Richard Dawkins backs plans for a bible in every school - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112186]Even if you don't believe in it you can still view it and respect it as an allegorical text and source of historical information. And imo, that's what the its writers originally intended it to be[/QUOTE] It is neither. No credible historian will ever cite the Bible. It is not a historical text. And its allegories are false allegories. They hold no inherent meaning, they are simply nonsensical passages that believers interpret as puzzles-to-be-solved for fear of the notion that it was written by a bunch of illiterate, racist fuckers in the desert. Any time someone says "biblical interpretation," that's code for "denial." They can't accept that the Bible can be wrong, so they "interpret" it to fit their little worldview.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112110] I don't respect it. Faith is stupid and I will shout it from the mountaintops, and you can't do a damn thing about it. That is, unless you want to validate my Hitler allusion.[/QUOTE] Nice hypocrisy there mate You're the Hitler character here disrespecting and persecuting other people's views and beliefs

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112153][I]Yes it does[/I], because you said the Catholic Church and Hitler are functionally distinct. You said Hitler wasn't a Christian because he was acting un-Christian. I said the Pope acts exactly the same way. Is the pope un-Christian? [/QUOTE] No, he isn't a Christian because he works against Christianity. He wanted to eradicate it. Would you consider Al Qaeda and the Catholic Church to be the same because they both want to impose their religious views on the world? Also, you can't fucking call anyone a Catholic if they fight against the Catholic Church. Catholicism isn't just some ideology, the term requires that you respect the pope and the church. If you don't do those things you are not a Catholic.

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112220]Nice hypocrisy there mate You're the Hitler character here disrespecting and persecuting other people's views and beliefs[/QUOTE] How the fuck am I persecuting you? By speaking to you frankly? By engaging you like a human being? By questioning your faith? That is [I]NOT[/I] persecution. Persecution is when a teenager is beaten to death in a highschool parking lot for being gay. Persecution is [I]not[/I] telling you that your faith is stupid. [editline]28th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36112230]Would you consider Al Qaeda and the Catholic Church to be the same because they both want to impose their religious views on the world? [/QUOTE] Yes. Functionally similar in every way that matters. And, again, define "Christian." If you are going to stick to the No True Scotsman, you are going to need to thoroughly define what is and is not Christian. Because by your terminology, Martin Luther was not Christian because he sought to undermine the Church. Let me rephrase that: Martin Luther sought to undermine the Church and establish his own sect. Was he not Christian?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112210]It is neither. No credible historian will ever cite the Bible. It is not a historical text. And its allegories are false allegories. They hold no inherent meaning, they are simply nonsensical passages that believers interpret as puzzles-to-be-solved for fear of the notion that it was written by a bunch of illiterate, racist fuckers in the desert. Any time someone says "biblical interpretation," that's code for "denial." They can't accept that the Bible can be wrong, so they "interpret" it to fit their little worldview.[/QUOTE] People like you are the reason there's so much intolerance in the world I really can't be bothered arguing with you any further

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112236] And, again, define "Christian." If you are going to stick to the No True Scotsman, you are going to need to thoroughly define what is and is not Christian. Because by your terminology, Martin Luther was not Christian because he sought to undermine the Church.[/QUOTE] Fine. A Christian is anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the son of god and messiah sent to save the world from sin. Hitler is not a christian because he believed himself to be the messiah, not Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112265]People like you are the reason there's so much intolerance in the world I really can't be bothered arguing with you any further[/QUOTE] Don't you dare think you're going to pimp away, Captain Driveby. Explain yourself. Explain how I am the source of the world's intolerance. Me. Engaging others as human beings, assuming a high-enough intellect to comprehend what I am saying to them without inferring malice toward their character. Explain how I, the kid who was beaten to a pulp more than once in the Bible Belt for denying the sanctity of Jesus Christ, am the fount of the world's hatred. The act of speaking freely is [I]not[/I] an act of malice.

Damnit Lankist I would think someone who works in the legal industry would understand the importance of terminology and accuracy with language.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36112302]Damnit Lankist I would think someone who works in the legal industry would understand the importance of terminology and accuracy with language.[/QUOTE] The terminology doesn't matter because it's all made-up fairy-tale bullshit. I'm talking about the real world. Now answer my question. Is not Martin Luther a Christian? He did the exact same things Hitler did in relation to the Church. He undermined them, started his own sect, became a cult-figure within protestantism and attempted to diminish their grip on Germany. Was he not Christian?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112290] I, the kid who was beaten to a pulp more than once in the Bible Belt for denying the sanctity of Jesus Christ[/QUOTE] Not being disrespectful, but that explains everything

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112265]I really can't be bothered arguing with you any further[/QUOTE] "i have no more arguments left to support my ideas so im just going to call my opponent dense and walk away" Can we just have a religion thread in Mass Debate because every single thread about religion gets derailed into shit.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112290]-snip-[/QUOTE] I'll stand up for him, but meekly, he's saying that you fail to let people "be" if that makes sense, if people want to believe in what they believe, you fail to let them do that and continue attempting to chase after them.

