1) the law doesn't say biological sex, it was written well before that shit even was an argument 2) that is how the federal government works, states have the right to either follow these federal laws and take federal funds or don't[/QUOTE] Agreed, nebraska is a red state the attorney general and governor are both republican, they just threw the "oh we don't care about the transgenders" excuse to try to not look like they have an alternative motive. It's pretty obvious what it is about, a bunch of old men wanting the country to never change with the times, because it doesn't fit their religious agenda.
[QUOTE=elowin;50696452]a guard for the bathroom you're not really serious, are you?[/QUOTE] do you have any better ideas? aside from "don't change anything and let bad shit still happen" [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] dire times call for dire measures
[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;50696463]do you have any better ideas? aside from "don't change anything and let bad shit still happen" [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] dire times call for dire measures[/QUOTE] If someone is attacked in a bathroom, they get arrested by the police and go to jail. This is how it has always worked for any assault. We arn't going to magically add a security guard to the millions of bathrooms everywhere.
[QUOTE=ZachPL;50696496]If someone is attacked in a bathroom, they get arrested by the police and go to jail. This is how it has always worked for any assault.[/QUOTE] states that allow trans discrimination prove otherwise when it comes to verbal (and sometimes physical) assault
I uh 10 states isn't even close to half of 50? That's still 15 states away from half. That's 2.5 states away from even being a quarter. [editline]a[/editline] On the upside my backwards-ass state isn't on that list. I generally just assume Oklahoma is on the list whenever something like this happens.
Trans people have already been using bathrooms according to gender identity for ages now. People just don't notice. It's not like suddenly allowing them to use what they'd like will create an influx of bathroom arrests. If nothing else, this fearmongering has proven that the creepy ones are people busting out their phones in bathrooms to try and "catch" trans people just minding their own business. You don't go into the bathroom for anything except to use the bathroom. You're not in there to hang out and socialize for any more than like 2 minutes, if at all. If someone wanted to truly commit a crime while you were in there, they would not give a single damn whether or not it was a bathroom that they should be in or not. Stalls exist for a reason. You can't "peep" without being obvious as shit, and normally, businesses or schools with stall bathrooms are not gonna be open in the dead of night with a creeper wandering in and out of bathrooms will ill intent under the guise of a certain identity.
Can't everyone just shut the fuck up about this bathroom shit (no pun intended there)? I mean, stalls exist, get over yourself. And if you're worried about men dressing up as women and going into women's restrooms, what about lesbians? There are way more lesbians than transgender people in the world. And there are certainly more gay guys than FtM trans people. The only gray area here are locker rooms, and even then a lot of locker rooms do have bathroom-style stalls.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;50695725]oh yeah you can totally just change your gender identity on a whim fuck these people they know literally nothing about being trans[/QUOTE] There will be a few shitheads that claim they're the opposite so they can try to creep around. Those are the people who change it on a whim. Of course, they are few and far between, but they do exist, and they are leveragr used to further the discrimination.
Would this include locker rooms?
Most locker rooms have stall bathrooms in any major gym facility. If people are uncomfortable changing out in the open, they can change in a stall. Pretty much what I've done in any locker room facility since high school.
Did any of you read the article? This is about Title IX being used as a bludgeon to enforce things like the kangaroo courts involving rape. The suit is basically, "You didn't get legislative approval, you said this is changed now. Deal with it." The administration COMPLETELY ignored due process with these changes.
[QUOTE=Swilly;50697236]Did any of you read the article? This is about Title IX being used as a bludgeon to enforce things like the kangaroo courts involving rape. The suit is basically, "You didn't get legislative approval, you said this is changed now. Deal with it." The administration COMPLETELY ignored due process with these changes.[/QUOTE] that is how title IX has always been used... its not compulsery for states to follow title IX only that federal funds hinge on following it, just like states weren't compelled to expand medicare dollars under ACA and many didn't and just took the loss in medicare dollars (to the detriment of their citizens) the courts have upheld such reinterpretation under similar circumstance in federal anti-discrimination laws for contractors and employment, so its not totally unprecedented. The courts have [I]also[/I] upheld that LGBT are protected minorities under the civil rights act, even though they have not been appended to the act
I really can't understand the issue. Bathrooms are there to do your bussiness. If someone is up to something malicious, they'll do it anyway. It could also be a woman assaulting another woman or man assaulting another man. I'm ftm. Never had trouble at the bathroom, not when I just started with hormones and not now 2 years later. Nobody notices or cares. If this were implemented here and I had to go to the female bathroom, I imagine it would cause immediate trouble. [QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;50696039]I personally don't see the issue with pre-op transgender people having to legally use bathrooms based off of sex, not gender- whereas post-op should have the right to access the bathrooms their new sex allows them in short; why base bathrooms off of gender and not sex?[/QUOTE] It's silly to base it on sex. Not everyone can go for a full operation, either because of money or health reasons (or personal reasons). For ftm it's often even adviced against doing, since it can bring so many complications with it. I'm not going for the full operation because of the likelyhood of complications. Would that mean I should go to the female bathroom just because I don't have a dick?
Why is this debate still focusing around the fucking bathrooms when there is [I]so much other much more important shit[/I] regarding this that needs to change? Since when is the apex of trans discrimination at the point of the bathroom? Trans people have been using whatever restroom they've wanted to for years and at the end of the day there are vastly more important issues that folks could be focusing on instead. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] Like I feel like this controversy is almost entirely manufactured, none of my trans friends have ever had a problem with public bathrooms once they began reasonably passing (which was literally just the time it took for them to grow out or cut their hair. Obviously not the same as fully passing, but nobody ever questioned it)
Remove bathrooms, have public troths and stalls that are unisex. It will be uncomfortable and awkward for everyone.
Dicks go to the dick room. Vags go to the vag room. Either that, or just make bathrooms unisex, though I don't doubt that a lot of people will be uncomfortable with that.
[QUOTE=Monkah;50698462]Dicks go to the dick room. Vags go to the vag room. Either that, or just make bathrooms unisex, though I don't doubt that a lot of people will be uncomfortable with that.[/QUOTE] The heck is a dick room? The heck is a vag room? "Excuse me citizen, we have recieved complaints that you have been visiting the vag room while allegedly having a dick, as it is our duty to investigate these claims we require you to take off your skirt and underwear."
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