Federal trial begins Monday for Kansas church that protests military funerals - Polidicks

I hope some family member sues them for emotional damages. They have to stop and then everyone is happy. Until something like that happens however their right to free speech should be protected.

who ever think it's alright to protest at a army funeral or any funeral for that matter need to stfu and gtfo, show some god damn respect to the dead

[QUOTE=JDK721;23461591]They're assholes, but they should have the right to protest. Rights are rights. You don't take them away just because you don't like someone.[/QUOTE] So neo-nazis should be allowed to protest in front oh holocaust museums? Its called decency. There should be no law banning their protests, but they damn well better learn some fucking humanity.

[QUOTE=Heartboy;23461574]My cousin was a military soldier and i find what your saying highly disrespectful, come back when you have some respect for those that served.[/QUOTE] what a laughable concept the military should be the first thing out of all criticism. [editline]03:02AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Earthen;23465129]So neo-nazis should be allowed to protest in front oh holocaust museums? Its called decency. There should be no law banning their protests, but they damn well better learn some fucking humanity.[/QUOTE] law is not based on your feelings

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;23462948]Nobody has had to die for our freedom since at least the war of 1812.[/QUOTE] Assuming you're living in the U.S., you could say soldiers were dying for the freedom of black people [I]after[/I] the Emancipation Proclamation was made (before that it was the authority of the States vs. the authority of the Federal Government). WWI kind of had a flimsy argument about our freedom to trade as a neutral country. WWII we were attacked by Japan, so I would say soldiers dying for our freedom there was dead on (as least as a good public reason). As for this whole Westboro protest thing, there is no real way to stop them without putting some new restriction on freedom of assembly. I personally believe there should be more restrictions on it, but that's just me. They've found a way to exploit the Constitution to pretty much harass people and spread a message of hate. They've worded it and limited their actions just enough that it's not illegal. It's a shame, but that's "freedom".

This is one of those horrible parts of the law. Yes, they're arseholes and they deserve a sound beating. However, at the end of the day, it WOULD be breaking the right of free speech. The issue is, this is really an abuse of the 1st Amendment - I hardly think this is what the... writers (idk names)... intended when they made this amendment. You know what would be great? A way to punish those who made such protests with the sole purpose of being malicious and causing emotional harm - which is exactly what's happening here. Unfortunately, this will never actually happen, as there's no way to prove it. Pity. Long live the Patriot Guard Riders.

I hope they win as well, for the sake of speech, but I'm waiting til they get their comeuppance. You go around protest dead soldiers' funerals, you're gonna get shot some day and I'm just waiting til they do.

Better off just letting the Hell's Angels circle around them.

I'm pretty sure harassment and the like are NOT protected as free speech.

I just don't like them cause they're assholes. I'm in the military and I do find it disrespectful that they do this to our soldiers. I mean.. I understand why they should do that. I really do. I just can't stand that they do it. I'm not gonna get in anyone's face about it or be all YOU SHOULD SERVE like the other guy. It's just one of those moments where you hear about it and you just kinda stare thinking "Really? Is this even necessary?" but.. it's like the mosque near ground zero thing. People don't understand they can put it there if they want to.. cause that's how the country works. People flip out over that and I think that's stupid too. I guess protesting during the funeral though shouldn't happen just so the family can get it over with. It shouldn't exist for anyone's funeral. But that's just my opinion. If they continue to let them because of free speech.. I'll accept it. Honestly though I like this idea. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Guard_Riders[/url]

They wouldn't picket a Hell's Angels member's funeral. [editline]02:09PM[/editline] Although the results would be hilarious

As much as I dislike WBC. They, like everybody else, should have freedom of speech and the right to protest.

What everyone is forgetting is that you have the right to not be a pussy and get your feelings hurt by a handful of crazies spouting off nonsense. Suck it up and be a man. Nobody gives a shit about your feelings, and your feelings aren't the law.

Is Kansas an "open-carry" state?

I wouldn't question whether we should have the right to protest, but a funeral, and not just military ones, could very easily be considered a private affair that people are not allowed to protest at. I can't camp out at the bottom of your driveway for weeks with a loudspeaker yelling at you. That's not freedom of assembly, that's harassment. [editline]09:44PM[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;23465130]what a laughable concept the military should be the first thing out of all criticism.[/QUOTE] Individual soldiers funerals != "The Military"

[QUOTE=Morcam;23484421]I wouldn't question whether we should have the right to protest, but a funeral, and not just military ones, could very easily be considered a private affair that people are not allowed to protest ata.[B] I can't camp out at the bottom of your driveway for weeks with a loudspeaker yelling at you. That's not freedom of assembly, that's harssment. [/B] [editline]09:44PM[/editline] Individual soldiers funerals != "The Military"[/QUOTE] Yes, actually, you can. Maybe not yelling directly at me, but protesting in front of my house is something you're allowed to do

