A New DNA Test Can ID a Suspect's Race, But Police Won't Touch It.
139 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541558]no because that's using witnesses. this is going without a witness, and looking for someone based solely on DNA, you don't have anything about the suspect other than race.
in your analogy you have other details such as dress, height, weight, and other physical factors to help identify your character. in this case, literally the only thing they are looking for is a specific race.[/QUOTE]
"Does he have a beard?"
"No."
"Does he have black hair?"
"Yes."
"Is he black?"
"Yes."
"Keep looking for white people too, guys, we don't want to be racist."
You must be the worst Guess Who player [I]ever[/I].
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541589]it is GOING to cause people to make these implications. it will happen. racists do not make rational justifications, and clearly rational thinkers haven't done much to curb racism thus far, because it's still rampant in modern society[/QUOTE]
They would find some way to be racist [I]anyway.[/I] [I][B]Because they're racists.[/B][/I]
Your logic here is literally "my dad will hear about this from Glenn Beck, and he'll mention it at dinner so he can start talking about black people again, therefore we should abandon this technology and let more criminals get away." Fucking seriously, dude?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;35541563]Do you really think that all races commit crimes in exactly equal numbers?
Claiming that more robberies are perpetrated by a certain race is not racism. It's just a fact that can be used to support racist ideas.
And yet that still cuts out a huge number of people the police don't have to search for anymore unless new evidence comes to light. It's not like they're gonna go pull the first black man off the street and convict him if DNA evidence points to a black offender. They still have to prove it was that person.[/QUOTE]
well if you look at it statistically, white people commit more crimes in america because there are more white people. much more. but that doesn't stop jails being populated by over 50% of african americans, whom make up less than 10% of the entire population.
and claiming more robberies are perpetuated by a certain race is going to be most likely racism, because you are assuming that these statistics were fairly gathered.
and they might not pull the first black man off the street, but they will find the second or third, anyone whom might meet the qualifications for the crime, and then they are treated inhumanely and given a nice plea bargain to confess as to avoid going through the system. the justice system of today is horribly fucked up, and this DNA is going to just make putting anyone in the system easier, not getting the right person.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541526]no actually that's literally prejudice, because you are looking for statistics to reinforce your ideas.
do you really think that black people commit more crimes than white people?[/QUOTE]
Numbers are not ideas looking for support. If the numbers say something, they just do. Numbers have no prejudice or goals. Prejudice would be applying the statistic that a certain group commits more crime to posit that all members of that group are criminals.
[QUOTE=Last or First;35541638]They would find some way to be racist [I]anyway.[/I] [I][B]Because they're racists.[/B][/I][/QUOTE]
Yeah, and by committing to this, you're just adding fuel to the blazing inferno that's become what America's "racial equality" is today.
Huh, I was always told to take race into factor for information every time when taking information.
It's not racists, it's information to lead to a suspect that might have committed the crime, or not.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541644]well if you look at it statistically, white people commit more crimes in america because there are more white people. much more.[/QUOTE]
Statistics like that are generally taken to be per capita, bro, or they don't really mean much.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541644]and claiming more robberies are perpetuated by a certain race is going to be most likely racism, because you are assuming that these statistics were fairly gathered.[/QUOTE]
Herp derp don't trust any information ever because it might be wrong.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541644]and they might not pull the first black man off the street, but they will find the second or third, anyone whom might meet the qualifications for the crime, and then they are treated inhumanely and given a nice plea bargain to confess as to avoid going through the system. the justice system of today is horribly fucked up, and this DNA is going to just make putting anyone in the system easier, not getting the right person.[/QUOTE]
So they wouldn't be trying to do the same thing anyway? The police are going to go, "Oh darn, I'm a racist, but since I don't know the race of the perpetrator I can't indiscriminately throw random darkies in jail?" Get fucking real. All this technology does is give us more accurate information on who committed a crime. If the system is racist, it is going to accuse innocent people regardless of whether we know scientifically the color of the criminal's skin. And what about crime perpetrated by white criminals, letting the DNA evidence exonerate minorities who the system may have held prejudice against?
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541644]well if you look at it statistically, white people commit more crimes in america because there are more white people. much more. but that doesn't stop jails being populated by over 50% of african americans, whom make up less than 10% of the entire population.
and claiming more robberies are perpetuated by a certain race is going to be most likely racism, because you are assuming that these statistics were fairly gathered.
and they might not pull the first black man off the street, but they will find the second or third, anyone whom might meet the qualifications for the crime, and then they are treated inhumanely and given a nice plea bargain to confess as to avoid going through the system. the justice system of today is horribly fucked up, and this DNA is going to just make putting anyone in the system easier, not getting the right person.[/QUOTE]
There's nothing racist about it, the criminal has to leave DNA evidence to be found indicating they were there, possibly at the moment the crime was committed and that makes them a suspect.