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112323]Not being disrespectful, but that explains everything[/QUOTE] And you call me the intolerant one. The phrase "I do not believe in Jesus Christ" warrants being physically assaulted.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112312]The terminology doesn't matter because it's all made-up fairy-tale bullshit. I'm talking about the real world. Now answer my question. Is not Martin Luther a Christian? He did the exact same things Hitler did in relation to the Church. He undermined them, started his own sect, became a cult-figure within protestantism and attempted to diminish their grip on Germany. Was he not Christian?[/QUOTE] Sure, but that still doesn't make him a fucking Catholic.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36112350]Sure, but that still doesn't make him a fucking Catholic.[/QUOTE] But you haven't been saying "Hitler wasn't a Catholic." You switched gears a long time ago. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36112230][B]No, he isn't a Christian[/B] because he works against Christianity.[/QUOTE] You said Hitler wasn't a [I]Christian.[/I] So if a guy named Martin Luther undermines the Church and starts his own batshit crazy sect in Germany, he's a Christian. But if a guy named Adolf Hitler undermines the Church and starts his own batshit crazy sect in Germany, he's not a Christian.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112366]But you haven't been saying "Hitler wasn't a Catholic." You switched gears a long time ago. You said Hitler wasn't a [I]Christian.[/I][/QUOTE] This shit was all started because you said he was a fucking Catholic damnit.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36112377]This shit was all started because you said he was a fucking Catholic damnit.[/QUOTE] And you said he wasn't [I]Christian.[/I] Stop dodging. Was Martin Luther a Christian? Was Adolf Hitler a Christian?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112347]And you call me the intolerant one. The phrase "I do not believe in Jesus Christ" warrants being physically assaulted.[/QUOTE] You do realise people who believe in the Bible and the Bible itself are two separate things? What I basically meant though is you're like one of those people who become racist because they were once mugged by a black person or something

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112389]And you said he wasn't [I]Christian.[/I] Stop dodging. Was Martin Luther a Christian? Was Adolf Hitler a Christian?[/QUOTE] No I originally said he wasn't a Catholic. Hitler [i]may[/i] be a christian, but he wasn't a Catholic.

[QUOTE=Zambies!;36112327]I'll stand up for him, but meekly, he's saying that you fail to let people "be" if that makes sense, if people want to believe in what they believe, you fail to let them do that and continue attempting to chase after them.[/QUOTE] I'm not chasing after anyone. You entered this discussion out of your own volition. I am not knocking down your door burning your bibles, I am engaging in a public discussion. You do not have the right to walk into any room and demand everyone respect you. That isn't how shit works. You can do whatever you want in your own home, just as I can. But you came here, to this thread, of your own accord, as did I. You can leave of your own accord. I am not compelled to respect your stupid beliefs simply because you are present.

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112400]You do realise people who believe in the Bible and the Bible itself are two separate things? What I basically meant though is you're like one of those people who become racist because they were once mugged by a black person or something[/QUOTE] What's the difference between the bible and the bible itself?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36112431]What's the difference between the bible and the bible itself?[/QUOTE] people who believe in the bible, and the bible itself

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112439]people who believe in the bible, and the bible itself[/QUOTE] So you can believe in the bible, or believe in the bible itself?

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112400]You do realise people who believe in the Bible and the Bible itself are two separate things? What I basically meant though is you're like one of those people who become racist because they were once mugged by a black person or something[/QUOTE] I'm sorry? You seem to be under the impression that I hate someone right now. Please find one instance when I have attacked anyone personally. What I have done is attacked the [I]beliefs[/I]. If your faith is so intertwined with your own character that insulting the faith is akin to insulting you, that's your problem, not mine. I'd recommend you develop a personality. All I have done is attacked a fictional bearded dude in the sky.

Oh my god I'm an idiot.

[QUOTE=RobbL;36112439]people who believe in the bible, and the bible itself[/QUOTE] No True Scotsman.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112425]I'm not chasing after anyone. You entered this discussion out of your own volition. I am not knocking down your door burning your bibles, I am engaging in a public discussion. You do not have the right to walk into any room and demand everyone respect you. That isn't how shit works. You can do whatever you want in your own home, just as I can. But you came here, to this thread, of your own accord, as did I. You can leave of your own accord. I am not compelled to respect your stupid beliefs simply because you are present.[/QUOTE] So you are [i]totally[/i] and I emphasize totally, OK if I disrespect your believes because I find them off-the-wall? I'm not looking to fight you, I'm more curious.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112153][I]Yes it does[/I], because you said the Catholic Church and Hitler are functionally distinct. You said Hitler wasn't a Christian because he was acting un-Christian. I said the Pope acts exactly the same way. Is the pope un-Christian? [editline]28th May 2012[/editline] Hey you never replied to this: Care to? Because if you aren't going to, kindly don't make quips on the sidelines when you're unwilling to engage your opposition.[/QUOTE] Selecting which parts of the book are good or bad has nothing to do with learning from them. The bible inspired me to be conciliatory and nice, like I've been doing now. It taught me that it was not a book of stupid shit and that it taught people what I know is right. While its true that it has taught me many things I already knew, the main moral it taught me was that not everything is black and white.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112454]No True Scotsman.[/QUOTE] I think that this is the functional opposite of the No True Scotsman.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36112425]I'm not chasing after anyone. You entered this discussion out of your own volition. I am not knocking down your door burning your bibles, I am engaging in a public discussion. You do not have the right to walk into any room and demand everyone respect you. That isn't how shit works. You can do whatever you want in your own home, just as I can. But you came here, to this thread, of your own accord, as did I. You can leave of your own accord. I am not compelled to respect your stupid beliefs simply because you are present.[/QUOTE] Why isn't it enough to say you don't believe in Christianity and leave it there?