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23484544]Yes, actually, you can. Maybe not yelling directly at me, but protesting in front of my house is something you're allowed to do[/QUOTE] You're certainly allowed to protest about just about anything in front of my house. I'm aware of that. I mean specifically talking about me, or something directly related to me. If you want to have a march in front of my house about saving the whales, I can't say I really care, and since you're not targeting me that's fine. Even if I love eating whales, if you're just passing by that's fine. Protesting a new computer keyboard I made in front of my house, though, is not legal, nor is yelling specifically at me through loudspeakers. And before you say anything about marching on the capital buildings, those are public buildings. A soldier's funeral, not so much.

[QUOTE=Morcam;23484831]You're certainly allowed to protest about just about anything in front of my house. I'm aware of that. I mean specifically talking about me, or something directly related to me. If you want to have a march in front of my house about saving the whales, I can't say I really care, and since you're not targeting me that's fine. Even if I love eating whales, if you're just passing by that's fine. [B]Protesting a new computer keyboard I made in front of my house[/B], though, is not legal, nor is yelling specifically at me through loudspeakers. And before you say anything about marching on the capital buildings, those are public buildings. A soldier's funeral, not so much.[/QUOTE] How is that not legal? And like I said earlier, it IS legal to say such things about a dead person, because slander and libel laws don't cover dead people. That's why they only protest dead people or non-people, like The Laramie Project.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23484890]How is that not legal? And like I said earlier, it IS legal to say such things about a dead person, because [B]slander and libel laws don't cover dead people[/B]. That's why they only protest dead people or non-people, like The Laramie Project.[/QUOTE] True, but this (The fact that slander and libel laws exist) points out that it isn't your constitutional right to protest dead people. So an extension of the law that stops slander of the recently dead isn't a violation of the Constitution.

[QUOTE=Morcam;23484992]True, but this points out that it isn't your constitutional right to protest dead people. So an extension of the law that stops slander of the recently dead isn't a violation of the Constitution.[/QUOTE] But the law says nothing about slander of the dead, just protests in general within a range of the cemetery and during a certain time range, which is unconstitutional because like it was said earlier, this completely defeats their ability to protest in the way that they do. It's your constitutional right to protest period, nowhere does it say that there are certain things you can and can't protest.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23485032]But the law says nothing about slander of the dead, just protests in general within a range of the cemetery and during a certain time range, which is unconstitutional because like it was said earlier, this completely defeats their ability to protest in the way that they do. It's your constitutional right to protest period, nowhere does it say that there are certain things you can and can't protest.[/QUOTE] Since you probably missed my edit, slander and libel laws do exist. Is that not a violation of your constitutional right to protest?

No because there are reasonably defined limits on Freedom of Speech that extend to cover freedom of assembly. You can't say something patently false that's potentially harmful to another person's livelihood or reputation, and you can't do the same through protest either. You can say something harmful if it's true, however, or if it's just an expression of your opinion. For example, "God hates fags" is an expression of an opinion and covered under the first amendment. "Richard D. James is a raging homosexual", however, isn't, because it's harmful to a person's reputation, and not provably true.

What they're doing isn't free speech, it's harassment.

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;23485168]What they're doing isn't free speech, it's harassment.[/QUOTE] Nope, because it's not (apparently) intended to disturb or offend the subject, it's just an expression of their opinion. If we had proof they were doing this just to offend people, or just to legal bait, then it would be harassment.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23485212]Nope, because it's not (apparently) intended to disturb or offend the subject, it's just an expression of their opinion. If we had proof they were doing this just to offend people, or just to legal bait, then it would be harassment.[/QUOTE] I think it's obvious to everyone that they're just looking to offend people and maybe try to get some attention. Why not protest at the White House, or their congressmen's offices, or even outside of a recruiting center? Instead they are deciding to protest where there are people obviously grieving which is not needed for them to have freedom of expression. But I'm not a legal expert so I don't know how that would work legally but it seems kinda obvious what their intentions are.

[QUOTE=DamagePoint;23485323]I think it's obvious to everyone that they're just looking to offend people and maybe try to get some attention. Why not protest at the White House, or their congressmen's offices, or even outside of a recruiting center? Instead they are deciding to protest where there are people obviously grieving which is not needed for them to have freedom of expression. [B]But I'm not a legal expert so I don't know how that would work legally but it seems kinda obvious what their intentions are.[/B][/QUOTE] It wouldn't, "beyond a shadow of a doubt" is a legal standard for a reason. You have to have concrete evidence that that's their intention, you can't just present an argument like "it's obvious that's what they're doing"