Britain risks Israeli anger by extending diplomatic recognition to Palestinians - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Melkor;27116296]No, he's still alive. He got lucky. Maybe shot at wasn't the right word, basically what had happened was that the Israeli troops had rounded up all the men in the small village he lived in. They were ordered to stand in a circle with their heads down. One of the soldiers thought it would be fun to start shooting them in the back of their heads, so he did. But then his gun jammed. I don't know how severely he was disciplined, because their commander didn't seem to care when he learned about it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Random94;27077772]Israel: "We respect human rights and the laws of war" Lets see how the pro Israelis talk about this one[/QUOTE]

Well while Anecdotes are always a stupid thing to think counts as evidence, a lot of that story does seem bullshit. Oh well, might as well put in a word. I dunno why they made them stand in a circle, that's a pretty stupid thing to do with people you are detaining. If they were instructing them to stand in a circle, then they are already full retard. I can see one retard with a pistol treating them poorly, that would happen in every military. If he actually shot anyone and the guy in charge didn't care, I'm more inclined to say it's bullshit. If he didn't shoot anyone and his gun jammed beforehand, it may have been unloaded. If so, he's still a retard but not a sociopath. If it wasn't loaded and he legitimately thought shooting them would be a good idea, then someone spun it to the guy in charge and he thought no harm no foul when the guy is deserving of prison. So yeah, it's a shit situation but it's a war, every country does stupid shit like that. [editline]1st January 2011[/editline] Also before you say "Just because everyone does it, doesn't make it ok", the point is that every army has retards like that and the idea that Israel is uniquely cruel is stupid. They can't keep control over every soldier, no-one can. They are human just like everyone else.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27117685]Well while Anecdotes are always a stupid thing to think counts as evidence, a lot of that story does seem bullshit. Oh well, might as well put in a word. I dunno why they made them stand in a circle, that's a pretty stupid thing to do with people you are detaining. If they were instructing them to stand in a circle, then they are already full retard. I can see one retard with a pistol treating them poorly, that would happen in every military. If he actually shot anyone and the guy in charge didn't care, I'm more inclined to say it's bullshit. If he didn't shoot anyone and his gun jammed beforehand, it may have been unloaded. If so, he's still a retard but not a sociopath. If it wasn't loaded and he legitimately thought shooting them would be a good idea, then someone spun it to the guy in charge and he thought no harm no foul when the guy is deserving of prison. So yeah, it's a shit situation but it's a war, every country does stupid shit like that. [editline]1st January 2011[/editline] Also before you say "Just because everyone does it, doesn't make it ok", the point is that every army has retards like that and the idea that Israel is uniquely cruel is stupid. They can't keep control over every soldier, no-one can. They are human just like everyone else.[/QUOTE] You're right, anecdotes don't count as evidence, and I don't know how many details are off considering he was 15 at the time. But I don't need personal anecdotes to condemn Israel. They have a long track record of human rights violations as well as institutionalized racism.

[QUOTE=Melkor;27118620]You're right, anecdotes don't count as evidence, and I don't know how many details are off considering he was 15 at the time. But I don't need personal anecdotes to condemn Israel. They have a long track record of human rights violations as well as institutionalized racism.[/QUOTE] 15? That would've been a while ago, right? I was also responding to Random and mostly trying to give it some context. I don't see it so much as the more human rights violations you do, the more evil you are. Sure you can use the violations to criticise them, but I wouldn't condemn them for it. They at least listen to a lot of them and do something about fixing it so they aren't really malicious or have any vested interest in abuse.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27118746]15? That would've been a while ago, right? I was also responding to Random and mostly trying to give it some context. I don't see it so much as the more human rights violations you do, the more evil you are. Sure you can use the violations to criticise them, but I wouldn't condemn them for it. They at least listen to a lot of them and do something about fixing it so they aren't really malicious or have any vested interest in abuse.[/QUOTE] Policy decisions regarding the Israeli Palestinian conflict by Israel show a consistent lack of regard for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians. This extends beyond military action. For example: The bulldozing of homes as well as discrimination Palestinians face in acquiring residency permits. The fact that Palestinians have such difficulty passing through military check points. (There have been women who have had to give birth on the side of the road because they weren't allowed to pass through the checkpoints to go to the hospital.) Blockage of aid towards Gaza.

