[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;52976972]I don't think anyone is arguing that controlling the flow of information isn't tyrannical.
But to say that it's [i]government[/i] tyranny is incorrect - it isn't the government that is controlling the flow of information. It is [i]corporate[/i] tyranny, because it is the corporations who now have the ability and motivation to control information.
You [b]can[/b], however, say it is government-[i]facilitated[/i] corporate tyranny, because the government is giving the corporations the ability to control information. You can also say that it is corruption / cronyism, with particular members of the government benefiting from the move.
It's a bit of a semantic argument, but it's an important one. It isn't government tyranny - but it's only one step removed.[/QUOTE]
And to add onto this, if there comes a time where an argument is successfully made that the United States has become an kleptocracy (a form of government where the leaders exploit the populace to further their own wealth), particularly a corporate kleptocracy, [b]and[/b] if these rulings are still in place, [b]then[/b] you could argue that this is government tyranny - because, by that point, "government" and "corporate" are synonymous, and so "corporate tyranny" becomes "government tyranny."
Not until those pieces are in place could you safely make such a claim, though.
[QUOTE=archangel125;52976998]But it isn't, though. 3/4 Republicans are against the NN repeal.[/QUOTE]
on paper republicans are against a lot of republican party policies
doesn't stop them from voting for them though
[QUOTE=Mezzokoko;52976987]Yo, can we tone it down with the deathwishes?? Keep it civil, folks. Despite how frustrating shit is right now.[/QUOTE]
No, Ajit Pai has [I]literally[/I] ended my life because using internet might cost more money now, he should pay for my life with his!!
[QUOTE=dustyjo;52976997]This is exactly why I gave up years ago. Do you seriously think they give a shit about what we say? They only speak the language of money. The millions of comments, the website blackouts, the constant battle people have fought, all for nothing. None of it did anything.[/QUOTE]
Stop acting like it's over. This is the reason why they [I]do[/I] get away with it.
Corporate tyranny is functionally identical to government tyranny when it gets bad enough anyways. The difference just lies in who has the power. And if they're thoroughly in bed with one another, then corporations [I]are[/I] the government, even if they pretend otherwise.
Honestly I think it's fundamentally unpatriotic to be against net neutrality anyways. You're essentially selling out the United States' position as a technological innovator for the benefit of a few companies. If this is allowed to go on it will continue the United States' decline from its position as a leader in the tech world. Already countries like South Korea have significantly better internet than us, and I mean that by an incredibly long shot.
Let me put it this way: Being against net neutrality is fundamentally unpatriotic, and supports mediocrity on the part of the institutions that are meant to connect us to the world through the internet. Pai has voted not only to fuck the average American, but thousands of startups and pre-existing companies, and to [I]retard[/I] our ability to keep up with the rest of the world.
Fuck him and anyone who supports him.
[QUOTE=Ridge;52976854]It's not tyranny. I'm sorry none of you understand what that means, but the government staying out of something is not a basis for saying they are stepping on your rights. Rights are something the government cannot take away. You have contracts with the businesses, and if you don't like it, then you can choose to not renew it.[/QUOTE]
The idea that governments and markets are two separate entities is outdated and needs to die. Both are run by groups of people who agree to meet together voluntarily and both have huge amounts of sway over the lives of daily citizens and citizens don't have a choice in many cases. The only difference is that the government is accountable to the people and corporations are not.
Why do you think that ANY entity, corporation or not, should be allowed to engage in this kind of behavior? Suppose that the government decided to create slow lanes, would you be okay with that? Do you not see that there's a point where the idea of completely unregulated markets breaks down? Why are you so insistent on a worldview that objectively harms everyone? What stake do you have in this?
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;52976774]The US doesn't know how to protest correctly, effectively. Protesting 1 day and the next going back to work isn't going to solve shit.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, if only we had the luxury of enough money in our bank accounts to survive without working for a couple of weeks...or worker protections in place to prevent our employers from just firing everyone who protested...
[QUOTE=dustyjo;52976997]This is exactly why I gave up years ago. Do you seriously think they give a shit about what we say? They only speak the language of money. The millions of comments, the website blackouts, the constant battle people have fought, all for nothing. None of it did anything.[/QUOTE]
Defeatism is never acceptable my dude. Better to have fought and lost than not at all.
[QUOTE=Untouch;52976993]all the stormweenies celebrating this dont realize their sites will be the first to go[/QUOTE]
What do you mean?
