JewWario (known from TGWTG) has commited suicide - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43670790]If their "free will" involves murdering themselves then under no circumstances should they have it. People who are properly treated "could" become worse but they also "could" become better. I can promise you that professional care and treatment will have a higher chance of recovery from depression than a bullet to the head.[/QUOTE] I agree that people who are a danger to themselves should be helped. I fervently disagree with the way we carry it out however. Honestly the best way to help depression is to limit the variables in society that end up causing depression (Bullying, discrimination, etc)

[QUOTE=Kazumi;43670470]This whole goddamn thread is a perfect example on why there is such taboo regarding mental health issues in big parts of society. Depression is one of the biggest health issues of our time. People dismiss depression as being just sad, just from the fact that it is a sickness of the mind instead of a physical ailment. They preach their miraculous cures such as "cheer up" and "stop being sad". The mind of a depressed person is a very difficult thing. No matter how you tell them that they are valuable and loved, and bringing examples of good things they've done or great happenings to come, [B]they just can't see it[/B]. Their pain takes the form of intrusive thoughts on their lack of self worth, how much of a burden they are, every failure they have ever done, and how they don't deserve every good thing they get. They can't escape the pain the same way neither you or I can escape the physical pain from a hammer blow to the knee, except with the heavy use of drugs in both cases, but is that what we want? I'm just speculating here, but when he shot himself, in his (irrational) mind he did it for the sake of others. He actually did [I]the least selfish act[/I] one could make, however twisted that may sound. But hear me out. From his point of view, everyone else would be better off without him. From his point of view, by killing himself he wouldn't be a burden on anyone else ever again. From his point of view, he couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel, or the sorrow everyone around him would suffer. When depression takes it's darkest hold reason is nowhere to be found, and there is only one way out. But again, I'm only speculating.[/QUOTE] THIS. Imagine if society treated physical diseases with this sort of mentality of "Oh it's not that bad" or "You're being selfish!"or "You're lying to get out of being responsible for you actions.".

[QUOTE=Kyle902;43670831]I agree that people who are a danger to themselves should be helped. I fervently disagree with the way we carry it out however. Honestly the best way to help depression is to limit the variables in society that end up causing depression (Bullying, discrimination, etc)[/QUOTE] I agree but treating the causes of depression is a discussion for another day. For the time being, we're discussing the symptoms.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43670645]I've called the cops on people who straight up told me they were going to kill themselves before. My rule of thumb is "if they tell you a plan, like 'I'm going to take a rope and I'm going to hang myself,' I stop fucking around and let the professionals deal with it." I'll do anything to stop a suicidal person, as long as that person is no longer an immediate danger to themselves or others, even if it means padded cell time (as if it would ever come to that.) I've lost too many people to suicide to do anything else.[/QUOTE] And that is the right way to go. But after the police intervention there are better solutions than the padded cells. How do you think the depressed person prefer to be treated? Dropped in a "time-out" cell that is as degrading as can be, or get them into voluntary therapy, like seeing a psychologist? As I've said before. This is no time for short-term solutions. Big parts of society need to understand what depression actually means, and how to actually help those in need. Information is key to understanding.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43670819]So we should lie to them? I think they deserve a bit better than that. Understanding that you have a problem is the very first step to recovery.[/QUOTE] Think about a police negotiator negotiating with a group of people that are holding some people hostage. Does the negotiator try and further upset the criminals involved?

[QUOTE=Kyle902;43670856]Think about a police negotiator negotiating with a group of people that are holding some people hostage. Does the negotiator try and further upset the criminals involved?[/QUOTE] Police negotiators also lie and give half-truths in order to trap a criminal into making a mistake, at the criminal's own expense.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;43670853]And that is the right way to go. But after the police intervention there are better solutions than the padded cells. How do you think the depressed person prefer to be treated? Dropped in a "time-out" cell that is as degrading as can be, or get them into voluntary therapy, like seeing a psychologist? As I've said before. This is no time for short-term solutions. Big parts of society need to understand what depression actually means, and how to actually help those in need. Information is key to understanding.[/QUOTE] Again speaking from experience, psychiatric wards are not padded cells unless you are literally insane. Most wards only have on padded room with a bunch of cameras for people who are at extremely high risk, and even then they just give them a tranquilizer and let them sleep it off (funnily enough the tranq is colloquially known as Booty Juice). Psychiatric hospitals usually involve extensive group and individual therapy rather then locking people in padded cells.

