Tea Party counter-protesters join fray in Wisconsin
251 replies, posted
Yes because not being proficient means you cannot read.
Goddammit Glaber. 32 +2+ 44 = 78 you dolt but I guess your brain is as good at math as it is at logic, reasoning, and language skills or anything really. 78% at or above a basic level is not that unheard of anywhere and it certainly doesn't mean less than proficient=illiterate.
As a matter of fact, let's look up the word "proficient"
[quote]adept: having or showing knowledge and skill and aptitude; "adept in handicrafts"; "an adept juggler"; "an expert job"; "a good mechanic"; "a practiced marksman"; "a proficient engineer"; "a lesser-known but no less skillful composer"; "the effect was achieved by skillful retouching" [/quote][quote]An expert; Good at; skilled; fluent; practiced, especially in relation to a task or skill[/quote]Now basic:
[quote]
Often, basics. something that is fundamental or basic; an essential ingredient, principle, procedure, etc.: to learn the basics of [URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/music"]music[/URL]; to get back to basics.[/quote]I'd say being literate is basic as it's fundamental to understanding any language. Maybe if your teacher had been paid enough you wouldn't be such a moron today when it came to basic grammar, spelling, logical tasks, math, or reading comprehension but you probably weren't taught by a union teacher.
Or your parents didn't have enough money to properly teach you or provide services necessarily to the normal development of a human brain because they weren't in a Union and got shit wages.
I don't know, I'm just speculating, but at least I don't take the "speculations" of right wing mouthpieces like Beck or Limbaugh to heart.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28222785]Politifact.com outlines every promise Obama made during his campaign
go read it glaber[/QUOTE]
The Democrat Party Platform as I mentioned is also really great for this stuff. They're made before for every presidential election, so it was last updated in 2008 while Obama was campaigning. It's super easy to read; it has a table of contents with headings like "Investing in American Competitiveness" with some subheadings like "Higher Education", "Science, Technology and Innovation".
And the platform isn't even specific to Obama, all Democrats will follow this 98% of the time.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28223955]So who did you not question? Or are you not a US citizen and unable to vote for US President?[/QUOTE]
Glaber, the simple fact I live outside your country, and actually know more about your history, politics, and media, it's funny to hear that.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;28222962]I never knew collective bargaining rights were so evil.
It just so happens that the states that banned collective bargaining rights (SC, MS, VA, LA, AL) happen to have the lowest overall SAT/ACT scores for their students.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2010458]32% of 8th graders in Wisconsin could read at the 8th grade level as of 2009.[/url]
Seems like the teachers should spend less time protesting and calling in sick, and instead spend more time on making sure their students could read...
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
ETA: I see that Glaber has also posted it.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28226834][URL="http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2010458"]32% of 8th graders in Wisconsin could read at the 8th grade level as of 2009.[/URL]
Seems like the teachers should spend less time protesting and calling in sick, and instead spend more time on making sure their students could read...[/QUOTE]
yes decreasing benefits will make them better at their jobs :downs:
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
that is basically the opposite of reality. it's the exact same mentality that lead to the creation of no child left behind (no one should have to tell you how fundamentally flawed that was) I know it's all romantic to imagine that hard work will overcome all and adversity always makes everyone better, but nope. Teachers need a decent pay and benefits and schools need decent funding in order to function.
The poor reading levels in wisconsin? You will find those same flaws across the entire country, because that ideology of slashing education budgets in order to save pocket change for state governments has ruined the American school system. Our schools are fucked in profound ways. You are espousing punishing teachers for their failure to work effectively in a system that has given them none of the tools they need to succeed.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28226879]yes decreasing benefits will make them better at their jobs :downs:[/quote]
I'm saying they should earn their benefits. They are doing their job poorly. They should either be penalized for it, or fired. Just like any non-union employee would have to deal with for not meeting the requirements of their job.
[quote]that is basically the opposite of reality. it's the exact same mentality that lead to the creation of no child left behind (no one should have to tell you how fundamentally flawed that was) I know it's all romantic to imagine that hard work will overcome all and adversity always makes everyone better, but nope. Teachers need a decent pay and benefits and schools need decent funding in order to function.[/quote]
I absolutely agree No Child Left Behind is bad legislation. It's entirely backwards. I've thought that since high school. The schools that struggle need more help, not less.