[QUOTE=Melkor;27118982]Policy decisions regarding the Israeli Palestinian conflict by Israel show a consistent lack of regard for the safety and wellbeing of Palestinians. This extends beyond military action. For example: The bulldozing homes as well as discrimination Palestinians face in acquiring residency permits. The fact that Palestinians have such difficulty passing through military check points. (There have been women who have had to give birth on the side of the road because they weren't allowed to pass through the checkpoints to go to the hospital.) Blockage of aid towards Gaza.[/QUOTE] I don't agree with the bulldozing of homes or think they should be even distributing the permits themselves if it's in the West Bank. That's also not really a policy decision, just an obvious sign of racism within the organisation. The military checkpoints can be a little excessive but they are the ones policing the area and if they are more concerned about their own safety than the wellbeing of the Palestinians, not much that can be done there. It's also a very bureaucratic system so it's gonna take a long time for everyone and the times when such things do occur in an emergency are sporadic. The blockage of supplies was also done for security and bureaucratic reasons but they seem to have reformed it a bit and while it isn't perfect, they have made some progress. I know someone will come up with the entire list but unless the person making it had schizophrenia, it was just a product of an unregulated system. Still not perfect, but showing progress. The only thing this shows is that the people organising these systems are mostly racist and care more about their own people than them. Not really a human rights violation or not intentionally at least. Needs a lot of fixing but you aren't going to tell them to stop being racist so they will need to take care of themselves in order to fix it.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27119135]I don't agree with the bulldozing of homes or think they should be even distributing the permits themselves if it's in the West Bank. That's also not really a policy decision, just an obvious sign of racism within the organisation. The military checkpoints can be a little excessive but they are the ones policing the area and if they are more concerned about their own safety than the wellbeing of the Palestinians, not much that can be done there. It's also a very bureaucratic system so it's gonna take a long time for everyone and the times when such things do occur in an emergency are sporadic. The blockage of supplies was also done for security and bureaucratic reasons but they seem to have reformed it a bit and while it isn't perfect, they have made some progress. I know someone will come up with the entire list but unless the person making it had schizophrenia, it was just a product of an unregulated system. Still not perfect, but showing progress. The only thing this shows is that the people organising these systems are mostly racist and care more about their own people than them. Not really a human rights violation or not intentionally at least. Needs a lot of fixing but you aren't going to tell them to stop being racist so they will need to take care of themselves in order to fix it.[/QUOTE] "The primary mission of the military government was to maintain internal security in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The Border Police, the Shin Bet, the Israel Police, and the IDF all shared in the task of maintaining order. Immediately upon occupation of the territories in June 1967, Israel launched an intense pacification program. Harsh measures were used to suppress local noncooperation campaigns, strikes, and especially terrorist activities. Local residents whom Israeli officials deemed subversive were deported, Arab homes believed to house anti-Israeli activists and their supporters were destroyed, and dissenters could be placed in administrative detention for up to six months. These and other repressive measures derived from the emergency regulations of the British Mandate period." Sounds like policy to me.

[QUOTE=Melkor;27119231]"The primary mission of the military government was to maintain internal security in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The Border Police, the Shin Bet, the Israel Police, and the IDF all shared in the task of maintaining order. Immediately upon occupation of the territories in June 1967, Israel launched an intense pacification program. Harsh measures were used to suppress local noncooperation campaigns, strikes, and especially terrorist activities. Local residents whom Israeli officials deemed subversive were deported, Arab homes believed to house anti-Israeli activists and their supporters were destroyed, and dissenters could be placed in administrative detention for up to six months. These and other repressive measures derived from the emergency regulations of the British Mandate period." Sounds like policy to me.[/QUOTE] Well the thing is, that is one persons account of what happened, not the official policy. While it is also fairly extreme, it is the kind of thing that would happen in such an occasion. It doesn't really try to subvert all the Palestinians, just the ones who could be a threat. More than anything though, there is little evidence to say that statement is their current attitude towards the situation. That was written many years ago and more related to their attitude when they first annexed the area as opposed to what they are now.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;27119332]Well the thing is, that is one persons account of what happened, not the official policy. While it is also fairly extreme, it is the kind of thing that would happen in such an occasion. It doesn't really try to subvert all the Palestinians, just the ones who could be a threat. More than anything though, there is little evidence to say that statement is their current attitude towards the situation. That was written many years ago and more related to their attitude when they first annexed the area as opposed to what they are now.[/QUOTE] I'm quoting an independent country study prepared by the Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress. It's not a one person account of what happened. And all the shit I mentioned earlier is also policy by the way. Who do you think issues residency permits? Who do you think controls military checkpoints? Who do you think decides to use white phosphorus against civilians?

[QUOTE=Melkor;27119468]I'm quoting an independent country study prepared by the Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress. It's not one persons account of what happened.[/QUOTE] Even still, it is likely outdated and in reality, seems like the kind of measures a country would take at such a time. Suppressing the resistance in a new area in such a way is fairly rough, but it would be standard.

risks Israeli anger? they risked our anger when they used Irish passports for their operatives, although in fairness we never liked them to begin with.

i only like israel because of the desert eagle, other than that, i detest religion entirely. because it leads to dumb shit like this.

This is cool more connections more money

No... i didn't agree to this. Im from the uk and i hate palistine. I love Israel.

[QUOTE=Mr.Thorn;27190209]No... i didn't agree to this. Im from the uk and i hate palistine. I love Israel.[/QUOTE] I'm from the UK and I love Palestine. I don't love Hamas, nor do I love the IDF, but I love Palestine. What has Palestine ever done as a whole country- not just Hamas - that would make you hate it?

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;27194651]What has Palestine ever done as a whole country- not just Hamas - that would make you hate it?[/QUOTE] He misspelled Palestine, what do you expect?

[QUOTE=Moose;27189278]i only like israel because of the desert eagle, other than that, i detest religion entirely. because it leads to dumb shit like this.[/QUOTE] I dont even know what the fuck you just said. Like, really.