Religious teen shoots and murders another teen for being an atheist
248 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Jookia;25358545]Why not? Animals have morals, if you'd call it that. They tend to act by a set of rules.[/QUOTE]
Do animals often read scientific journals?
[QUOTE=Jookia;25358545]It's not like I chose an example that most people could recognize. How about I go ahead and say how many children wouldn't be scarred from being molested by priests of the Catholic church?[/QUOTE]
I have to say alot of this stuff is true and many of these religions have been causing alot of dis-order in the world but please, it's not christianity and the belief in god itself that has had these children raped by priests. I don't think that the bible approves to molesting children in any way, and these priests who do this are just fucked up and I'd bet my life they don't actually believe in god.
[QUOTE=Jookia;25358522]I said it shouldn't exist. Tenses are important. Religion was a good hypothesis, but it's obsolete.[/QUOTE]
lol "religion is obsolete" you're hardcore man
i'm sure you've garnered so much knowledge in your short little life you've convinced me gg
[QUOTE=Mabus;25358580]They don't, they have instinct. We have that too, although it takes a back seat in human society today.[/QUOTE]
Then explain why whales have cultures and adopt orphaned children that aren't their own while other species don't?
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;25358588]I have to say alot of this stuff is true and many of these religions have been causing alot of dis-order in the world but please, it's not christianity and the belief in god itself that has had these children raped by priests. I don't think that the bible approves to molesting children in any way, and these priests who do this are just fucked up and I'd bet my life they don't actually believe in god.[/QUOTE]
This is a complex argument, but I'd like to believe that it's their sense of a moral compass, based on how Christianity works, that they'd do this. They have to just ask the lord to confess their sins and since they're priests, they probably get some kind of discount.
[QUOTE=Symmetry;25354427]Pretty typical of facepunch to start blaming religion for this.
Some of you are just as bad as the parents who demonize video games for reputedly causing the same thing.[/QUOTE]
In not one post above you was religion specifically highlighted to be the cause. This is just plain stupidity. It would be identically bad if it was the other way around.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;25358463]It's funny how they portray the atheist as this cool perfect kid and they portray the kid who shot him as some evil demonic shithead.[/QUOTE]
Well, he did shoot someone.
[QUOTE=Jookia;25358545]
Why not? Animals have morals, if you'd call it that. They tend to act by a set of rules.[/QUOTE]
Where do these morals take themselves from? Where do they begin? They cannot possibly infinately regress, they must have a starting point.
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;25358648]Where do these morals take themselves from? Where do they begin? They cannot possibly infinately regress, they must have a starting point.[/QUOTE]
Yes, through survival instinct from evolution. From this, morals have evolved.
There's no supernatural mythical creatures telling whales to whales to haul tombstones down hills, they missed out on whatever morals the almighty creator gave to humans, yet they're doing fine and almost identical to our principles.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;25358588]I have to say alot of this stuff is true and many of these religions have been causing alot of dis-order in the world but please, it's not christianity and the belief in god itself that has had these children raped by priests. I don't think that the bible approves to molesting children in any way, and these priests who do this are just fucked up and I'd bet my life they don't actually believe in god.[/QUOTE]
True, but those children and their parents never would have put them at risk by placing such trust in the priests, but since they are 'men of god' as it were, people assumed they could rely on them not to bugger small children.
[editline]03:47PM[/editline]
also there is a passage in the bible which basically implies that you should let your wife and daughter be raped by a gang of men before letting your male guest be raped.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;25358680]True, but those children and their parents never would have put them at risk by placing such trust in the priests, but since they are 'men of god' as it were, people assumed they could rely on them not to bugger small children.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, and they should be able to trust them, but they can't. Something has to be done about it. I remember reading that article where they would ask god for forgiveness and everything would be fine, and I raged so badly. After doing something like that, you shouldn't be allowed to be a priest, you shouldn't even be allowed on the streets.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;25358713]Indeed, and they should be able to trust them, but they can't. Something has to be done about it. I remember reading that article where they would ask god for forgiveness and everything would be fine, and I raged so badly. After doing something like that, you shouldn't be allowed to be a priest, you shouldn't even be allowed on the streets.[/QUOTE]
true. The problem with religion is, if it were at it's optimal state, where everything was good and everyone did what they were supposed to, it would be fine. But a lot of organised religious leaders and high ups tend to take advantage of the trust people put in them. Personally I blame the catholic church.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;25358738]true. The problem with religion is, if it were at it's optimal state, where everything was good and everyone did what they were supposed to, it would be fine. But a lot of organised religious leaders and high ups tend to take advantage of the trust people put in them. Personally I blame the catholic church.[/QUOTE]
It isn't the fault of the religion that people are taking advantage of it.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;25358738]true. The problem with religion is, if it were at it's optimal state, where everything was good and everyone did what they were supposed to, it would be fine. But a lot of organised religious leaders and high ups tend to take advantage of the trust people put in them. Personally I blame the catholic church.[/QUOTE]
I know, but corruption is not the problem only in religion. This happens in the police, military, government and much more.
[QUOTE=Aquaphonic;25358748]It isn't the fault of the religion that people are taking advantage of it.[/QUOTE]
Then there should be another Reformation. They did it in the 15-1600's, they should do it again now
[editline]03:55PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;25358752]I know, but corruption is not the problem only in religion. This happens in the police, military, government and much more.[/QUOTE]
I dislike my countries government, I dislike my local police force, I don't really mind the grunts in the military but I feel the officers are putting them in unnecessary danger. I don't want you to think I'm just hating on religion, I despise corruption in general
[editline]03:55PM[/editline]
for fucks sake I keep double posting
[QUOTE=HeadshotDCS;25357961]Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Holocaust, etc...