[quote]The poor reading levels in wisconsin? You will find those same flaws across the entire country, because that ideology of slashing education budgets in order to save pocket change for state governments has ruined the American school system. Our schools are fucked in profound ways.[/QUOTE]
Why not allow schools to privatize, and merely have the Dept of Education be the group that standardizes the study material? Private schools universally have higher scores and better standards of learning and safety. Just standardize the lesson plans and the text books, and you are good to go. And teachers will have to actually make the grade themselves in order to maintain employment.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28222471]Obama ran on an undefined platform of "Hope and Change" and won because of that. We're only now just learning what that change really is.[/QUOTE]
he won because it would fucking make me happy that's why and everyone did me a big favour
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227021]Why not allow schools to privatize, and merely have the Dept of Education be the group that standardizes the study material? Private schools universally have higher scores and better standards of learning and safety. Just standardize the lesson plans and the text books, and you are good to go. And teachers will have to actually make the grade themselves in order to maintain employment.[/QUOTE]
But you have to pay for private school
[QUOTE=thisispain;28227072]he won because it would fucking make me happy that's why and everyone did me a big favour[/QUOTE]
I think he won because the majority of the population (myself included) was tired of the old guys with the same rhetoric that happened to have an (R) after their name. Obama had an all new rhetoric.
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28227087]But you have to pay for private school[/QUOTE]
You have to pay for public school, too. Gotta pay for books, gym uniforms, parking spots, and that is on top of the taxes that go from your paycheck to pay for it, regardless if anyone in your household is attending.
Fuck, I spent $60 on a yearbook my senior year, only to find full page ads for hot tubs and home mortgages in the pages. I was pissed.
so more knowledge will go to less people
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227092]You have to pay for public school, too.[/QUOTE]
Mostly through taxes
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227092]
You have to pay for public school, too. Gotta pay for books, gym uniforms, parking spots, and that is on top of the taxes that go from your paycheck to pay for it, regardless if anyone in your household is attending.
Fuck, I spent $60 on a yearbook my senior year, only to find full page ads for hot tubs and home mortgages in the pages. I was pissed.[/QUOTE]
Have you compared the prices of public school vs private school at all?
You're bitching about spending $60 on a book. Yeah have fun spending thousands of dollars per year to go to a private school.
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;28227220]Have you compared the prices of public school vs private school at all?
You're bitching about spending $60 on a book. Yeah have fun spending thousands of dollars per year to go to a private school.[/QUOTE]
I went to private school through the 3rd grade. It fostered my interest in reading and math (but not science, because it was a Christian school). By 5th grade, I was reading at a high school level.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227021]I'm saying they should earn their benefits. They are doing their job poorly. They should either be penalized for it, or fired. Just like any non-union employee would have to deal with for not meeting the requirements of their job.[/QUOTE]
This sounds all well and good but it won't work like that. People need everything they can get to get by in our economy. Taking away benefits that they rely on won't make them work harder, it will make them find a different damn job and it will alienate any new potential hires.
And let me reiterate, the issue isn't that "they aren't working hard enough". The issue is that the schools they work in aren't given the funding they need. Hard work won't make new textbooks appear, hard work won't decrease class size, hard work won't repair archaic curriculum set in place by uninvolved school boards, hard work won't make new teachers appear in understaffed schools, and hard work won't make school supplies appear in the teacher's classrooms.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227021]Why not allow schools to privatize, and merely have the Dept of Education be the group that standardizes the study material? Private schools universally have higher scores and better standards of learning and safety. Just standardize the lesson plans and the text books, and you are good to go.[/QUOTE]
oh, well this is easy to respond to, ahem,
it's because poor families will be fucked
never, ever, for ever and ever, until the sun swells to a red giant and consumes the earth in nuclear fire, until it dies and leaves a brown dwarf drifting through the cosmos unseen and useless, a husk of it's former self, until the heat death of the universe, in which all atomic activity in the hearts of stars dies out and, in the absence of heat, all chemical reactions stop and the corpses of stars and planets, composed only of unreactive heavy elements, like so many specks of dust, drift out into the eternal nothingness, will running a school in an impoverished inner-city neighborhood populated by the disenfranchised and parentless ever be a feasible commercial venture
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
i'm not trying to be snarky or hyperbolic, that is the truth of the situation with as little gloss as I can put on it
My finger slipped, I apologize. I meant to give you a winner ribbon for that awesome description of the end of time.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227240]I went to private school through the 3rd grade. It fostered my interest in reading and math (but not science, because it was a Christian school). By 5th grade, I was reading at a high school level.[/QUOTE]
I went to a public school where the teachers are actually paid pretty well in comparison to other teachers and I was reading Lord of the Rings in fifth grade. So private schools aren't just magically better.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227273]My finger slipped, I apologize. I meant to give you a winner ribbon for that awesome description of the end of time.[/QUOTE]
i appreciate that i like debating because it gives me chance to write me words pretty
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227273]My finger slipped, I apologize. I meant to give you a winner ribbon for that awesome description of the end of time.[/QUOTE]
Re-rate, mate.