It's not profiling, profiling looks for people who [U]might[/U] do something. This looks for someone who possibly [U]did[/U] do something, like any case using forensic evidence.
Race [B]is[/B] in your DNA, it says whether someone has black skin or white skin, blond hair or brown hair and even whether or not they have an extra toe and all of it can be used to identify them from other people.
It could just as easily been black men the police were looking for and have the DNA evidence show it was a white man that they should be looking for.
[QUOTE=Doneeh;35541615]Envision implies I want it, which I don't.[/QUOTE]
No it does fucking not what is it with you people and words? Envision means you see it to yourself a certain way, in this case the technology being horribly abused, and went on to say that if one does not think the technology will be horribly abused, your viewpoint, then one would be an idiot.
Is it possible to log out of Facepunch yet? I'm at a library and this iPod shit is getting tedious.
we aren't all the same, when will people understand this?
idiots
alright i give up, too many people to argue with. just let me conclude by saying that there are going to be big racial implications from this, and if you disagree you should do some research on criminal justice for minorities. i'll give you a hint, things turn out poorly for them in the CJ system.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541589]it is GOING to cause people to make these implications. it will happen. racists do not make rational justifications, and clearly rational thinkers haven't done much to curb racism thus far, because it's still rampant in modern society[/QUOTE]
Haven't done much? Yes they have, it's just spread over a long period of time, yeah, there is racism today but comparing today to just 50 years ago, it's a huge difference.
Racism isn't going to disappear on a single day, it might never disappear, but it is decreasing and will keep on decreasing.
You can try all you want to be politically correct but racists will keep on being racists, they will find any excuse they can to be racist even if we don't give them one, so retarding progress on something that might help society as a whole due to them is stupid.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541777]alright i give up, too many people to argue with. just let me conclude by saying that there are going to be big racial implications from this, and if you disagree you should do some research on criminal justice for minorities. i'll give you a hint, things turn out poorly for them in the CJ system.[/QUOTE]
nobody is saying there's no racial bias in the criminal justice system
[QUOTE=Doneeh;35541690]Yeah, and by committing to this, you're just adding fuel to the blazing inferno that's become what America's "racial equality" is today.[/QUOTE]
This reminds me of that argument that we shouldn't let gay couples adopt because their kid might get bullied for it. The bullies would find some way to bully kids anyway, [I]they're bullies[/I]. Don't punish the gay couples and foster kids because of what bullies might do, [I]punish the bullies[/I].
It's the exact same thing here. Don't let criminals get away and victims suffer more just because racist talking heads might have one more bullet point in their racist Powerpoint. [I]Make the racists shut up[/I], or at least [I]ignore[/I] them or something. People shouldn't suffer because others [I]might[/I] abuse technology to do the same thing they would do otherwise.
So are politicians saying, because we are afraid of what the Crime Reports already show us about racial features, we don't want to catch more murderers?
Some people are just not smart enough to see the big picture.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;35541780]Haven't done much? Yes they have, it's just spread over a long period of time, yeah, there is racism today but comparing today to just 50 years ago, it's a huge difference.
Racism isn't going to disappear on a single day, it might never disappear, but it is decreasing and will keep on decreasing.
You can try all you want to be politically correct but racists will keep on being racists, they will find any excuse they can to be racist even if we don't give them one, so retarding progress on something that might help society as a whole due to them is stupid.[/QUOTE]
well this might be good someday, but for now it's not because of racial inequality. i'm all for science, but with the way minorities are treated in the system currently we should not use this technology. i can only see this setting back progress that we've made for reasons i stated earlier regarding justification of racism. it's just going to add fuel to the fire, which is never a good thing.
[QUOTE=FZE;35541768]No it does fucking not what is it with you people and words? Envision means you see it to yourself a certain way, in this case the technology being horribly abused, and went on to say that if one does not think the technology will be horribly abused, your viewpoint, then one would be an idiot.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by "you people?"
Jokes aside, envision, in terms of American colloquial English, means that you would like what you see, as a person with beliefs, to happen. In Eastern America, envision implies belief followed by the want for action.
For example, I envision a world without racism.
What do I do to follow that and make that vision true? Try to mitigate the problem where I find it.
I apologize if we speak differently, but I stand by what I saw. That being that anyone who doesn't see this going horribly wrong is indeed an idiot.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;35541780]Haven't done much? Yes they have, it's just spread over a long period of time, yeah, there is racism today but comparing today to just 50 years ago, it's a huge difference.
Racism isn't going to disappear on a single day, it might never disappear, but it is decreasing and will keep on decreasing.[/QUOTE]
Problem is, one of the reasons it seems to be decreasing is because now racists are hiding it due to it becoming more and more taboo. It's still there though, hiding underneath the fat of the world and just waiting to slowly eke out at inopportune times.