Can't wait for the 19.99 a month steam bundle on top of the 200$+ I already pay Comcast.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52977015]What do you mean?[/QUOTE]
Already cloudflare dropped service to Stormfront after that one woman was run over during that white supremacist rally and the daily stormer wrote a disparaging article about her.
Dropping net neutrality would make it significantly easier to bully fringe political websites, right wing included, off of the internet. Wouldn't be surprised if interest groups started using political backlash to get ISPs or hosting services to drop support now, it's getting significantly more legal than it used to be.
So when is Verizon going to rehire Pai as one of their highest paid employees?
Washington (state, since somehow that still gets mixed up) AG is suing now, too: [url]http://www.king5.com/article/tech/washington-to-sue-after-fcc-votes-to-repeal-net-neutrality/281-499471526[/url]
Governor Jay Inslee will also be attempting to maintain net neutrality at the state level, with the following measures (taken from a reddit comment):
[quote]
- Direct the state’s Utilities and Transportation Commission (UTC) to establish a process for ISPs to certify that they will not engage in practices inconsistent with net neutrality principles.
- Limit state-conferred benefits to ISPs that have made such certifications.
- Limit applicability of UTC pole attachment rules to ISPs that are net neutral.
- Review other state-conferred benefits such as easements and taxes.
- Use the state government’s role as a big customer, and our ability to establish state master contracts used by local governments, to incentivize Washington companies to adhere to net neutrality principles.
- Pursue regulatory and legislative action to award contracts to vendors that meet net neutral business requirements.
- Lead the exploration of a multi-state purchasing cooperative to procure internet service from providers that adhere to net neutrality principles.
- Create a state-wide internet speed test. This will allow Washingtonians to test their own broadband speed at home, and submit the test to help appropriate state agencies determine what internet speeds consumers are receiving and where companies may be blocking or throttling.
- Collaborate with legislators to strengthen our consumer protection laws to include the principles of net neutrality.
- Pursue legislation authorizing public utility districts and rural and urban port districts to provide retail ISP and telecommunications services.
- Prohibit government-owned ISP services, such as municipal broadband networks, from engaging in blocking, throttling, or priority pricing for Internet services.
[/quote]
Hopefully we have the tech industry pull here to make it happen. Our mayoral candidates in Seattle were split: one was for a municipal broadband network in Seattle, one was against. Guess who won, and guess who took some money from Xfinity? :V
Its amazing how people are so mad over this they cannot properly understand that others pointing out its not tyranny just means that - its not a tyranny.
Ashit Pie can fuck himself tho.
None points out how this potentially may cause a mass migration of many small-mid tech companies to somewhere else since now internet will be horribly slowed down.
[QUOTE=froztshock;52977029]Already cloudflare dropped service to Stormfront after that one woman was run over during that white supremacist rally and the daily stormer wrote a disparaging article about her.
Dropping net neutrality would make it significantly easier to bully fringe political websites, right wing included, off of the internet. Wouldn't be surprised if interest groups started using political backlash to get ISPs or hosting services to drop support now, it's getting significantly more legal than it used to be.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't make sense. These sorts of occurrences (repealing net neutrality, new tax bill being rushed through), only serve the extremely wealthy 1% who control businesses like ISPs. And these things are only possible when an uneducated voting populace allows republicans to have total control over the government, like is happening now.
If I was an ISP and wanted to keep this new status quo to make myself money, the last thing I would want to do is block websites like Stronfront that exist solely to peddle propaganda that directly benefit my bottom line. Instead I would attempt to block reputable news sources like The New York Times and The Washington Post, which illustrate the truth which is anathema to my bottom line.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52977038]Its amazing how people are so mad over this they cannot properly understand that others pointing out its not tyranny just means that - its not a tyranny.
Ashit Pie can fuck himself tho.[/QUOTE]
I mean it's basically the economic equivalent of watching someone join the police force so that they can take money to let their friends and acquaintances go around stabbing people with impunity. Whether or not it's government tyranny, it [I]is[/I] a failure in the government, as honestly I'd expect the government not to be staffed by people who are intent on fucking me and the vast majority of other people over for the gain of their business partners.
Would this also affect online gaming? would I have to buy a steam bundle or something to be able to play online with people?
Oh my fucking [i]God.[/i]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r50Z2tZrvwY[/media]
Straight from the proverbial horses mouth.
[QUOTE=Pen Straw;52977069]Would this also affect online gaming? would I have to buy a steam bundle or something to be able to play online with people?[/QUOTE]
It might not happen immediately but this makes such a thing possible and legal, yes. But you'd be buying it from your ISP and not from Steam. They'd be able to block any gaming-related traffic you send or receive until you pay the dues they request.