[editline]22nd February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227240]I went to private school through the 3rd grade. It fostered my interest in reading and math [B](but not science, because it was a Christian school)[/B]. By 5th grade, I was reading at a high school level.[/QUOTE]
This is why privatizing schools is a bad plan.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28227312]Re-rate, mate.[/quote]
Ah yes, I just saw that. When was that available? Is it because he edited?
[quote]This is why privatizing schools is a bad plan.[/QUOTE]
I was joking. But I don't recall much science being taught in 1st, 2nd or 3rd grades. I remember reading, learning how to write in cursive, and swallowing a loose tooth during nap time.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227240]I went to private school through the 3rd grade. It fostered my interest in reading and math (but not science, because it was a Christian school). By 5th grade, I was reading at a high school level.[/QUOTE]
I too went to a private school up until 7th grade. Guess what that cost per year? 6 grand. Then it went up another 2000 with all the uniforms, field trips, supplies and other funding. The teachers were often shitty and didnt like many students. They didn't stop bullies at all. Private schools are over rated snob fests. They're too expensive for them to replace any sort of national system. To suggest privitization of it is naive.
private schools have higher everything because surprise surprise richer people go to private schools and richer people often have better test scores and live in less dense areas
holy shit i didn't think i'd even have to mention that come on
[QUOTE=thisispain;28227375]private schools have higher everything because surprise surprise richer people go to private schools and richer people often have better test scores and live in less dense areas
holy shit i didn't think i'd even have to mention that come on[/QUOTE]
A person's financial ability has little to do with their willingness and ability to learn. An inner city child can do just as well, by simply focusing on doing their work rather than *insert generic example of doing anything but schoolwork*.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227398]A person's financial ability has little to do with their willingness and ability to learn. An inner city child can do just as well, by simply focusing on doing their work rather than *insert generic example of doing anything but schoolwork*.[/QUOTE]
what? this isn't hollywood
[QUOTE=thisispain;28227445]what? this isn't hollywood[/QUOTE]
"Based on a true story."
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227476]"Based on a true story."[/QUOTE]
based on a load of bullshit
poorer families have less access to learning utilities and often put things like eating, and getting through the week above education
what kind of college did you go to because you don't seem to even know basic sociology
Went to Metro State College of Denver to be a pilot, but it got too expensive so I transferred over to Information Technology, and graduated from a community college for it.
Sociologist you ain't
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227398]A person's financial ability has little to do with their willingness and ability to learn. An inner city child can do just as well, by simply focusing on doing their work rather than *insert generic example of doing anything but schoolwork*.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what you've been taught, but hard work and determination doesn't always overcome everything else.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28227398]A person's financial ability has little to do with their willingness and ability to learn. An inner city child can do just as well, by simply focusing on doing their work rather than *insert generic example of doing anything but schoolwork*.[/QUOTE]
This is the real world ridge. Luck plays a part in it and the hardest working poor person can still get fucked early on.
A efficient public education system would be loads better. Other countries are proving this, where as no country can hope to prove that private schools help everyone. Poor people can't go to private schools and would likely just not have any education at all if that was the only system possible.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28227653]This is the real world ridge. Luck plays a part in it and the hardest working poor person can still get fucked early on.
A efficient public education system would be loads better. Other countries are proving this, where as no country can hope to prove that private schools help everyone. Poor people can't go to private schools and would likely just not have any education at all if that was the only system possible.[/QUOTE]
Hit the nail on the head.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28227653]This is the real world ridge. Luck plays a part in it and the hardest working poor person can still get fucked early on.
A efficient public education system would be loads better. Other countries are proving this, where as no country can hope to prove that private schools help everyone. Poor people can't go to private schools and would likely just not have any education at all if that was the only system possible.[/QUOTE]
Luck and discrimination. Institutional racism and sexism are still pretty prevalent.
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