Although to be fair, religion is more of a gun. It still needs someone behind the trigger.[/QUOTE]
That's the main problem with religion, not religion itself, but the people who lead it.
Since no one knows the true meaning behind the religious books other than those who wrote them, they can and are interpreted in anyway that benefits the leader(s)'s goals.
There are churches out there that preach tolerance, but they don't make the news because no one wants to read about that. Most Muslims aren't radicals, hell most Muslims aren't even Arab anymore, let alone the stereotypical terrorist we see on the news and in video games and movies.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;25358772]I dislike my countries government, I dislike my local police force, I don't really mind the grunts in the military but I feel the officers are putting them in unnecessary danger. I don't want you to think I'm just hating on religion, I despise corruption in general[/QUOTE]
I never assumed you hated religion, atleast not in an ignorant way. I'm quite in the same mindset as you, buddy.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;25358878]I never assumed you hated religion, atleast not in an ignorant way. I'm quite in the same mindset as you, buddy.[/QUOTE]
cool beans, I just know that the way I come across in religious threads often is as an 'antitheist', but I really hate the triggermen more than the gun, as HeadshotDCS said.
You don't need religion to develop morals. I was raised in pretty much atheist family and the only religion related item that was in my house was a small necklace cross that I didn't even know what it was.
My parents never spoke of god or anything religion related.
And yet I still know what is good or bad. While I won't be punished in afterlife, I will be punished in real life and I think that's much worse.
Also there is still karma, which has nothing to do with religion.
[QUOTE=Jookia;25358676]Yes, through survival instinct from evolution. From this, morals have evolved.
There's no supernatural mythical creatures telling whales to whales to haul tombstones down hills, they missed out on whatever morals the almighty creator gave to humans, yet they're doing fine and almost identical to our principles.[/QUOTE]
What we see is only the effect, we cannot be certain what caused instincts. For instance if a person who had never seen a bus saw me hail it by putting my hand out would they be wrong to assume that my hand stopped the bus? No, because they do not fully know all the facts, just as we don't when it comes to the origins of instinct. We can thus only speculate.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;25354412]You think that religion is the only factor in this?
I've argued with my best friend before, it turned violent but we made up afterward, we ended up feeling terrible but we got over it.
This kid is going to have to live the rest of his life knowing that he killed a person who was very close to him, that he cant make up for it, its just an awful situation, he got caugh up in the moment and he slipped.[/QUOTE] no but its a big factor into why he did it of course
[editline]03:21PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aquaphonic;25358421]All three of the kids were playing with the gun. Religion is a common topic of discussion, especially among close friends.
I would like to point out, however, that religion has no absolute correlation here. Only rumors.
[editline]10:26AM[/editline]
You know seeing that everone.is equal and how to best treat humanity
I don't think so. Explain?[/QUOTE]
Good to see his parents instilled good Christian values in him.
[editline]11:23AM[/editline]
Pretty sure one of the commandments is "Thou shalt not be an atheist or face the wrath of the shotgun of the LORD."
this is what indoctrination will result in.
[QUOTE=JDK721v5;25358528]Another Islamaphobe. What a surprise. So you're saying if religion just disappeared, people wouldn't be fighting each other? You know that 9/11 had nothing to do with religion, right? It was a political attack.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, he's an Islamaphobe because he mentioned Islam and not Christianity as an example.
religion is just insisted upon us.
religion to me in a sense is a way of controlling individuals to a way of thinking decided upon us by others and their set of own rules (the Bible, the 10 Commandments for example) and by hiding/masking all their motives behind a powerful figure (i.e God).
its true that you don't need religion to point out what's either good or bad.
morals, learned at an early age is taught by our "parental figures" and when the need of parents are no longer needed, then society by the use of the "super ego" then acts as a sort of watchdog presiding over us; which coensiding with our conscience are what makes us individuals develop a set of morals and values we have to abide by to be able to live within a society.
religion but plays a small role (or none in many cases) in developing values within an individual
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;25359127]Pretty sure one of the commandments is "Thou shalt not be an atheist or face the wrath of the shotgun of the LORD."[/QUOTE]
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ti_6ReJ1On0/SN3rg_wY09I/AAAAAAAAABY/EcMlsAi56PQ/s320/jules1.jpg[/img]
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you!"
[QUOTE=JDK721v5;25358528]Another Islamaphobe. What a surprise. So you're saying if religion just disappeared, people wouldn't be fighting each other? You know that 9/11 had nothing to do with religion, right? It was a political attack.[/QUOTE]
He was using it as an example. Nobody really thinks that people wouldn't be fighting each other if religion disappeared- It'd just happen less, and could be more easily resolved.
When it's written in a holy book that you must hate and kill a certain group of people, the entire world is sensetive about said book, and parents instill the values from said book in to their children regardless of whether or not they like it, chances are any resulting conflict is [b]not[/b] going to be resolved as easily as it would be if it were purely political.
The article doesn't say he was an atheist.
[QUOTE=revrend_slapaho]
Religion is not worth losing a life over.[/QUOTE]
Read a history book lately?
This is fucked up..
[QUOTE=27X;25360362]Read a history book lately?[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you talking about? Religion isn't worth losing a life over, and the bible is not a fucking historical book.
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