Yeah, I don't know where we're getting this padded cell analogy from. It's completely beside the point, we're on the same team.

There's a lot of people in here who lack an understanding of depression talking at length about it. Unfortunately, the only way for these people to actually understand it is to experience it and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, even people who could really use it to stop the badposts.

These threads always disgust me as someone who has both lost a friend to suicide and someone whose spent years dealing with chronic depression. The human mind and the actions it takes in situations like these can never be succinctly summarized by any number of words, let alone a single word as ugly and inaccurate as selfishness or cowardice. I really hope a certain few posters here eventually realize how immature, ignorant and senslessly disrespectful to the dead your views on suicide are.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43670901]Yeah, I don't know where we're getting this padded cell analogy from. It's completely beside the point, we're on the same team.[/QUOTE] My police negotiator analogy was kinda bad. I was trying to say the best way to stop a suicidal person is to deescalate and redirect their attention.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;43670630]Depression isn't always linked to a direct cause. It could be a disturbance to his brain chemistry, like the monoamine oxidase ensyme being on full blast, lowering levels of epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine, etc.[/QUOTE] Well, I know that; I already deal with that myself. But apparently this was a sudden onset and was really severe. Doesn't sound chemical; it sounds like something happened.

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;43670935]Well, I know that; I already deal with that myself. But apparently this was a sudden onset and was really severe.[/QUOTE] Then it could still be a chemical imbalance.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;43670929]My police negotiator analogy was kinda bad. I was trying to say the best way to stop a suicidal person is to deescalate and redirect their attention.[/QUOTE] I'm not gonna pretend to know the best way to stop a suicidal person completely is. All I know is how to get them out of immediate danger and let the professionals handle it, because if I try to talk them down or whatever I'm only going to make it worse because there is no reasoning with somebody in that state of mind.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43670790]If their "free will" involves murdering themselves then under no circumstances should they have it. People who are properly treated "could" become worse but they also "could" become better. I can promise you that professional care and treatment will have a higher chance of recovery from depression than a bullet to the head.[/QUOTE] Listen, I am in no way saying that suicide is a good option. I'm trying to take the depressed person's will into account, not the will to kill him/herself, but their basic human rights. From what I gather, your proposed treatment is in the line of the 5150 linked to previously. This is not a good way to tackle the problem. Again, as I've said many times before: 1. Public understanding from the community. Remove the taboo that exist when we talk about our mental health. 2. Help and support from friends and family. To have a person they can trust and talk to is [I]incredibly[/I] important. 3. Professional help. Psychologists, voluntary psychiatric care, pills. Whatever. As long as the individual consent to it. [editline]26th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;43670803]This is me speaking from experience too. If they consider you a 51 50 they'll handcuff you and throw you in the back of a police car or they'll put on in restraints on a stretcher and put you in an ambulance. I got the police car treatment in front of the entire school. You can guess what that did to me mentally and socially.[/QUOTE] I'm so sorry to hear that. How do you feel now?

A problem with professional health is that if a law for involuntary holds exists then they are legally obligated to tell the authorities if the person admits to being suicidal. This means that patients often lie to their doctor to prevent being put on a hold.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;43670971]Listen, I am in no way saying that suicide is a good option. I'm trying to take the depressed person's will into account, not the will to kill him/herself, but their basic human rights. From what I gather, your proposed treatment is in the line of the 5150 linked to previously. This is not a good way to tackle the problem. Again, as I've said many times before: 1. Public understanding from the community. Remove the taboo that exist when we talk about our mental health. 2. Help and support from friends and family. To have a person they can trust and talk to is [I]incredibly[/I] important. 3. Professional help. Psychologists, voluntary psychiatric care, pills. Whatever. As long as the individual consent to it.[/QUOTE] I agree completely. But when it comes down to the wire, and that person is standing on the edge and ready to jump off, it's time to call the police. I'm explicitly talking about a suicidal person being in [I]immediate and severe danger[/I], after all "prehab" measures have failed.