[QUOTE=Last or First;35541786]It's the exact same thing here. Don't let criminals get away and victims suffer more just because racist talking heads might have one more bullet point in their racist Powerpoint. [I]Make the racists shut up[/I], or at least [I]ignore[/I] them or something. People shouldn't suffer because others [I]might[/I] abuse technology to do the same thing they would do otherwise.[/QUOTE]
How do you ignore someone who has power? Someone who can make decisions and can have hidden motives and beliefs? Everyone has some underlying prejudice and thinking that it doesn't affect decisions is pretty false.
Point is, people will suffer either way, but with this, innocent people have a higher chance of suffering. A serial murder has a good chance of being caught due to an eventual slip-up, but what of all the innocent civilians who could possibly suffer, and most likely will, because of this technology?
It's weighing what you're going to find eventually with people suffering needlessly.
Ehh... we [b]don't[/b] bleed the same blood, that's kind of a fact.
Someone fire this guy, please.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541864]well this might be good someday, but for now it's not because of racial inequality. i'm all for science, but with the way minorities are treated in the system currently we should not use this technology. i can only see this setting back progress that we've made for reasons i stated earlier regarding justification of racism. it's just going to add fuel to the fire, which is never a good thing.[/QUOTE]
It's not going to set back equality because the majority of people will not let that happen regardless of race. If someone wants to commit hate crime in this day and age, they pretty much end up lynched themselves.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;35541864]well this might be good someday, but for now it's not because of racial inequality. i'm all for science, but with the way minorities are treated in the system currently we should not use this technology. i can only see this setting back progress that we've made for reasons i stated earlier regarding justification of racism. it's just going to add fuel to the fire, which is never a good thing.[/QUOTE]
Can you please explain to me how reducing potential suspects using DNA evidence is a bad thing and how this is any different to using witness testimony on their race, hair colour or any other feature?
i guess the issue with this isn't so much within the context of law enforcement, but more of what could happen if this became cheap to do on a large scale (which currently it's very unlikely to be)
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;35541955]It's not going to set back equality because the majority of people will not let that happen regardless of race. If someone wants to commit hate crime in this day and age, they pretty much end up lynched themselves.[/QUOTE]
well if that's really how you see racism today, then there's not much more i can say.
Welp, I'm done with this shitfest of a thread.
Let everyone stick to their own beliefs and not force it on others.
Also:
[QUOTE=FZE;35542070]It doesn't get much more colloquial or American than Kentucky;[/QUOTE]
Jersey colloquial is, from what I'd suspect, much different than Kentucky's. Sorry for us developing language differently than you.
[QUOTE=Doneeh;35541934]
Jokes aside, envision, in terms of American colloquial English, means that you would like what you see, as a person with beliefs, to happen. In Eastern America, envision implies belief followed by the want for action.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn't get much more colloquial or American than Kentucky; if envision implied a desired outcome rather than a simply conceptual outcome then we wouldn't envision undesirable events, and yet that's a good portion of the possible futures we perceive and analyze internally.
When I first read this, I thought, "Oh, okay, so they want to avoid racial profiling". Then my morning coffee hit me, and I pulled a 180 and realized, "but while this would certainly mean looking for a specific race in an investigation, it would also mean if they pinned down that it was a white guy, lazy/racist police officers couldn't pin this on some black dude based on bullshit."
As long as it puts you correctly in the direction of the perp, it sounds damn useful and not at all discriminatory, unless you have someone planting false DNA, and if that's happening you already have bigger problems in your forensics department.
That DNA is black! Beat it's head in!
Let me clear a few things up. The FBI didn't say they didn't want to use it, the prosecutor said that he wanted it eradicated. Perhaps the reason why the FBI was hesitant to use it was the high cost of it and the fact that it's a new method that they aren't used to using.
I think they meant that this could be used to establish a relation between DNA sequences and crime.
In other words preventing the phrase: "TTATCTG in your DNA? Yeah, you're going to grow up into a murderer."
At least that's what I hope they meant...
But what if a guy was black but ended up having having extraordinarily light skin? Or a white guy with very dark skin? To most it would just end up being misleading.
Not entirely sure if that applies for that technology, just throwing it out there.
The only reason they're not using it is because it isn't a proven science I believe. It isn't well-established as a way to get solid evidence. They want something that is been used and will stand up on his own merit in court.
Eventually this stuff will work.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;35542273]But what if a guy was black but ended up having having extraordinarily light skin? Or a white guy with very dark skin? To most it would just end up being misleading.
Not entirely sure if that applies for that technology, just throwing it out there.[/QUOTE]
I can imagine two cops sitting across a table from a suspect.
"Think this is our guy?"
"Eh, I'm not sure. DNA says the guy was Latino, but I'm not seeing it."
"Well I mean he kinda looks Latino, but he also looks kinda Italian..."
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