[QUOTE=froztshock;52977057]I mean it's basically the economic equivalent of watching someone join the police force so that they can take money to let their friends and acquaintances go around stabbing people with impunity. Whether or not it's government tyranny, it [I]is[/I] a failure in the government, as honestly I'd expect the government not to be staffed by people who are intent on fucking me and the vast majority of other people over for the gain of their business partners.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, there is no denial that US higher ups are fucked up and have fucked up hard in protecting their citizens from corporate greed. A shame.
On a side note, not racist or anything, but why a lot of CEOs/important people are Hindus? Adobe CEO, Shit Pie etc?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52977053]Doesn't make sense. These sorts of occurrences (repealing net neutrality, new tax bill being rushed through), only serve the extremely wealthy 1% who control businesses like ISPs. And these things are only possible when an uneducated voting populace allows republicans to have total control over the government, like is happening now.
If I was an ISP and wanted to keep this new status quo to make myself money, the last thing I would want to do is block websites like Stronfront that exist solely to peddle propaganda that directly benefit my bottom line. Instead I would attempt to block reputable news sources like The New York Times and The Washington Post, which illustrate the truth which is anathema to my bottom line.[/QUOTE]
It makes great sense because now ISPs are a brand and are seen as supporting far right websites, and thus are now just a privy as Twitter and others to backlash.
[QUOTE=Pen Straw;52977069]Would this also affect online gaming? would I have to buy a steam bundle or something to be able to play online with people?[/QUOTE]
Potentially, yes, depending on who your ISP is. Like, not every ISP is going to manically cackle and rub their hands together around a witch's cauldron just because they can, but it [I]does[/I] mean they have the ability to discriminate that kind of traffic [I]if they want to[/I], yes.
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52977074]It makes great sense because now ISPs are a brand and are seen as supporting far right websites, and thus are now just a privy as Twitter and others to backlash.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and why should they care?
"Comcast is supporting Nazis!"
"Okay, if you don't like it you can switch from us to somebody else. What's that, we're the only ISP in town? We rigged the government to make that possible and to censor dissent by blocking websites under the guise of 'internet freedom'? Looks like you're stuck with us, good luck with having no internet and not being able to get a job!"
[editline]14th December 2017[/editline]
With the power ISPs have gained today, they simply don't [I]need[/I] to care about things like that anymore. They can do anything they want unchecked.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52977084]Yeah, and why should they care?
"Comcast is supporting Nazis!"
"Okay, if you don't like it you can switch from us to somebody else. What's that, we're the only ISP in town? We rigged the government to make that possible and to censor dissent by blocking websites under the guise of 'internet freedom'? Looks like you're stuck with us, good luck with having no internet and not being able to get a job!"[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think you've flipped my opinion on the matter. This is why ISPs need federal regulation, and also need to get kicked out of all their shady local and state government deals. It's difficult or impossible for the market to properly regulate them at the moment.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52977084]Yeah, and why should they care?
"Comcast is supporting Nazis!"
"Okay, if you don't like it you can switch from us to somebody else. What's that, we're the only ISP in town? We rigged the government to make that possible and to censor dissent by blocking websites under the guise of 'internet freedom'? Looks like you're stuck with us, good luck with having no internet and not being able to get a job!"
[editline]14th December 2017[/editline]
With the power ISPs have gained today, they simply don't [I]need[/I] to care about things like that anymore. They can do anything they want unchecked.[/QUOTE]
...You just basically answered how'd they get slammed in the same way Youtube is getting slammed.
Before they could just hide behind the government, "We're Title 2, we don't have the power to censor."
Now they have the power and they're going to get slapped in the face.
[QUOTE=enricociccio;52977050]None points out how this potentially may cause a mass migration of many small-mid tech companies to somewhere else since now internet will be horribly slowed down.[/QUOTE]
Doubtful, the US tax rate and protection basically makes the US the best place to do business on the planet.
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52977100]...You just basically answered how'd they get slammed in the same way Youtube is getting slammed.
Before they could just hide behind the government, "We're Title 2, we don't have the power to censor."
Now they have the power and they're going to get slapped in the face.[/QUOTE]
How are they going to get slapped in the face if there's no effective force to slap them in the face? Dropping your ISP isn't like choosing not to buy a certain brand of paper towel oftentimes your options are limited or nonexistent.
Fuck Ajit Pai to hell and back.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