[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;43670935]Well, I know that; I already deal with that myself. But apparently this was a sudden onset and was really severe. Doesn't sound chemical; it sounds like something happened.[/QUOTE] Could very well be. We will probably never know.

[QUOTE=Kazumi;43670971] I'm so sorry to hear that. How do you feel now?[/QUOTE] I personally am doing fine. My doctor actually just halfed my Effexor dosage so I'll be off Anti-depressants soon. Sadly a 51 50 marks you for a very long time and because of it the state classifies me as ED (Emotionally Disturbed) and I am therefore forced into attending a behavioral school for moderate to severe ED students that has shit for funding and little educational resources.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43670907]There's a lot of people in here who lack an understanding of depression talking at length about it. Unfortunately, the only way for these people to actually understand it is to experience it and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, even people who could really use it to stop the badposts.[/QUOTE] I'll give you five bucks if you name drop.

-snipe-

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43671060]I'll give you five bucks if you name drop.[/QUOTE] I already did, Aman I don't think you really understand it either but at least you're not being belligerent

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43671080]I already did, Aman I don't think you really understand it either but at least you're not being belligerent[/QUOTE] Hey zeke didn't you message me a while ago asking about depression or something?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43671080]I already did, Aman I don't think you really understand it either but at least you're not being belligerent[/QUOTE] PM me your paypal. But also I've accepted long ago that nobody will truly understand unless they experience it for themselves, and even then nobody really understands yet. I'm just calling it as I've seen it in my life. I apologize if I'm being crass, I sincerely do mean well for people with depression. We're all on the same team here.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;43671016]A problem with professional health is that if a law for involuntary holds exists then they are legally obligated to tell the authorities if the person admits to being suicidal. This means that patients often lie to their doctor to prevent being put on a hold.[/QUOTE] This is so counter-intuitive it makes my blood boil. [QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43671017]I agree completely. But when it comes down to the wire, and that person is standing on the edge and ready to jump off, it's time to call the police. I'm explicitly talking about a suicidal person being in [I]immediate and severe danger[/I], after all "prehab" measures have failed.[/QUOTE] Then there is no discussion as we both seem to agree in principle. Someone needs to intervene and to save a person that is mere minutes/seconds away from death. However, the way this is done is unbelievably important. Overall we need a lot more empathic understanding.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43671104]PM me your paypal. But also I've accepted long ago that nobody will truly understand unless they experience it for themselves, and even then nobody really understands yet. I'm just calling it as I've seen it in my life. I apologize if I'm being crass, I sincerely do mean well for people with depression. We're all on the same team here.[/QUOTE] I've had people ask me what being depressed is like. I honestly don't know of any way to possibly describe it adequately.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;43671155]I've had people ask me what being depressed is like. I honestly don't know of any way to possibly describe it adequately.[/QUOTE] People always talk about Hyperbole and a Half's 2 part series on depression, supposing it to be one of the best ways depression has ever been described. [url]http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html[/url] [url]http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html[/url]

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43671104]PM me your paypal. But also I've accepted long ago that nobody will truly understand unless they experience it for themselves, and even then nobody really understands yet. I'm just calling it as I've seen it in my life. I apologize if I'm being crass, I sincerely do mean well for people with depression. We're all on the same team here.[/QUOTE] Indeed. I'm sorry for what you've been through and I can definitely understand that it is a bit of a sensitive topic. I also apologize if I ever appeared harsh in my replies. Once a year I struggle with pretty moderate to severe depression myself, and I've felt myself slip down the slope over the past few weeks. Just being defensive I guess.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;43671176]People always talk about Hyperbole and a Half's 2 part series on depression, supposing it to be one of the best ways depression has ever been described. [url]http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html[/url] [url]http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html[/url][/QUOTE] that is horrifyingly accurate

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43671080]I already did, Aman I don't think you really understand it either but at least you're not being belligerent[/QUOTE] While we are namedropping I'll also say SGTNAPALM I wasn't referencing you with my post either. I don't completely agree with your angle but you atleast seem to show compassion about the subject.